Could NAS be the best indigenous player ever?

[Bluelegs]

In my lifetime:

1. Franklin
2. Goodes
3. McLeod

 

[Sttew]

Polly Farmer anyone?
Arguably ahead of Goodes

Agree 100% but "recency bias" means when we see posts or polls like this they should be based on the AFL era or post 2000 and most definitely not "ever".

 

[wcv1475]

Good player but aren't we at the moment getting a little carried away, just off the top of my head players in my era I have seen go around in no order,
Cyril Rioli
Franklin
Goodes
Gavin Wanganeen
McLeod
Winmar

got a fair way to go before passing them.

 

[Bluelegs]

Agree 100% but "recency bias" means when we see posts or polls like this they should be based on the AFL era or post 2000 and most definitely not "ever".

How many on BigFooty saw him play?

 

[Sttew]

How many on BigFooty saw him play?

I did, but that’s not the point. You can’t say NAS or Buddy or Goodes are the greatest indigenous footballers ever. They may be the best that you have seen.

Leigh Matthews is regarded by many as one of the greatest AFL footballers but most posters know him only as a former coach and media commentator.

 

[Bluelegs]

I did, but that’s not the point. You can’t say NAS or Buddy or Goodes are the greatest indigenous footballers ever. They may be the best that you have seen.

Leigh Matthews is regarded by many as one of the greatest AFL footballers but most posters know him only as a former coach and media commentator.

I agree, I think 'of all time' discussions are moot because of that.

 

[yulong]

I agree, I think 'of all time' discussions are moot because of that.

This argument isn't moot though as NAS is a long way back from the current generation of greats

 

[Upgrayedd]

Agree 100% but "recency bias" means when we see posts or polls like this they should be based on the AFL era or post 2000 and most definitely not "ever".

Completely different games, pace and everything

Would Polly Farmer be as dominant if he was allowed to just grab the ball and dispose of it everytime rather then tapping it? Would Aaron Sandilands just dominate more if he was allowed to grab it and dispose of it cleanly?

Would Polly Farmer be better if guys wern't allowed to just run at him knee's up to try to stop him?

Would Farmer be more dominant if he didnt hurt his knee badly in the first couple of games at geelong? You would think he would of played 100 odd more

It wasn't a professional comp back then, And I dont take that away from any of the guys playing in the 70's, 80's either. I like the idea of talking about how guys would adapt, But I also dont like the idea guys wouldn't adapt, Even though dudes were probably smoking cigarettes after a time trial in the 70's to help increase lung capacity.


NAS has absolutely the talent to be one of the best AFL players ever, He's played the second best game I've seen (First being Jack Viney in the same game) on par with Martins 2020 GF, Ablett in 2011, Ablett Snr in 1989 and Cornes in 2008 against Mitchell where he held him under 20 disposals and absolutely dogwalked Mitchell, punishing him kicking 3 goals directly on him and Causing Mitchell to have one of his worst games ever

 

[Sttew]

Completely different games, pace and everything

Would Polly Farmer be as dominant if he was allowed to just grab the ball and dispose of it everytime rather then tapping it? Would Aaron Sandilands just dominate more if he was allowed to grab it and dispose of it cleanly?

Would Polly Farmer be better if guys wern't allowed to just run at him knee's up to try to stop him?

Would Farmer be more dominant if he didnt hurt his knee badly in the first couple of games at geelong? You would think he would of played 100 odd more

It wasn't a professional comp back then, And I dont take that away from any of the guys playing in the 70's, 80's either. I like the idea of talking about how guys would adapt, But I also dont like the idea guys wouldn't adapt, Even though dudes were probably smoking cigarettes after a time trial in the 70's to help increase lung capacity.

All hypotheticals. What you are saying is that nobody before the professional era can be considered as a great because of this and that?

What we do know is that Polly Farmer revolutionised the game by turning handball, which was rarely used, into a weapon. Maybe it was the first knee injury that forced him to do that. The game wasn't professional back then. We all know that. But Polly dominated in VFL and WAFL and his contribution in changing the game was unique. How many modern champions have truly revolutionised the way the game is played?

 

[Lunchtime]

NAS doesn't get near the Krakouer brothers. Imagine them playing in this era. Fast, athletic, run all day and magic around goals.

 

[La Vache]

Hmmm I see enough time has passed now for Peter Matera

Peter Matera

Age

57

Ht

183cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

14.0

5star

HB

4.9

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.6

3star

G

0.6

3star

to become underrated.

 

[Handsuper47]

He's got a long way to go, he's 23 right now and by that time Buddy Franklin had a 100+ goal season and 23 was the age Adam Goodes won a Brownlow. He needs to do something similar soon while being absolute dynamite in the finals like those two were.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

All hypotheticals. What you are saying is that nobody before the professional era can be considered as a great because of this and that?

What we do know is that Polly Farmer revolutionised the game by turning handball, which was rarely used, into a weapon. Maybe it was the first knee injury that forced him to do that. The game wasn't professional back then. We all know that. But Polly dominated in VFL and WAFL and his contribution in changing the game was unique. How many modern champions have truly revolutionised the way the game is played?

As I said before, being ahead of your time or revolutionising an aspect doesn't mean youre the greatest of all time.

Its said that Polly struggled as a Coach, which is something you find in many of the super professionals of the game throughout history, Voss, Buckley etc. because they expect that from every player, which doesn't happen.

It seems Polly's professionalism and ability to be ahead of the pack is why he shone then, but from say 2000 onwards he'd be just another above average player, and as was also pointed out, at 6'3", wouldn't even get a game as 1st ruck.

I doubt he'd see which way Goodes went.

 

[Sttew]

As I said before, being ahead of your time or revolutionising an aspect doesn't mean youre the greatest of all time.

No, but it sets him apart. His CV alone is remarkable:

• VFL Premiership player: (1963)
• 5× WANFL premiership player: (1956, 1958, 1959, 1969, 1971)
• 3× Sandover Medal: (1956, 1957, 1960)
• 2× Carji Greeves Medal: (1963, 1964)
• 7× East Perth Best and Fairest: (1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1960, 1961)
• West Perth Best and Fairest: (1969)
• 2× Simpson Medal (grand final): (1959, 1969)
• Geelong captain: (1965–1967)
• Geelong Team of the Century
• West Perth Team of the Century
• East Perth Post War Team of the Century
• Tassie Medal: (1956)
• National Football Carnival Championship: 1961
• 3× All-Australian team: (1956, 1958, 1961)
• 2× Simpson Medal (interstate): (1956, 1961)
• Australian Football Hall of Fame – Legend Status (inaugural)
• AFL Team of the Century
• Western Australian Team of the Century – vice-captain
• Indigenous Team of the Century – captain

He didn't in a Brownlow but came second in 63 behind Bobby Skilton.

And yes he wasn't a great coach probably because he had a weak list of players and was more interested in punting (and I'm not talking about kicking a football)

 

[Seeds]

Do people forget how good Goodes actually was?
I mean seriously, he was the most versatile footballer to hit the scene for a very long time. His battles with Dean Cox were legendary.
Did it in big games and was a consistent champion for well over 15 years.

Guys like Daicos and NAS have a long way to go before being mentioned in the same conversation and then you have Buddy Franklin.

Versatility is overrated. Franklin, mcleod and p.matera were better.

 

[PCORF]

Nas, Kozzie, Rankine, 3 genuine guns.

Fair way to climb to reach Goodes level, superstar. But Nas could.

Not sure about Rankine. He has really struggled at times this season.

But NAS and Pickett have been very good this season, esp Pickett.

Best indigenous players of all times are McLeod, Franklin, Goodes, S. Burgoyne, Betts, M. Long. Also G. Farmar, Wanganeen, C. Rioli.

 

[Lunchtime]

Not sure about Rankine. He has really struggled at times this season.

But NAS and Pickett have been very good this season, esp Pickett.

Best indigenous players of all times are McLeod, Franklin, Goodes, S. Burgoyne, Betts, M. Long. Also G. Farmar, Wanganeen, C. Rioli.

I reckon Michael Long is somewhat overrated. Don't come at me, hear me out.

190 games
143 goals
2x Premiership player (1993 & 2000)
1x Norm Smith Medal (1993)
2x All Australian (1988 & 1995)
4th in Brownlow Medal (1995)
Brownlow Votes - 58
Australian Football Hall of Fame (2007)

Good record but there is a few indigenous players that have passed him in my opinion.

G. Farmer, Franklin, Jim & Phil Krakouer, Eddie Betts, Andrew McLeod, Adam Goodes....all ahead of Long, in my opinion.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

No, but it sets him apart. His CV alone is remarkable:

• VFL Premiership player: (1963)
• 5× WANFL premiership player: (1956, 1958, 1959, 1969, 1971)
• 3× Sandover Medal: (1956, 1957, 1960)
• 2× Carji Greeves Medal: (1963, 1964)
• 7× East Perth Best and Fairest: (1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1959, 1960, 1961)
• West Perth Best and Fairest: (1969)
• 2× Simpson Medal (grand final): (1959, 1969)
• Geelong captain: (1965–1967)
• Geelong Team of the Century
• West Perth Team of the Century
• East Perth Post War Team of the Century
• Tassie Medal: (1956)
• National Football Carnival Championship: 1961
• 3× All-Australian team: (1956, 1958, 1961)
• 2× Simpson Medal (interstate): (1956, 1961)
• Australian Football Hall of Fame – Legend Status (inaugural)
• AFL Team of the Century
• Western Australian Team of the Century – vice-captain
• Indigenous Team of the Century – captain

He didn't in a Brownlow but came second in 63 behind Bobby Skilton.

And yes he wasn't a great coach probably because he had a weak list of players and was more interested in punting (and I'm not talking about kicking a football)

Of coarse it does, in the 60's.

Its a great CV, but half of it is irrelevant to the modern footballer, drafted at 18, unable to play 5 seasons of State league seniors, too young to be in their clubs team of the century.

Take all that off of Polly and he's a..
1x VFL Premiership player
Geelong Captain 65-67
2x GFC B&F
3x All Australian
Indigenous team of century
AFL HoF Legend

Compared to Goodes
2x Brownlows
2x AFL Premiership player
Sydney Captain 09-11
3x SYD B&F
4x All Australian
Indigenous team of the century
3x club leading goal kicker
Declined AFL HoF

Or Andrew Mcleod
2x AFL Premiership player
2x Norm Smith medallist
3x ADL B&F
5X All Australian
Indigenous team of the century
AFL HoF


We're talking 'of all time'.

 

[Sttew]

Of coarse it does, in the 60's.

Its a great CV, but half of it is irrelevant to the modern footballer, drafted at 18, unable to play 5 seasons of State league seniors, too young to be in their clubs team of the century.

Take all that off of Polly and he's a..
1x VFL Premiership player
Geelong Captain 65-67
2x GFC B&F
3x All Australian
Indigenous team of century
AFL HoF Legend

Compared to Goodes
2x Brownlows
2x AFL Premiership player
Sydney Captain 09-11
3x SYD B&F
4x All Australian
Indigenous team of the century
3x club leading goal kicker
Declined AFL HoF

Or Andrew Mcleod
2x AFL Premiership player
2x Norm Smith medallist
3x ADL B&F
5X All Australian
Indigenous team of the century
AFL HoF


We're talking 'of all time'.

I don’t even think Goodes was that good a footballer.

But whatever. I don’t know how old you are but I can guess you don’t rate anyone pre AFL (1990)

It is so much easier to be good in the modern game because footballers are paid to be good and aren’t expected to hold another job. They have assistant coaches and medics at their beck and call and the science of football is so much more sophisticated. Now imagine how much better a Polly Farmer might have been if he had access to all those things

 

[WhyAmIHere]

I’ve never understood why Maurice Rioli Snr isn’t discussed in the top 5 or so. Longevity in the VFL probably hurts his claim on the top 3 (Micheals, Farmer, Cable) - but was a seriously good footballer who performed on the biggest stages.

 

[Lunchtime]

I’ve never understood why Maurice Rioli Snr isn’t discussed in the top 5 or so. Longevity in the VFL probably hurts his claim on the top 3 (Micheals, Farmer, Cable) - but was a seriously good footballer who performed on the biggest stages.

WAFL
117 games (95 goals)
WAFL Premiership player (1980)
2x Simpson medal BoG GF (1980-81)
1x Simpson medal BoG SoO (1983)

VFL
118 games (80 goals)
2x Richmond Best & Fairest (1982-83)
1x Norm Smith medal (1982)
3x VFL Team of Year (1983, 1986 & 1988)
1983: Runner-up Brownlow medal

Maurice along with the Krakouer brothers lit up the WAFL in the mid 1970s and early 1980s, then headed to Victoria in the VFL and were brilliant there.

 

[Daka]

I don't see anyone being better than Franklin.

 

[WhyAmIHere]

WAFL
117 games (95 goals)
WAFL Premiership player (1980)
2x Simpson medal BoG GF (1980-81)
1x Simpson medal BoG SoO (1983)

VFL
118 games (80 goals)
2x Richmond Best & Fairest (1982-83)
1x Norm Smith medal (1982)
3x VFL Team of Year (1983, 1986 & 1988)
1983: Runner-up Brownlow medal

Maurice along with the Krakouer brothers lit up the WAFL in the mid 1970s and early 1980s, then headed to Victoria in the VFL and were brilliant there.

A real trail blazer in that era - often unfairly neglected in these conversations.

 

[Lunchtime]

A real trail blazer in that era - often unfairly neglected in these conversations.

Exactly. Rioli (or the Krakouer's) should never be forgotten. But as they played 35+ yrs ago...its a case of out of sight and out of mind. Buy they would do well in today's game.

 

[Lunchtime]