Religion Could you go from Atheist->Theist or Theist->Atheist?

[Present Not Past]

With inspiration from the the "A bit of an impasse" thread (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/a-bit-of-an-impasse-on-some-srp-topics.1141084/), I thought I'd try to start a religion thread that won't end in the same old arguments. So instead of trying to convince other people about your viewpoint on religion, this thread is about challenging your own thoughts.

The concept is simple ...

If you're an atheist, post what it would take for you to become a theist. And if you're a theist, post what it would take for you to no longer have faith in God.

Once you have that experience of faith you can't really go back to being an agnostic or an atheist.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

If the world is created by a loving creator then humans would not experiance old age and the pain that comes along with it. And let's not go into human deformities created at birth. Humans would also experiance greater degrees of happiness from their daily experiance and would not suffer extreme anxieties, depression etc. yes anxiety and fear are useful in certain situations, but we experiance them today for reasons that provide no use to our survival. Humans would also not be motivated by net zero sum status seeking if the world was created by a loving creator. Obviously there would also be no reason why plagues and Natural disasters would exist in a world created by a loving creator. I could go on and on here. The only conclusion for an omnipotent God if he exists is that he is evil and should be despised. If a God does exist and he is not omnipotent then whoever created the God must then be the evil one.

What if said creator was imperfect? Not entirely omnipotent and omniscient.

In a way that was similar to when we create electronics that still age and break down?

I guess it depends if you believe a 'creator' should be responsible for all calamities or if you believe a 'creator' purely created us and is not responsible for every minor thing in our lives.

Furthermore, if we didn't experience any death/illness/unhappiness, would we appreciate the highs associated with life? You need context to appreciate things.

 

[CM86]

Once you have that experience of faith you can't really go back to being an agnostic or an atheist.

You mean like, if you weren't a theist, then you became a theist, you couldn't change again?

I'm sure I've seen examples the other way. Theist, atheist, back to theist.

But people born into theism might never have the experience of faith, and that's why they can change to atheism/agnosticism?

 

[CM86]

O.K CM86....Message received.

Could you please post under your true identity & stop posting with that obnoxious Alias in every thread?

Cheers.

Thanks.

Second time you've said this.
Is this account the alias? Or am I posting under a different account as an alias?

I'd really like you to back your statement up this time. Or stop saying it.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

For the sake of the argument, I'm going to assume you believe in self-determinism.

So you believe that if you were to see evidence of a creator, humans no longer have any moral responsibility of their own?

You believe that the creator would be ultimately responsible for every decision we make?

An example would be Einstein and the atomic bomb. Do you think Einstein is to blame for Hiroshima? (My knowledge of the atomic bomb is pretty low, so I'm making the assumption his word led to its creation).


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this is actually a good question, this sudden revelation of a deity wouldn't change the way i live my life, i certainly wouldn't worship it or relinquish my ethics or morals i've grown up with, simply to appease it.

I mean what if this being turned out to be some Pre-Colombian aztec god that demanded human sacrifices?

should we suddenly start cutting out each others hearts and s**t?

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

this is actually a good question, this sudden revelation of a deity wouldn't change the way i live my life, i certainly wouldn't worship it or relinquish my ethics or morals i've grown up with, simply to appease it.

I mean what if this being turned out to be some Pre-Colombian aztec god that demanded human sacrifices?

should we suddenly start cutting out each others hearts and s**t?

Exactly, I don't think we would suddenly throw out every bit of humanity we've acquired in the past two centuries, and any deity that demanded that should be forsaken/destroyed. (Getting into specifics of omnipotence etc seems pointless here)

Furthermore, when people speak about who and what God is seems futile to me. I'm sure how people perceive what a creator to be would vary vastly from person to person. If there was some sort of revelation, would people actually become a theist anyway? I'd imagine that humanity would be terrified that a being, who could theoretically destroy us, has just appeared. I think that it would lead to a subservient sort of faith, rather than the hopeful faith that I have.

Who knows, perhaps the sudden appearance of a deity would destroy all faith that I currently hold.

 

[Present Not Past]

You mean like, if you weren't a theist, then you became a theist, you couldn't change again?

I'm sure I've seen examples the other way. Theist, atheist, back to theist.

But people born into theism might never have the experience of faith, and that's why they can change to atheism/agnosticism?

Isn't someone born into theism who has no experience of faith already an agnostic/atheist? So they haven't actually changed have they?

 

[Present Not Past]

Exactly, I don't think we would suddenly throw out every bit of humanity we've acquired in the past two centuries, and any deity that demanded that should be forsaken/destroyed. (Getting into specifics of omnipotence etc seems pointless here)

Furthermore, when people speak about who and what God is seems futile to me. I'm sure how people perceive what a creator to be would vary vastly from person to person. If there was some sort of revelation, would people actually become a theist anyway? I'd imagine that humanity would be terrified that a being, who could theoretically destroy us, has just appeared. I think that it would lead to a subservient sort of faith, rather than the hopeful faith that I have.

Who knows, perhaps the sudden appearance of a deity would destroy all faith that I currently hold.

Did the early Christians throw away every bit of their humanity?

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Did the early Christians throw away every bit of their humanity?

I'm sorry, I'm unaware of what you're implying or asking. Can you please explain?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Did the early Christians throw away every bit of their humanity?

No, but the Romans did.....To the Lions.

 

[bad setanta]

I mean what if this being turned out to be some Pre-Colombian aztec god that demanded human sacrifices?

Or old mate from the Torah who doesn't mind a bit of human sacrifice either.

 

[Total Power]

Well, Yes....I was being ironic.

You need to let go of this obsessive stalking TP....It's not healthy for your soul Javert....You'll just end up les miserables.

Come on p35, wheres the love mate? you need to chill out and bit and stop taking everything seriously at all times

 

[Total Power]

No, but the Romans did.....To the Lions.

Brisbane Lions?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Can one of the theists please explain to me why the people in the Bronze Age Middle East were so important that god would show himself to them on 3 separate occasions or whatever,to create 3 different belief systems that basically hate each other?
Doesn't seem very wise or almighty etc

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Can one of the theists please explain to me why the people in the Bronze Age Middle East were so important that god would show himself to them on 3 separate occasions or whatever,to create 3 different belief systems that basically hate each other?
Doesn't seem very wise or almighty etc

Firstly, the Bronze Age preceded Christianity and Islam.

Secondly, Judaism rejects that Jesus was sent by God. I'm not really sure on what Christianity teaches about Muhammad. Islam doesn't hold that Jesus was the final prophet. That is obviously supported by each derivative believing themselves to be the ultimate incarnation. That's my interpretation, anyway.

So, to answer that question, neither of the Abrahamic religions really believe that God intended the other belief systems to be either complete or true.

 

[skilts]

Once you have that experience of faith you can't really go back to being an agnostic or an atheist.

Once you have experienced faith, there is no incentive to ever think again.

 

[skilts]

No, but the Romans did.....To the Lions.

And people have the temerity to say that the Romans got it wrong. That's up there with viaducts and roads among their achievements. They were merely giving the Xians a leg up on the way to their personal Nirvana. No greater love hath any man than to send a person to their dreamed of, pretend existence. Don't forget, two worlds are better than one.

 

[Present Not Past]

Once you have experienced faith, there is no incentive to ever think again.

I can only go by my own experience and do not wish to speak on other people's behalf.
Everyone is different.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

And people have the temerity to say that the Romans got it wrong. That's up there with viaducts and roads among their achievements. They were merely giving the Xians a leg up on the way to their personal Nirvana. No greater love hath any man than to send a person to their dreamed of, pretend existence. Don't forget, two worlds are better than one.

Yeah, murdering people based on their religion is great.

Do you also support Boko Haram's murder of Christians?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Or old mate from the Torah who doesn't mind a bit of human sacrifice either.

As opposed to materialist, capitalistic greed responsible for the death of over 1 million civilians & the displacement of 12 million, causing the greatest European immigration/refugee crisis in mankinds history.

But it's not about oil, it's about Islam, theism & God apparently....As opposed to the non-sacrificial, humanitarian code, of atheism......God strike me.

Hitler, Stalin, Leninn & Mao could teach them pikey theists, a thing or 2 about human sacrifice.....Oh ye atheist creed. King of humanitarianism.

 

[skilts]

Yeah, murdering people based on their religion is great.

Do you also support Boko Haram's murder of Christians?

I see the deaths of any such religious followers as inconsequential. If they see this life as being inconsequential, when compared with 'the real world' that allegedly follows, who am I to argue? Killing them is an acknowledgement of their humanity, which is more than they're capable of doing. Anyway, death is just a passing phase for such twerps, till the next life begins. No, really, I'm not laughing, merely smirking.

 

[skilts]

Hitler, Stalin, Leninn & Mao could teach them pikey theists, a thing or 2 about human sacrifice.....Oh ye atheist creed. King of humanitarianism.

Now, let me see, Lennin, didn't he play with The Beatles? Not sure they ever indulged in human sacrifice though. You might be thinking of Alice Cooper.

 

[skilts]

Everyone is different.

Which is at odds with what you initially wrote.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Firstly, the Bronze Age preceded Christianity and Islam.

Secondly, Judaism rejects that Jesus was sent by God. I'm not really sure on what Christianity teaches about Muhammad. Islam doesn't hold that Jesus was the final prophet. That is obviously supported by each derivative believing themselves to be the ultimate incarnation. That's my interpretation, anyway.

So, to answer that question, neither of the Abrahamic religions really believe that God intended the other belief systems to be either complete or true.

Well,one is true or all are false.
Which is it?
Who owns the one true god?

 

[chelseacarlton]

All people of faith are essentially atheists against all religions bar their own.
So everyone on earth is an atheist.
Rejoice brothers and sisters!