COVID-19 / Coronavirus

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VIC RESIDENTS- Enough is enough.

We all agree Covid is a nasty virus BUT we cannot be locked up any longer. People are struggling, people are hurting (mentally, physically , financially....)....there is no end in sight....despite fictious dates.


The numbers are low enough to open most things up. I feel for those of you with loved ones who may have caught this horrible virus but we can’t keep going like this.


I have mates whose businesses will not reopen again (sadly) , friends who have taken severe financial hits , and have family that are on the verge of a ‘breakdown’ of various types

My wife has two doctor friends that have said ‘mental health’ is by far their biggest worry
She also has a pharmacist friend who has increased their processing of anti-depressants (Lots of young people - she said)

Please , if any of you are struggling, seek help, don’t suffer alone or in silence.

We need to act now before it’s too late for some.

Everyone, look after yourselves.
 
hfc70 said:
VIC RESIDENTS- Enough is enough.

We all agree Covid is a nasty virus BUT we cannot be locked up any longer. People are struggling, people are hurting (mentally, physically , financially....)....there is no end in sight....despite fictious dates.


The numbers are low enough to open most things up. I feel for those of you with loved ones who may have caught this horrible virus but we can’t keep going like this.


I have mates whose businesses will not reopen again (sadly) , friends who have taken severe financial hits , and have family that are on the verge of a ‘breakdown’ of various types

My wife has two doctor friends that have said ‘mental health’ is by far their biggest worry
She also has a pharmacist friend who has increased their processing of anti-depressants (Lots of young people - she said)

Please , if any of you are struggling, seek help, don’t suffer alone or in silence.

We need to act now before it’s too late for some.

Everyone, look after yourselves.
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How come people with symptoms are allowed to refuse testing? Even the spit test would be better than nothing. No wonder contact tracing is not working too well.
 

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arupist said:
Who really believes anything that comes out of the White House?
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Who believes the FAKE news, they are the corrupt ones
 
Sutton today said we may never meet our targets. A week ago he said we would, no fan of dictators Dan but this slimy ball hasn't been the best either.

No other state or territory in Australia has had the issue. Why do these two get to accidentally kill their old? Dunno. Seems a little bit wrong 2 me. Maybe I'm biased as I look after a 90 year old, but if u know anyone u could look after who u could get away from government management take the opportunity 2 try. Please.
 
Zack said:
Sutton today said we may never meet our targets. A week ago he said we would, no fan of dictators Dan but this slimy ball hasn't been the best either.

No other state or territory in Australia has had the issue. Why do these two get to accidentally kill their old? Dunno. Seems a little bit wrong 2 me. Maybe I'm biased as I look after a 90 year old, but if u know anyone u could look after who u could get away from government management take the opportunity 2 try. Please.
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NSW can't get to zero for 14 days and they are the gold standard according to Morrison

Clearly they have better track and trace than us based on results so far and they've not managed it so why would Sutton say Vic could do better than NSW?
 
Off The Couch said:
Sad news for Victoria today - can’t imagine how tough the restrictions are
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He's just a s**t communicator
He had a shitty road map and he's already deviating from it and now he's spruiking some changes but not telling us which are even being looked at.

Same s**t different day he's not been interested in giving anyone any idea of what's coming since the start and looka like he's back to that again
 
Gralin said:
He's just a sh*t communicator
He had a shitty road map and he's already deviating from it and now he's spruiking some changes but not telling us which are even being looked at.

Same sh*t different day he's not been interested in giving anyone any idea of what's coming since the start and looka like he's back to that again
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and here I am bitching about McGowan and his hard border to April

not even in the same league and I’ve punched myself in the face
 
I hope they lift the 5km rule next Sunday
Also hope we can have say 5 people visit the house

My parents haven’t been able to cuddle my 3 month old daughter yet
They have only seen photos and videos of her since she was born in July
My wife’s friends, my friends, brothers, nephews and nieces have not held her either, and it is frustrating not just for them, but for my wife and I also

Here‘s hoping for some good news next week!
 
Gralin said:
He's just a sh*t communicator
He had a shitty road map and he's already deviating from it and now he's spruiking some changes but not telling us which are even being looked at.

Same sh*t different day he's not been interested in giving anyone any idea of what's coming since the start and looka like he's back to that again
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Can you blame him for not outlining the changes when so many people are already taking upon themselves to do as they please though? If he was to outline the potential rollbacks you could guarantee that a fair slab of people start thinking they can do as they please from tomorrow. I'm already seeing facebook friends flaunting their family reunions and catch ups with friends that are against the current restrictions.
 
Zack said:
Sutton today said we may never meet our targets. A week ago he said we would, no fan of dictators Dan but this slimy ball hasn't been the best either.

No other state or territory in Australia has had the issue. Why do these two get to accidentally kill their old? Dunno. Seems a little bit wrong 2 me. Maybe I'm biased as I look after a 90 year old, but if u know anyone u could look after who u could get away from government management take the opportunity 2 try. Please.
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I agree. Sutton is no good and has gone under the radar. I have no confidence in him at all. He would roll over to Andrews without any doubt. That is why Andrews is happy to roll him out at every presser.

Every other state was allowed visitors to their house under stage 3 but Vic wasnt. And every other state has performed better than we have in Vic. Mental health has suffered enormously because of this yet the Vic health dept hasn't recognised this. Really poor.
 

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Strapping Young Lad said:
Can you blame him for not outlining the changes when so many people are already taking upon themselves to do as they please though? If he was to outline the potential rollbacks you could guarantee that a fair slab of people start thinking they can do as they please from tomorrow. I'm already seeing facebook friends flaunting their family reunions and catch ups with friends that are against the current restrictions.
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Mate I do blame him
He's the one creating the uncertainty

Zero *s given about anything bar the daily figure is how he comes across

Mental health, he doesn't accept that
DV or other issues he doesn't accept that

Don't agree with him your playing politics and don't care about saving lives

He's been the same since March. No transparency, no honesty and he's unable to give a straight answer to a simple question.

Some people are always going to do the wrong thing and lockdowns are only effective if you can get people to buy in.

Dan's favourite like I'm always open and transparent usually followed by but I'm not going to answer that now, it's not the right time.
 
Gralin said:
Mate I do blame him
He's the one creating the uncertainty

Zero fu**s given about anything bar the daily figure is how he comes across

Mental health, he doesn't accept that
DV or other issues he doesn't accept that

Don't agree with him your playing politics and don't care about saving lives

He's been the same since March. No transparency, no honesty and he's unable to give a straight answer to a simple question.

Some people are always going to do the wrong thing and lockdowns are only effective if you can get people to buy in.

Dan's favourite like I'm always open and transparent usually followed by but I'm not going to answer that now, it's not the right time.
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i hate getting into this argument because nobody's going to change their tune and i honestly don't disagree with either side but

this isn't really true. he's repeatedly said that individual mental health care, DV issues etc. all come way before the restrictions on movement for the virus

repeatedly. it's one of the primary reasons they set up the singles bubble, as well as the DV initiative where the men who felt they were at risk of committing acts of violence to leave. victims are also allowed to leave their home without repercussion. those with serious mental health issues are allowed to seek help through whatever channels necessary etc. they've also launched a royal commission into the mental health system

you can argue that 'perpetuating the lockdown is bad for overall mental health/DV' which is true however in terms of single instances where people need healthcare for either reason you are absolutely allowed to break the rules to do so. he has said so multiple times.

if people are getting fined for this kind of thing that's a VicPol problem
 
darthmann said:
i hate getting into this argument because nobody's going to change their tune and i honestly don't disagree with either side but

this isn't really true. he's repeatedly said that individual mental health care, DV issues etc. all come way before the restrictions on movement for the virus

repeatedly. it's one of the primary reasons they set up the singles bubble, as well as the DV initiative where the men who felt they were at risk of committing acts of violence to leave. victims are also allowed to leave their home without repercussion. those with serious mental health issues are allowed to seek help through whatever channels necessary etc. they've also launched a royal commission into the mental health system

you can argue that 'perpetuating the lockdown is bad for overall mental health/DV' which is true however in terms of single instances where people need healthcare for either reason you are absolutely allowed to break the rules to do so. he has said so multiple times.

if people are getting fined for this kind of thing that's a VicPol problem
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On world mental health day he said he it wasn't warranted for people to feel despondent or lose hope and that mental health would not be a consideration for easing of restrictions, just the numbers

Royal commissions are great but how often do they actually change anything. How's aged care and the banking sector going after their royal commissions

The cops in Vic are the last people that should be able to hand out fines indiscriminately for this kind of stuff

He's focused on covid numbers to the exclusion of everything else, so much so that apparently he can't plan ahead.

He was able to give us a proposed road map of easing of restrictions with targets and dates and now that he's decided that needs to be revised we are back to I'll tell you next Sunday

This isn't a libs / labour thing, I think Michael O'Brien is useless and wouldn't be surprised if he was worse in this scenario than Dan, but I think the way he has conducted himself in his press conferences, the lack of information he and his government are interested in sharing, the inability for them to explain decisions that the experts say weren't their ideas and the fact that they've pushed multiple times for more police power, that they are going down the Authoritarian road with this while claiming to be caring and progressive as a goverment just means I've got zero trust left in them.

Not a dictator dan comment btw, we still live in a democracy as shown by his omnibill not being passed, thankfully, that was some s**t legislation. It's the fact he thinks that is the way to go about this that is the issue.
 
Gralin said:
Mate I do blame him
He's the one creating the uncertainty

Zero fu**s given about anything bar the daily figure is how he comes across

Mental health, he doesn't accept that
DV or other issues he doesn't accept that

Don't agree with him your playing politics and don't care about saving lives

He's been the same since March. No transparency, no honesty and he's unable to give a straight answer to a simple question.

Some people are always going to do the wrong thing and lockdowns are only effective if you can get people to buy in.

Dan's favourite like I'm always open and transparent usually followed by but I'm not going to answer that now, it's not the right time.
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I don’t agree with much of that, and I think it’s quite clear there been a tonne of politics being played in the daily briefings.

I’m not sure there’s many simple answers to a lot of the questions that get thrown up through this mess.
 
Gralin said:
Royal commissions are great but how often do they actually change anything. How's aged care and the banking sector going after their royal commissions
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i think it depends on the discourse—those were both ultimately recommendations to the federal govt. whereas the bushfire RC has definitely changed a lot. I've done a bit of work for land developers and there's been significant updates to what they have to consider in regional vic compared to 2-3 years ago. so yeah, hopefully it being a state government initiative in a progressive government (admittedly not during this pandemic, but they have been through other things like drugs + welfare) there might be some tangible changes

and re

Gralin said:
He's focused on covid numbers to the exclusion of everything else, so much so that apparently he can't plan ahead.

He was able to give us a proposed road map of easing of restrictions with targets and dates and now that he's decided that needs to be revised we are back to I'll tell you next Sunday
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this is fair criticism in theory but i don't really disagree with making snap decisions based on what's happening as opposed to planning a few weeks ahead during a period of novelty such that we're in. this is just a personal thing so there's not much use in arguing it i think.

they've always said the roadmap would be open to changing based on how stubborn the tail has been. it's turned out to be more stubborn than they've thought and id prefer they adjust to account for this than to just blindly follow their roadmap, which if they did, we probably wouldn't be lifting any restrictions for another month or so after not managing to hit the target.

ultimately im just grateful we're atleast in a position now to be having a debate about when and why we should be lifting restrictions
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
I don’t agree with much of that, and I think it’s quite clear there been a tonne of politics being played in the daily briefings.

I’m not sure there’s many simple answers to a lot of the questions that get thrown up through this mess.
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That's fine you don't have to agree with it, it's my view of how he's conducted himself.

Yes there are a lot of questions trying to score political points but he doesn't seem capable of providing his own rules in simple concise terms let alone answer to questions, most of which aren't answers as is standard from politicians, he's still playing the game as well.

We absolutely needed the first lock down. We absolutely had uncertainty about what was going to happen, how serious this was, everything.

He made some good calls as part of national cabinet, he made mistakes, same as everyone else, it's to be expected.

We absolutely had to have a second lock down with how the numbers were going, the mistake was waiting too long to bring it in. Lying about track and trace capacity while numbers were going up and we clearly weren't coping wasn't good.

I don't get the feeling that his Government have learned from their mistakes or made much in the way of changes to their approach since the first lock down.

Seems he's not confident that we can live with this thing but the problem is we are going to have to live with this thing.
 
Gralin said:
That's fine you don't have to agree with it, it's my view of how he's conducted himself.

Yes there are a lot of questions trying to score political points but he doesn't seem capable of providing his own rules in simple concise terms let alone answer to questions, most of which aren't answers as is standard from politicians, he's still playing the game as well.

We absolutely needed the first lock down. We absolutely had uncertainty about what was going to happen, how serious this was, everything.

He made some good calls as part of national cabinet, he made mistakes, same as everyone else, it's to be expected.

We absolutely had to have a second lock down with how the numbers were going, the mistake was waiting too long to bring it in. Lying about track and trace capacity while numbers were going up and we clearly weren't coping wasn't good.

I don't get the feeling that his Government have learned from their mistakes or made much in the way of changes to their approach since the first lock down.

Seems he's not confident that we can live with this thing but the problem is we are going to have to live with this thing.
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yeah this is why its so vexxing. many have had an issue with his explanation of rules and rationale yet many (like me and seemingly the man formerly known as Abasi) have not, atleast to the same degree

personally what pisses me off is the divide that is being wedged between everyone. people anti-Dan are conducting themselves with extreme vitriol and continued personal attacks when all they're really doing is shooting the messenger

of course the other side is people who disagree with the govt's measures are insensitive, thoughtless and selfish

much of this is being driven by the media (which i think is unacceptable) but also i think the pedestal of US politics and how they operate on such a divisise topic. this kind of anger and derision is typical of the US the past ~8 years, which is a path i do not want our politics to go down

i just wish we could hold discourses, as we have done in this thread, without it divulging into a * YOU DICTATOR DAN, or LIBS ARE INCOMPETENT HACKS etc. and actually just discuss the various elements that make up policy and how they can be improved rather than defame and blame the policy-makers
 
darthmann said:
i think it depends on the discourse—those were both ultimately recommendations to the federal govt. whereas the bushfire RC has definitely changed a lot. I've done a bit of work for land developers and there's been significant updates to what they have to consider in regional vic compared to 2-3 years ago. so yeah, hopefully it being a state government initiative in a progressive government (admittedly not during this pandemic, but they have been through other things like drugs + welfare) there might be some tangible changes

and re



this is fair criticism in theory but i don't really disagree with making snap decisions based on what's happening as opposed to planning a few weeks ahead during a period of novelty such that we're in. this is just a personal thing so there's not much use in arguing it i think.

they've always said the roadmap would be open to changing based on how stubborn the tail has been. it's turned out to be more stubborn than they've thought and id prefer they adjust to account for this than to just blindly follow their roadmap, which if they did, we probably wouldn't be lifting any restrictions for another month or so after not managing to hit the target.

ultimately im just grateful we're atleast in a position now to be having a debate about when and why we should be lifting restrictions
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Generally once the money and the politics gets involved post recommendation is where it all comes undone

Yes the roadmap needs to change, when they first released it I thought no way will we be at 5 case avg and 5 total mystery cases by the 26th

I'm totally fine with him revising the plan. I'm not fine with 8 days of him saying there are going to be significant changes just not what we planned and I can't tell you what until then because the data
 
darthmann said:
yeah this is why its so vexxing. many have had an issue with his explanation of rules and rationale yet many (like me and seemingly the man formerly known as Abasi) have not, atleast to the same degree

personally what pisses me off is the divide that is being wedged between everyone. people anti-Dan are conducting themselves with extreme vitriol and continued personal attacks when all they're really doing is shooting the messenger

of course the other side is people who disagree with the govt's measures are insensitive, thoughtless and selfish

much of this is being driven by the media (which i think is unacceptable) but also i think the pedestal of US politics and how they operate on such a divisise topic. this kind of anger and derision is typical of the US the past ~8 years, which is a path i do not want our politics to go down

i just wish we could hold discourses, as we have done in this thread, without it divulging into a fu** YOU DICTATOR DAN, or LIBS ARE INCOMPETENT HACKS etc. and actually just discuss the various elements that make up policy and how they can be improved rather than defame and blame the policy-makers
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Anyone who starts with Dictator or Comrade I switch off immediately on their views

It seems that you either have to praise everything or criticize everything he did and there is no middle ground where you can be fine with some of it and not with other bits

I don't think he shows real ownership of the issues or real compassion. I think he talks like he does but I don't think he actually does.

That doesn't mean I automatically disagree with everything he and his Government have done. Lots of hard choices but he seems very inflexible and when a choice looks like maybe it was the wrong one he's dug his heels in a lot.

And I don't mean sticking to his guns on keeping things in place against media pressure from the Murdoch reporters and opposition.
 
Gralin said:
Anyone who starts with Dictator or Comrade I switch off immediately on their views

It seems that you either have to praise everything or criticize everything he did and there is no middle ground where you can be fine with some of it and not with other bits

I don't think he shows real ownership of the issues or real compassion. I think he talks like he does but I don't think he actually does.

That doesn't mean I automatically disagree with everything he and his Government have done. Lots of hard choices but he seems very inflexible and when a choice looks like maybe it was the wrong one he's dug his heels in a lot.

And I don't mean sticking to his guns on keeping things in place against media pressure from the Murdoch reporters and opposition.
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there's been a lot of self-preservation going on as we just saw today with Eccles, and i don't think Ashton is long for the political world either. this s**t is definitely harming the transparency we require and is obviously causing turmoil in the andrews govt.

i think a lot of the state's decisions are also, unfortunately, being strong-armed by the border policies of other states. we need them open to resume normality but of course can't get them open without community transmission.

as you say the choices are extremely difficult and it's a totally novel situation. i wish we dealt with it better but also, it could be much, much worse. we won't know for sure about anything really until at least 3-4 years down the road and we're somewhat recovered.

where's the shrug emoji at, because that pretty much sums up what i think
 
What a weak dog act from Eccles. Clearly his department had their hands all over things. Does not excuse Mikakos incompetence but explains her avoidance of responsibility.
 
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