Could you believe in God if there was no afterlife ?

Lestat

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#76
Birdy said:
Also the Leviticus law on homosexuals is regarded as a universal moral law, such as do not kill, steal, etc. for a number of good reasons.
But didn't you just say that 'old testament law does not apply'???
 

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Cap

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#77
I dont mind if they walk to the birth.deaths and marriages office and say we want to be married and they do it all there

but how can they expect to be married in a religious way then the religion rejects them ?

It seems all minority groups are the same (assuming gay is in the minority?) always ********ed off at something if life nothing is fair to all so deal with it
 

finders

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#78
The funny thing about the manmade religions and the their followers is that although they preach tolerence and compassion they all hate each other with a nasty vengence and reckon they are the only REAL one!
Well hey,they cant be all right - can they?
Its a big waste of time to try and show these fools how stupid and wrong they are
Lifes just too short to waste time on the unknown.
 

Goldenblue

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#79
Capitalist said:
hmm quote buddha and then refer to the bible has fairly tales - now there is some funny stuff
This statement shows you have no idea on Buddism.
Best to speak about what you have some knowledge on.

"Long is the night to the wakeful; long is the league to the weary; long is the samsara to the foolish who know not the Sublime Truth."
 

Goldenblue

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#81
finders said:
The funny thing about the manmade religions and the their followers is that although they preach tolerence and compassion they all hate each other with a nasty vengence and reckon they are the only REAL one!
Well hey,they cant be all right - can they?
Its a big waste of time to try and show these fools how stupid and wrong they are
Lifes just too short to waste time on the unknown.
We are taught to tolerate other religions. However, when someone tells me I am wrong, I have every right to defend my beliefs. However, we are at peace with other religions and accept them for what they are.
 

FIGJAM

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#83
finders said:
The funny thing about the manmade religions and the their followers is that although they preach tolerence and compassion they all hate each other with a nasty vengence and reckon they are the only REAL one!
Well hey,they cant be all right - can they?
Its a big waste of time to try and show these fools how stupid and wrong they are
Lifes just too short to waste time on the unknown.
I practice Gnostisism. It is based on the premise that ALL religions are based upon elements of the same truth. It draws from the mystical elements of all religions, which are all brought about by meditational practices.

All religions stem from the connectivity of individuals to the Universal Consciousness. It is only "the unknown" to you, because you have not been taught how to access the Consciousness. That's not your fault. Most of the teachings have been hidden for thousands of years (at least if you're unfamiliar with Buddhism). Indeed Gnostic practitioners were slaughtered by the Catholic Church.

It is also only "the unknown", because science has not yet been able to find a way to see it. It's only a matter of time, before they can measure it. I think science is actually very close to working it out (via string theory etc.), although whilst science freaks think that it will disprove spirituality once and for all, I think they'll be in for a very pleasant surprise!

I think the three mid-east religions, whilst they contain substantial elements of truth, have lost their way due to the unneccesary hand of man within its teachings. It's no wonder that so many people have turned their back on spirituality as a result.

The self-interested hand of man is why we find ourselves trapped within this reality. The more man alters things to suit his / her needs, the more ignorant people become. The more ignorant they become, the more self-interested they are. Then they have the ego to say that all spiritual gurus are wrong and that it's all a waste of time, without having any concept of spirituality whatsoever! It's a sad state of affairs, but it is merely the path they must take.
 

finders

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#85
The other main down side to most religions is that they will stand NO criticism at all ,remember all the burnings and torturings throughout history done in the name of protecting "religion" from any sort of adverse comments?
As the jesus god botherer G W Bush you are said "either with us or against us" and thats straight out of the religious fanatics handbook.
 

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#87
Pessimistic said:
Would there be any point ?

Just suppose it is proven beyond doubt that even if there is a god, the reward of afterlife is a myth - ie does not exist.

Would any of you who do believe in cod for certain, still be disposed to be a 'believer'
Who has an undisputed basis for beleving god exists "for certain"? No1?

It's called a faith because you "voluntarily choose" (or your parents or some1 force it on you) to believe what's written in the book of faith, but you can't objectively prove it. If so, it logically follows that nothing is the one right way, because it's all unprovable.

Fair enough people need to "believe" in something to fill the gaps in knowledge about who we are and where we came from etc, but what I can't internally rationalise is people who argue I'm right and you're wrong on this topic. It all appears unprovable to me and hence rightly known as a "faith" and followers and rightly called "believers".
 

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#88
Birdy said:
Buddhism has many good teachings for how one should live, however without Christ it is useless. For Jesus said: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6.
Just being pedantic here, but technically speaking, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "God/Jesus allegedly said..."?
 

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#91
finders said:
The other main down side to most religions is that they will stand NO criticism at all ,remember all the burnings and torturings throughout history done in the name of protecting "religion" from any sort of adverse comments?
As the jesus god botherer G W Bush you are said "either with us or against us" and thats straight out of the religious fanatics handbook.
Well finders you wicked liar, Christianity welcomes constructive criticism as the Holy Bible as stood the test of time for 3500 years. Muslim countries however have blasphemy laws which carry the death sentence. And as for your burnings and torturings, they were hardly carried out by men of God but men of Satan as they are the exact types who Jesus warned us not to be like and made Him angry. God knows what will come out of your foolish mouth next.
 

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#92
littleduck said:
Just being pedantic here, but technically speaking, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "God/Jesus allegedly said..."?
I think it would be more accurate to say Jesus as they are the one, but you are distinguishing between the Father and the Son.
 

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#93
Birdy said:
Where in the OT does it require rejection and damnation of lepers and people of different races? Homosexual behaviour in the OT was condemned because God hates sin, it is detestable to Him. Such sins had harsh penalties because of the treaty God had with Israel, that this disobedience of God's laws would not go unpunished. Christ accepted this punishment for us and so this covenant is now not applicable. God still hates sin, and Jesus spoke of the importance of obeying His commandments. It is a pity that non-believers cannot understand how anyone could love thy neighbour while not loving their sins also.
Methinks this board needs an explanation of Biblical covenants. I'll see what I can come up with.
 

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#94
littleduck said:
I agree stupid is harsh. But illogical is highly arguable, after all there is no objectively logical reason to become a believer of any religious faith.
I still don't understand this reasoning. There are literally thousands upon thousands of near death experiences and experiences brought about by meditation. Why does this not constitute a field of scientific study?

As it stands, you require as much faith to accept string theory, as you do to accept spirituality.

Like I've said before, religion is based upon experiences derived from meditation and / or near death experiences. For mine, there are just two options,

1. These experiences are derived from the collective unconsciousness, as defined by Carl Jung. These experiences all just happen to be exactly the same.

2. There is a Universal Counsciousness, of which we are all a part of. We can access the greater consciousness via meditation.

As yet no one hasd proved anything definitavely eitherway, so people calling each other names as a result is ludicrous. Stop abusing each other, as none of you are smarter than anyone else just because of your beliefs. That's the only fact known here, so drop the figgen egos!!
 

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#95
FIGJAM said:
I still don't understand this reasoning. There are literally thousands upon thousands of near death experiences and experiences brought about by meditation. Why does this not constitute a field of scientific study?
Because it's not objectively provable.

Like I've said before, religion is based upon experiences derived from meditation and / or near death experiences. For mine, there are just two options,

1. These experiences are derived from the collective unconsciousness, as defined by Carl Jung. These experiences all just happen to be exactly the same.

2. There is a Universal Counsciousness, of which we are all a part of. We can access the greater consciousness via meditation.
Interesting ideas.

As yet no one hasd proved anything definitavely eitherway, so people calling each other names as a result is ludicrous.
Yeah!!!

It's all unprovable either way.

Stop abusing each other, as none of you are smarter than anyone else just because of your beliefs. That's the only fact known here, so drop the figgen egos!!
Yeah!!!
 

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#96
Lestat said:
Gee...I don't know, plenty of threads and a number of posts where you ridicule others who believe in God, and numerous statements where you claim that God is 'an imaginary being'.

Are you deny that you have said as such.

That would indicate to me that 'you know' and that we 'don't know'.

Now get your hand of it mate, just admit that you believe that you are right, and I am wrong.
My argument is that it is a waste of time to believe and hang your hat on something we don't know exits. You and Birdy both hang your hat on it. Therefore I'm on one side of the fence and you two are on the other. Now you claim that you are right and he is wrong and he claims the opposite. It's a bit rich to bag him for his beliefs when yours aren't much different don't you think?

You say you base your opinion of the knowns. Fine, you don't have any proof that God exists. However, as I said, you don't have any proof that God doesn't exist either. So how the hell are you basing your opinion on the knowns?? You don't know!
Reverting to the dumb eternal argument of all religious people I see. Let me try to clarify this for you:

We know: nothing
We don't know: that God exists.

So we don't know either way. So why would we waste our time an energy on something we don't know? ie Why would we go to church? Why would we base our morals around something unproven?

Of course you will blindly come back and say why do I base my morals on something we don't know, but what you don't realise is I don't. I don't go to church and I don't waste time basing my beliefs on atheist. It's like saying you base all your beliefs on believing there is no one-eyed flying squid. We know you don't base your beliefs and morals on your belief that there is no such thing as a one-eyed flying squid so why are you trying to tell me I based my beliefs on something similar?
 

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#98
Birdy said:
Well finders you wicked liar, Christianity welcomes constructive criticism as the Holy Bible as stood the test of time for 3500 years. Muslim countries however have blasphemy laws which carry the death sentence. And as for your burnings and torturings, they were hardly carried out by men of God but men of Satan as they are the exact types who Jesus warned us not to be like and made Him angry. God knows what will come out of your foolish mouth next.
proof religion is the root of ALL evil,typical "mines better than yours" rubbish
 

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Its kind of hard to answer the question (sorry jumping in half way) as from Day 1 you are told the Jesus died for our sins so we could go to heaven, I suppose it depends lets face facts,
Athiests dont believe in God or allah etc becasue they dont believe there is an advantage in it for themselves so why put in if you cant get anything out of it ?

I'd say but alot of people believe in god so it can give them fullfillment in life and a promise of a better life if you lead a lifestyle the your god approves is always an added bonus.

I dont think there was an afterlife until the whole apple saga ? arent we just doing this life to get back into eden ?

I suppose you could say if there is no afterlife is there a god ?

I suppose you could look at it - would you support a football team that you knew had no chance of ever winning a game ?
 
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