Could we see a super league start for australian footy?

4THAWN

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I hoped someone would step up and take Auskick away, it's an absolute joke and the standard of our game is suffering because of it, Auskick teaches the kids nothing, sure little Johnny might get to kick a goal, but he won't touch the thing in u12s.
auskick gets kids to start playing footy in the first place, if there was no auskick there would be a huge drop off in kids playing footy at young ages.
 

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greatwhiteshark

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AFL often forgets its our game( the people) not theirs (the private school boys club). They think they’ve built this league up to where it is. It is/was the greatest sport on earth, and we own it not them. As soon as they go too far they’ll get put straight back in their place.
Christ what do you call to far? The sport has changed completely. You could barely call it Aussie rules footy now. In fact they don't they call it AFL.
 

greatwhiteshark

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auskick gets kids to start playing footy in the first place, if there was no auskick there would be a huge drop off in kids playing footy at young ages.
Rubbish, we never had auskick when I started in the mid 70's. Plenty still played footy.
 

Monkey King

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No I didnt. If you can show where I only listed just two teams, then you can comment.

Dont be so precious. If you think that Norwood and Port should have been allowed entry in 1991 and that selection may upset me you are sadly mistaken, that would be fine and in fact it is a shame that wasnt the case and I could go on about why that is the case. Which actual teams are or not selected is irrelevant it is not the topic of conversation. Its about establishing a super league.

Its adorable that you want to include Carlton. Just so that yo know, if a Super League started today and if it was based on existing teams in the AFL competition, Carlton would never get in. Most neutral supporters would agree.

Had in 1991 the AFL established one we would have far superior product than what we have today.
Then I can comment can I? Lol. And you think my long held preference for how a national league should’ve been set up has anything to do with you? That’s some delusion of grandeur and sense of entitlement you’ve got there.

If you can’t remember what you even posted, you can see your comment here. Yup, 2 Melbourne teams :moustache:

At the time the game went national, Carlton were the most successful club in the strongest league. If it been done differently out of state clubs, they would’ve been one of the first club’s sought after. I know, you don’t understand anything about football at the time, but you’re not gonna let that stop you. Hahaha.
 

GROTTO

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Then I can comment can I? Lol. And you think my long held preference for how a national league should’ve been set up has anything to do with you? Dude! Seek help. You’re not important.

If you can’t remember what you even posted, you can see your comment here. Yup, 2 Melbourne teams :moustache:

At the time the game went national, Carlton were the most successful club in the strongest league. If it been done differently out of state clubs, they would’ve been one of the first club’s sought after. I know, you clearly don’t understand anything about football at the time, but you’re not gonna let that stop you. Hahaha.
lol.

By 2 Melbourne teams I was including Geelong in that discussion. I mean seriously thats fairly evident. Even then 4 "Victorian" teams would be fine for a Super League. The idea is to develop a superior product, ie a Super League.

If the AFL decided to develop a Super League today in 2019, Carlton would be one of the last Clubs sought after.

Salty as. you are I even stated that Norwood and Port should have gone in back in 1991. In any case, a Super League version will develop over time, in the next 25-50 years where teams will be forced to either merge, relocate or be culled. That is inevitable.

You are clearly lacking any clear objectiveness here to have a rationale discussion instead of being narrow minded about Carlton.
 

Freshwater

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Christ what do you call to far? The sport has changed completely. You could barely call it Aussie rules footy now. In fact they don't they call it AFL.
I actually agree, just this week someone was kicked out of ‘Marvel’ for calling an ump a bald flog. That’s too far. But there will have to be correction to such nonsense. Even though the flogs that run the game hate it, they love control. Someone in the Herald-Sun this week wrote in the letters section “ the AFL wants to redesign their logo, something with a hammer and sickle would be a good start “. Gold.
 

Mcarcherey

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not sure why so many are against this.

the AFL is just going to continue it's tyrannical circus act with Gill in charge, and i can't see it getting any better.

a new league without the rules Gill and his team have implemented along with the organisation being ruled by the clubs/fans and not from the top down might be the kick up the arse the AFL need. Competition is good.
 

4THAWN

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Rubbish, we never had auskick when I started in the mid 70's. Plenty still played footy.
kids are completely different nowadays, junior sports are struggling because kids would rather sit at home playing 12 hours of xbox instead of going out riding bikes with friends, playing footy, anything to do with going outside
 

Twist_of_Lemon

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kids are completely different nowadays, junior sports are struggling because kids would rather sit at home playing 12 hours of xbox instead of going out riding bikes with friends, playing footy, anything to do with going outside
Branching that out, kids also simply have far more options when it comes to how they choose to entertain themselves than ever before, both in terms of passive and active options.

I've also witnessed a degree of apathy towards Aussie Rules in the schools that I have been involved with as compared to when I was a kid growing up during 'Modra Madness'. Schools that used to have Aussie Rules teams now no longer do and haven't for a number of years, yet continue having basketball and, to a lesser extent, soccer teams. That was unheard of when I was a kid. Even during the Jordan days when you were the coolest kid around rocking up in an NBA starter jacket (Charlotte Hornets being the best :p), Aussie Rules reigned supreme over-all for participation at lunch-time and school sport.

The only shining beacon currently is that the school I am at has had a huge sign-up for the AFL Girls Academy competition, including relatives of Gavin Wanganeen. Can't wait to see how that progresses.
 

Carringbush2010

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If interstate fans organise themselves they could expedite the changes they seek. If Adelaide and West Coast's etc crowds all of a sudden spiral, memberships go down, sponsors losing revenue from an organised boycott (AFL sponsors not club sponsors) etc etc the AFL will at first get their media hounds to try and shame you, then they will try and lure new members in through various means but once all of that fails and you hold out, you may then get real action.
Even then the way the market is they could just hold the vic market happy, it wouldn't be an absolute necessity to win back the clubs outside of vic. The population outnumbers all other traditional footy states including NT by more than a million combined.

Of course they'd want to keep their "national" brand but it wouldn't be a necessity to keep the franchise clubs that entered around or after the nationalisation of the comp.

If push came to shove they'd probably abandon clubs that drop off through member and supporter dissent and maybe even offer licences to other current state leagues (boy wouldn't that be a **** fight!).

Point is while not ideal if this scenario was to pass the league wouldn't budge to satisfy the newcomers in the chance the foundation clubs (vic) get their nose out joint through member & supporter dissent. All comes down to $$ as you say and we all know where the most of it comes from from a paying supporter base view.
 

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Papa G

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The AFL is designed to propagate, promote and profit the 6 biggest Victorian clubs. Why would they want to change anything? The other 4 small Vic clubs won't rock the boat because they rely on incumbency and the scraps they are given to survive. The 6 proper non Vic clubs are not strong enough as a collective to force any change, so we are left with what we have.

As such, there is zero chance of breakaway league. Ironically the only way a breakaway league could actually happen is that the AFL decide to create a fairer league and treat all clubs more equitably. This would cause the bigger Vic clubs to get their noses out of joint and that's where it might get interesting. But ofcourse we know this will never hapoen.
 

RoarLike44In24

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Even then the way the market is they could just hold the vic market happy, it wouldn't be an absolute necessity to win back the clubs outside of vic. The population outnumbers all other traditional footy states including NT by more than a million combined.

Of course they'd want to keep their "national" brand but it wouldn't be a necessity to keep the franchise clubs that entered around or after the nationalisation of the comp.

If push came to shove they'd probably abandon clubs that drop off through member and supporter dissent and maybe even offer licences to other current state leagues (boy wouldn't that be a **** fight!).

Point is while not ideal if this scenario was to pass the league wouldn't budge to satisfy the newcomers in the chance the foundation clubs (vic) get their nose out joint through member & supporter dissent. All comes down to $$ as you say and we all know where the most of it comes from from a paying supporter base view.
Agree with most of it except a Victorian league simply isnt viable. Straight away you lose national sponsors such as Virgin etc

Plus TV deals dive in value dramatically
 

Carringbush2010

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Agree with most of it except a Victorian league simply isnt viable. Straight away you lose national sponsors such as Virgin etc

Plus TV deals dive in value dramatically
And how would that be? You realise the overwhelming majority of the footy market is in Vic right? Virgin aren't gonna give a flying (pardon the pun) where eyes are coming from as long as they're there.

How would the Vic comp simply not be viable if Vic is the major market? Are you suggesting that they're just gonna dump their vic teams for a super league just because?

I find it perplexing people have some skewed perception that the fan in the pub and on the street is just gonna dump a comp that started in the 19th century and is now at its strongest in the 21st just because super league.
 

The Passenger

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No one is going to watch a poxy league with the "could have been 22 year olds". If they were going to do that the VFL, SANFL and WAFL would have more support. These are high standard leagues in their own right, but a long way off what punters are used to watching in the AFL.

The only way a super league works is if it involves someone with a truckload of money (as in billions, maybe even tens of billions) turning up and looking to take a huge risk with a breakaway league. Because they couldn't use the existing clubs, they'd need to offer the players a significant pay increase. A player on $600K isn't going to sign onto a new league with a club that is yet to exist for $700K a year. To entice enough players over the median wage would have to probably triple what is is now with the top earners roughly doubling their money to somewhere around $2-2.5M a season. You need to sign about 400 players into this league (for 10 clubs worth of players) and with an average wage of around $750K that puts the wage bill at something like $300M a year.

Another issue is stadiums. Most - if not all - of the big grounds have contracts with the AFL, so you'd struggle to find appropriate sized stadia for your league. And to bankroll all of this, you need a broadcaster, and we've seen at the moment the TV networks in Australia are either stretched to the limits on their sporting budgets or over them.

On top of all this, they need to get a critical mass of signing's from the AFL into the new league, to entice supporters to convert from their existing clubs. If they could sign - say - 80 of the games top 100 players, then the new league would probably get enough support because people do like to watch footy and they want to watch the best players - probably worth pointing out a lot of that initial support would only come begrudgingly with many supporters pining for the old days of their team.

This sort of thing was ripe to happen in the 80's and 90's, and indeed did happen in the rugby league with two separate competitions running in 1997 before reforming to make the NRL. But these days with the amount of money the AFL is already generating... I can't see a breakaway league having anymore than a 1% chance of success, and I think that's probably being generous.
 

greatwhiteshark

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Breakaway leagues are about compromise, they are about fixing what one league refuses to fix. They are never about making money but more about making the point someone else got it wrong.

The AFL have got it wrong, they have stuffed the sport up. You only have to open BF up daily to see this, no one talks about footy anymore. All that is discussed are the MR, umpires, rule changes.

But we are all as guilty as head office as we have accepted everything the AFL has done to this once awesome sport.
We now have blokes taking marks giving away free kicks, tackling is now penalised with fines and suspensions, bumps and shepherding are dealt with the same way, umpires treat the players like children, defending is almost impossible without infringing the rules, show of strength in a marking contest or a ruck contest is almost every time afree kick one way or another.
The sport is a shambles of a product yet week in week out we turn up to watch it in huge numbers under the guise that with new rule changes they might fix it.

We don’t need a breakaway, we simply need to boycott a couple of rounds and the message will be loud and clear.
Make no mistake they are going to continue to tear the sport apart, they are not listening to the real fans which are losing interest with the game.

Get a movement together, boycott a couple of rounds consecutively and see what they reckon, they already have how membership money so let’s see what the AFL and the broadcasters think of empty stadiums.
 

VicBased

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No, the only people the AFL cannot control are the fans. You turn up, you pay the money, you buy the newspapers and you buy the sponsor's merch/services.

Money talks the loudest and it's the only language the AFL execs speak fluently.
Bloody good post.
 

VicBased

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We don’t need a breakaway, we simply need to boycott a couple of rounds and the message will be loud and clear.
Make no mistake they are going to continue to tear the sport apart, they are not listening to the real fans which are losing interest with the game.
Agreed, but the organisation of that event and the apathy of Aussies make that "Mission impossible". Having said that if a date were organised i would support it and not go.
 

footyfan78

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there are no other teams worthy
Rubbish, we never had auskick when I started in the mid 70's. Plenty still played footy.
There was a little league. Fairly sure at half time the kids from primary schools got to play on the full size league ground. Now the put about 6 auskick games whatever they are to fill the ground up. It is not really footy in real sense. It has a footy out there is all...
 

greatwhiteshark

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There was a little league. Fairly sure at half time the kids from primary schools got to play on the full size league ground. Now the put about 6 auskick games whatever they are to fill the ground up. It is not really footy in real sense. It has a footy out there is all...
I was replying to someone suggesting without Auskick kids would have no where to play. Not only did we play, we had scores, ladders, finals the whole shooting match, no modified rules and it all seems to work very well.
 

CrowdedHouse

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If someone was to attempt a breakaway league, there best bet would be to start with the women's game.

Due to the AFLW being so early in it's existance and the pay being so low, you could run smaller league (say 8-10 teams), play in smaller stadiums, and if you quadrupled the players pay, even the best players would be only on 100k. It would make a big difference to them (and they'd likely jump ship), but the overall wages bill wouldn't bust the budget like the men's game.

The comp wouldn't pull big crowd numbers or ratings, and would probably be a loss leader, but would be a 'working example' to the men's players and get them (and potential investors) talking about the possibility of a breakaway.
 

tony__montana

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Its actually a really good idea - I hope a handful of the strongest state league clubs band together and do it.
 

RoarLike44In24

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And how would that be? You realise the overwhelming majority of the footy market is in Vic right? Virgin aren't gonna give a flying (pardon the pun) where eyes are coming from as long as they're there.

How would the Vic comp simply not be viable if Vic is the major market? Are you suggesting that they're just gonna dump their vic teams for a super league just because?

I find it perplexing people have some skewed perception that the fan in the pub and on the street is just gonna dump a comp that started in the 19th century and is now at its strongest in the 21st just because super league.
You are now not even listening to me and seem to be getting emotional and putting words in my mouth. I have already stated numerous times that a super league or breakaway league isnt viable. The hopes of those who support the idea lay in reforming what we have.

If you cannot move beyond this and want to childishly continue to imply I've argued anything else then the conversation becomes entirely moot. If you are ready to grow up then read on.

The biggest market for AFL is Victoria by a clear margin but being the biggest is not the same as having an overwhelming majority.

Virgin are a company that fly- they want to advertise to customers who want to fly and the footy is a nice tie in for that so long as the game is national. Even if they remained a sponsor do you seriously think the sponsorship amount would remain tje same if they are paying for a state market rather than a national one?

Similarly for national TV deals - do you think a network will pay as much if the competition was confined to a state?

Money coming into the AFL declines then the money the AFL can spend declines. It really is quite basic.

If you cannot see that the AFL needs Victorian teams AND interstate teams then you are beyond help. Now if you want to read my previous posts then you will understand the context from which I say that and no, it isn't bitterness or a pissing match.
 

Scotland

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Rubbish, we never had auskick when I started in the mid 70's. Plenty still played footy.
It's not the 1970s, though. My old man grew up in the 50s and 'back in myyy dayyy' you played footy in Winter and cricket in Summer. Girls played netball and there was a bit of field hockey and tennis. Basketball? Soccer? Maybe if you'd been stationed in the Pacific with some US soldiers or just arrived on a boat from Greece.

These days junior participation in soccer outstrips Australian rules 2:1. Footy is about on par with netball and basketball. Auskick is about the only thing the AFL does right in getting kids into playing the game and it not costing parents a fortune. FFA have totally dropped the ball on this and junior rego fees for soccer are high. Rugby union is just played by private school kids as it always has been and rugby league will end up only being played by islanders and kids big for their age group.

Where junior sports has gone wrong is the ******** not keeping score everyone is a winner nonsense. I remember playing school footy when I was about 7 or 8 years old on a muddy oval and there was a winner and a loser. Didn't stop us wanting to play.
 

La Dispute

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"look young lad come try out with Geelong" nah fook ya I am staying in the super league with the Port Fairy seagulls.
Looks like we’ve found a post-AFL home for David Zaharakis, James Aish and Brandon Ellis though.
 
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