Could we see a super league start for australian footy?

Carringbush2010

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Back when State of Origin was a thing, Vic supporters got behind that. Not to the same extent as Rugby League SOO of course, but it was a reasonable level of support.



Agreed. Don’t the AFL own the club brands?



Or even a University? Nah, those clubs are too far gone. If the comp had any new teams then they’d be established in places like Narre Warren ...

... or even Frankston, Werribee or Port Melbourne. What you’ve described is basically the VFL as it exists today. Most of the the decent AFL players would have gone to the super league enticed by $$$.

And of course Victoria would still have team(s) in the super league - just as they have teams in Rugby and A-League.



I’d imagine the stadiums in Perth, Adelaide, together with Giants, and Metricon would have tight contracts expecting AFL league games to be played there, and were a condition of funding for the stadium construction / renovation.



I think you and I have described exactly the same plan.
The AFL don't own the clubs brands, they own the licences............. that would mean new clubs like Ade for example would have a fight on their hands to breakaway from the current AFL to a super league and keep their "brand". Where as clubs that are vic based wouldn't even bother joining the break away, however big state clubs like South Freo or a Norwood for example may look at it or stay at state level. Again those state leagues I presume would own those clubs licences.

For vic clubs to join this new league there is disincentive to do so, I'd imagine the equity would be sured up better than the current and that would mean more travel. For example would you as a fan be prepared to follow them in another league where you have to travel more? Maybe but the majority I doubt so therefore the clubs won't look at it. That's just one issue by the way.

For this super league to entice the best vic players from home would take more than $$$, it would take a guaranteed stability that it's gonna work. If you're one of the best players in the league and are vic are you gonna chance a league that may go belly up or stay on the good wicket you're on at home?

In a nutshell forget current vic AFL clubs breaking away, there's no upside for them unless the $ overrides all and that would take billions. However for all non vic states there's low hanging fruit as you previously pointed out like fixture, less clubs, equal travel, rotating GF etc.

The super league wouldn't have to duke it out with the AFL re stadiums outside of vic if the AFL essentially went back to being the VFL before it became nationalised. And really on face value that would be the only way this would work, the new "VFL" would essentially be biggest drawer of bums and tv ratings given the population differences and the super league could co exist with it given there'd be enough market outside of vic.
 

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76woodenspooners

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The AFL don't own the clubs brands, they own the licences............. that would mean new clubs like Ade for example would have a fight on their hands to breakaway from the current AFL to a super league and keep their "brand". Where as clubs that are vic based wouldn't even bother joining the break away, however big state clubs like South Freo or a Norwood for example may look at it or stay at state level. Again those state leagues I presume would own those clubs licences.
The AFL itself has shown that it’s possible to grab a state based club when it suits and is possible (Port Adelaide) and when it’s not to simply create a new club from scratch (Giants, Suns).

A super league could just as easy create new clubs when it it becomes difficult / inconvenient to co-opt existing ones.

For vic clubs to join this new league there is disincentive to do so, I'd imagine the equity would be sured up better than the current and that would mean more travel. For example would you as a fan be prepared to follow them in another league where you have to travel more? Maybe but the majority I doubt so therefore the clubs won't look at it. That's just one issue by the way.
Current VFL teams don’t have to travel much, and yet how many supporters follow those clubs?

People will always be attracted to the best competition, hence why WCE / Freo have higher attendances than the WAFL teams. Ditto SANFL.

For this super league to entice the best vic players from home would take more than $$$, it would take a guaranteed stability that it's gonna work. If you're one of the best players in the league and are vic are you gonna chance a league that may go belly up or stay on the good wicket you're on at home?
The AFL were able to entice Israel Folau and Carmichael Hunt. I’m sure the AFL could just as easily be on the receiving end of that?

In a nutshell forget current vic AFL clubs breaking away, there's no upside for them unless the $ overrides all and that would take billions. However for all non vic states there's low hanging fruit as you previously pointed out like fixture, less clubs, equal travel, rotating GF etc.
Well, the South Melbourne Swans broke away to Sydney, and Fitzroy ‘merged’ with Brisbane. Pretty much every other attempt at relocation / merger has failed, so you’re probably right.

That just means that a super league would simply create its own teams.

The super league wouldn't have to duke it out with the AFL re stadiums outside of vic if the AFL essentially went back to being the VFL before it became nationalised. And really on face value that would be the only way this would work, the new "VFL" would essentially be biggest drawer of bums and tv ratings given the population differences and the super league could co exist with it given there'd be enough market outside of vic.
If the super league is cashed up (The AFL are a AUD $1 billion a year industry competition wide - Amazon globally generates that much profit in only 3 days) then the ‘new’ VFL would simply become as relevant as the current VFL, SANFL and WAFL currently are today - and that’s because the best players would follow the money.
 

Carringbush2010

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The AFL itself has shown that it’s possible to grab a state based club when it suits and is possible (Port Adelaide) and when it’s not to simply create a new club from scratch (Giants, Suns).

A super league could just as easy create new clubs when it it becomes difficult / inconvenient to co-opt existing ones.
That's ok so long as it gets a supporter base. I'll ask you a question, what made the WC inception so successful regarding supporter base? Because WC represented that base in the highest profile comp at the time. Same for Ade and Freo it gave sa and wa representation in the big league. As far as Port goes if I am correct I believe they applied for a licence.

Current VFL teams don’t have to travel much, and yet how many supporters follow those clubs?

People will always be attracted to the best competition, hence why WCE / Freo have higher attendances than the WAFL teams. Ditto SANFL.
Well you've just answered your own question, the VFL now is not the top comp. If we had a super league alongside the AFL the only feasible way would be to go back to the original vic clubs and call the current AFL minus it's breakaway clubs the VFL. You're forgetting the largest market is Vic and the clubs aren't going to break away because it's not in the best interest of their income - the fans.

The AFL were able to entice Israel Folau and Carmichael Hunt. I’m sure the AFL could just as easily be on the receiving end of that?
The AFL is / was already a stable comp so I'll moot this point.

Well, the South Melbourne Swans broke away to Sydney, and Fitzroy ‘merged’ with Brisbane. Pretty much every other attempt at relocation / merger has failed, so you’re probably right.
Completely irrelevant scenario's, the only way South were going to survive was to head north. Same the Roy's they weren't going to survive on their own, they were taken over / moved out of necessity, not being a rebel and joining a break away league.

If the super league is cashed up (The AFL are a AUD $1 billion a year industry competition wide - Amazon globally generates that much profit in only 3 days) then the ‘new’ VFL would simply become as relevant as the current VFL, SANFL and WAFL currently are today - and that’s because the best players would follow the money.
This is purely hypothetical and it would take an insane amount of money to vacuum all of the best players to a breakaway in order to entice the fans to jump ship.

Even if that came to pass it would be years or even decades before the capital outlay were redeemed IF it were redeemed. Even if Amazon were to take this on they'd soon learn the vic wouldn't be viable unless they poured that much capital that the best of the best from vic would jump ship no matter what.
 

76woodenspooners

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Even if that came to pass it would be years or even decades before the capital outlay were redeemed IF it were redeemed.
Every year in the AFL a billion dollars goes in (TV rights, ticket sales, merchandise sales, sponsorship, etc) and a billion dollars goes out (player and support staff wages, infrastructure, etc)

I wouldn’t imagine that it would take much to tip the balance of the scales, particularly when there are many structural inefficiencies in the AFL.

Anybody doing this as a rogue enterprise would need to take a very long term view of it (> 20 years) and there are organisations who do think about things with such a long term view.

Even if Amazon were to take this on they'd soon learn the vic wouldn't be viable unless they poured that much capital that the best of the best from vic would jump ship no matter what.
I think we’re largely in agreement ...

... it’s just that I’m assuming that somebody would pour in enough capital to entice the best players from all over Australia. It’d be a pointless exercise unless they did.
 

Carringbush2010

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Every year in the AFL a billion dollars goes in (TV rights, ticket sales, merchandise sales, sponsorship, etc) and a billion dollars goes out (player and support staff wages, infrastructure, etc)

I wouldn’t imagine that it would take much to tip the balance of the scales, particularly when there are many structural inefficiencies in the AFL.

Anybody doing this as a rogue enterprise would need to take a very long term view of it (> 20 years) and there are organisations who do think about things with such a long term view.



I think we’re largely in agreement ...

... it’s just that I’m assuming that somebody would pour in enough capital to entice the best players from all over Australia. It’d be a pointless exercise unless they did.
Yeah I think we agree that it's pie in the sky stuff even though possible.
 

Ricketz

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I'm not talking rugby league/world series cricket style, but rather similar to the Indian premier league soccer.
There's quite a few clubs at state level that are fed up with the way the AFL has treated them, so could we see them break away and form their own national league, filled with mainly the "coulda been" 22+ yr olds, with a smattering of older types who've retired?
The VFL?

No. Cost too much.
 

RoarLike44In24

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The whole concept is a fantasy. No-one in Australia has enough money to create a rival code given how successful the AFL is. You'd need someone like an Arab Sheikh or a large multinational - why would either care about a code that is limited to 1 country and their expats? Much easier just to join the queue of sponsors waiting to be the next major sponsor of the current product.

No, a breakaway league would just be a financial mess and would prove destructive to the sport itself.


The main reason why people create this fantasy is becsuse it's nice to think of the AFL being brought to its knees so all interstate supporters can rejoice in the fact that the AFL shouldn't have been so Vic-centric.

The AFL controls every facet of it's competition. Administrator's don't last long if they openly rebel. If you are waiting for your club's administration to start breakaway talks you'll be waiting forever. They'll be turfed within days.


No, the only people the AFL cannot control are the fans. You turn up, you pay the money, you buy the newspapers and you buy the sponsor's merch/services.

Money talks the loudest and it's the only language the AFL execs speak fluently.


It is much more likely (albeit still unlikely) to be successful in reforming the existing comp than breaking away.

If interstate fans hate the inequality so much (as well as the state of the game) then don't go. Gold Coast has taken a leading role in this but their mistake is that they are not organised so no-one is hearing their discontent. They love their club but they are firm in their desire to see a more equitable comp.

If interstate fans organise themselves they could expedite the changes they seek. If Adelaide and West Coast's etc crowds all of a sudden spiral, memberships go down, sponsors losing revenue from an organised boycott (AFL sponsors not club sponsors) etc etc the AFL will at first get their media hounds to try and shame you, then they will try and lure new members in through various means but once all of that fails and you hold out, you may then get real action.

Until then you paying your money is all the AFL really cares about.

Buuuuuut, as with most things in the AFL, fan cooperation is always stopped by tribalism. Notice how umpiring sucks? How rule changes are hugely unpopular? The AFL gives zero ****s about you or your 80s nostalgia. They know that they can do this **** and not only will people turn up, but it'll be defended by teams that benefit from it.

When a team wins through controversial umpiring its always "shut up you sooks" blah blah blah. Until they lose by controversial umpiring. Its a vicious cycle which basically eruots into a forum ****fight and gives the AFL zero pressure to fix it, but rather implement ******** ideas like more umpires.

We defend our clubs for short term goals like defending our right to win matches- we dont want to admit umpiring helped up win matches even though it doesnt change the result. By doing this we forego longer term goals like helping to improve umpiring standards. Rinse and repeat.

TL;DR

-Super league wont work for variety of reasons
- Better to reform what we have now.
- AFL controls administrator's and clubs, only group they can never control is fans.
- Organised boycotts of games, merch and league sponsor's products/services will wake up money-oriented AFL. Emphasis on organised.
- won't happen because tribalism prevents fans from ever agreeing on anything.
 

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The AFL for all intents and purposes is the Super League.

Its just that the AFL got it wrong when it didnt cull, relocate or merge teams back in 1990 when it was established.
 
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Monkey King

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A Super League would be great and a much more fairer for all teams concerned that were a part of it.
So, 2 teams from Adelaide and 2 from Melbourne then? Not a chance this would work. Leaves a competing league with so much market it would like a pig in ****.

Its just that the AFL got it wrong when it didnt cull, relocate or merge teams back in 1990 when it was established.
This football league wasn’t “established” in 1990. It was the same league as in 1989. The details are the very reasons no one got anything wrong. Left up to simpletons who profess to know better, the world would be broken.
 

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So, 2 teams from Adelaide and 2 from Melbourne then? Not a chance this would work. Leaves a competing league with so much market it would like a pig in ****.
It would probably be 4 teams in Melbourne, I would be looking at I never said two.

As I said just earlier, effectively what the AFL is a Super League, it just didnt, merge/relocate/cull teams in 1991 when it was established.
 

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The only (unlikely) way it could happen, in my view, is at the next rights signing a new party be it amazon, google etc take over as Foxtel have no cash left to bid up the amount.
It is more likely they would just outbid Channel 7 and take what exists already. Then they'd start telling the league what they want re rules, scoring etc.

They may sign up some teams and break away, but it is very expensive in a small TV market to do so.

All the clubs would never be able to agree on anything, so some would stay, and one comp would consume the other. Eventually.
 

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Monkey King

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It would probably be 4 teams in Melbourne, I would be looking at I never said two.

As I said just earlier, effectively what the AFL is a Super League, it just didnt, merge/relocate/cull teams in 1991 when it was established.
Actually, you listed a format that included only two Melbourne clubs - Richmond and Collingwood. I was commenting on that format.

The world did not begin with your birth, just as this football league was not established when your club was. In the details of this history lie the reasons for why not culling most Vic clubs and going national all at once, was not a mistake.

IMO the national league should’ve been established as a new joint venture between the state leagues, with the strongest clubs from each fielding a team in the new competition. Norwood and Port for example. Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood. East Fremantle, West Perth etc.
 

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I would hope the Crows got in would be an awesome competition.

Teams from NT, Tassie and Canberra would make the game truly national.

I am confident that is how it will be one day, whether it is 25 years from now or 50 years from now, the number of teams in Victoria will diminish over time.

History suggests this will be the case. Look at the teams in the various WAFL, SANFL and VFL in the initial period and look at the ones that folded. There is enough evidence to suggest that it will happen.

About 25 years ago there was a team Fitzroy in the AFL.
Victoria is not only so much bigger than SA, but growing way more rapidly, both as a percentage and just raw numbers, there is no way more heartland teams leave Victoria. Darwin and Hobart are just there to fill some geographical quota but suburbs in Melbourne are way bigger than them combined.
 

juss

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I'm not talking rugby league/world series cricket style, but rather similar to the Indian premier league soccer.
There's quite a few clubs at state level that are fed up with the way the AFL has treated them, so could we see them break away and form their own national league, filled with mainly the "coulda been" 22+ yr olds, with a smattering of older types who've retired?
Less talent and less money, and no strong government endorsements or commercial contracts with stadiums how could it possibly succeed?

*it won't happen
 

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Actually, you listed a format that included only two Melbourne clubs - Richmond and Collingwood. I was commenting on that format.

The world did not begin with your birth, just as this football league was not established when your club was. In the details of this history lie the reasons for why not culling most Vic clubs and going national all at once, was not a mistake.

IMO the national league should’ve been established as a new joint venture between the state leagues, with the strongest clubs from each fielding a team in the new competition. Norwood and Port for example. Carlton, Essendon and Collingwood. East Fremantle, West Perth etc.
No I didnt. If you can show where I only listed just two teams, then you can comment.

Dont be so precious. If you think that Norwood and Port should have been allowed entry in 1991 and that selection may upset me you are sadly mistaken, that would be fine and in fact it is a shame that wasnt the case and I could go on about why that is the case. Which actual teams are or not selected is irrelevant it is not the topic of conversation. Its about establishing a super league.

Its adorable that you want to include Carlton. Just so that yo know, if a Super League started today and if it was based on existing teams in the AFL competition, Carlton would never get in. Most neutral supporters would agree.

Had in 1991 the AFL established one we would have far superior product than what we have today.
 

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Victoria is not only so much bigger than SA, but growing way more rapidly, both as a percentage and just raw numbers, there is no way more heartland teams leave Victoria. Darwin and Hobart are just there to fill some geographical quota but suburbs in Melbourne are way bigger than them combined.
We are talking about establishing a Super League. Not the abolishment of AFL.. Their still would be a VFL for Victorian teams that are not in the Super League to participate in.

The selection and establishment of a Super League is about the AFL product spreading across the country in all parts appealing to a wider focus.
 

GROTTO

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Just trim the fat, cut the AFL out of the picture, appoint new administration and get back to being a sport.
The AFLPA would never want that, there is so much money today in AFL and having it professional is what will line their pockets.
 

footyfan78

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As I said just earlier, effectively what the AFL is a Super League, it just didnt, merge/relocate/cull teams in 1991 when it was established.
Completely an utterly wrong. Super League was a money grab by Murdoch that did not work and he killed off Super League as soon as he realised he ****** up and would not make money of it he wanted. AFL is simply renaming the premier league name of our game which previously was still keeping the Victorian in the name of the league. South Melbourne relocated to Sydney in early 1980's. Then Eagles and Bears in league from other states, for 1987. It started to seem silly that if one of them won premiership soon to have them be named premiership team of Victorian Football League.
Would be misleading of how the league was expanding way beyond the Victorian border. We established you did not follow how it expanded by your posts to try to re-write history. Weird posts by you.
 
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GROTTO

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Completely an utterly wrong. Super League was a money grab by Murdoch that did not work and he killed off Super League as soon as he realised he ****** up and would not make money of it he wanted. AFL is simply renaming the premier league name of our game which previously was still keeping the Victorian in the name of the league but with South Melbourne relocated to Sydney and Eagles and Bears in league a few years it started to seem silly that if one of them won premiership soon to have them be named premiership team of Victorian Football League would be misleading of how the league was expanding way beyond the Victorian border. We established you did not follow how it expanded by your posts to try to re-write history.'Weird posts by you.
Paragraphs should be your friend for starters.

Im sorry your post is a little incoherent to understand.

Im sure youre right. Dont worry. :)
 

footyfan78

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Paragraphs should be your friend for starters.

Im sorry your post is a little incoherent to understand.

Im sure youre right. Dont worry. :)
I'm not worried mate, I know you do not have a clue from previous posts.
 

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I'd like someone to try. Might wake the big boys at AFL house up a bit. Let them know they aren't invincible
 

footyfan78

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I'd like someone to try. Might wake the big boys at AFL house up a bit. Let them know they aren't invincible
Be good to see it in some ways. ******* sick of likes of droopey corporate dipshits like Gil doing more bad for the game than good.
 

Freshwater

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AFL often forgets its our game( the people) not theirs (the private school boys club). They think they’ve built this league up to where it is. It is/was the greatest sport on earth, and we own it not them. As soon as they go too far they’ll get put straight back in their place.
 
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