COVID-19 / Coronavirus

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Phil McCreviss said:
Already have one of the kids positive mate. But can't get in to a hospital.
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This makes it feel so real for those like me that are just reading and observing this, I am just waiting for my wife to show signs of the virus as she has been working dealing with hundreds of Centrelink customers per day with minimal protection.

Like all on here, hope you and your family the best of outcome through this crisis.
 

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Bumps"N"Grins said:
This makes it feel so real for those like me that are just reading and observing this, I am just waiting for my wife to show signs of the virus as she has been working dealing with hundreds of Centrelink customers per day with minimal protection.

Like all on here, hope you and your family the best of outcome through this crisis.
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I hear you . Wife goes to work yesterday ( Podiatrist)
First client rocks up coughing , spluttering then says she has been to hospital at the start of the week to be tested . But went home because the wait was too long.

Seriously people just dont get it . Feel like we are on borrowed time.
 
Gotta love how our government is helping people stranded overseas get home.
Negotiating for flights where the cost is on the person trying to get back.
So if you haven't got the $3000-5000 for the ticket you're ****ed.

And Qantas took hundreds of millions from the government, stood down two thirds of their workforce straight after and cancelled all sick leave including for people already using it for workplace injuries or those that contracted Corona while at work.

I hope people remember this. Pay attention to how the leaders and companies are acting. Remember who they look after.
 
Gralin said:
Climate change is impacting the world right now and has the potential to be an extinction level event for so many animals and plants including humans.
But you've missed the point I was making.

You equate China's lack of change on certain policies as being solely the fault of the fact that they are ruled by the CCP. That a democratic government in China wouldn't act the same on wet markets .

If the majority of people in China want the wet markets to continue they most likely would under an elected government.

If they were profitable and not hated by the population to the point you lose an election over them they'd probably still exist in a western democracy where money is king more than pretty much anything.

How many things do we see governments rubber stamp that they shouldn't if they were making ethical decisions?

It's not just communists that make bad decisions. The difference in theory in a democracy is you can kick out the assholes making the bad choices.

The reality is that special interest groups buy politicians and media over here and it's not utopia.

It's better but not by enough to say all of this wouldn't have happened.

You get China to modernise and stop the kind of markets where this can happen and somewhere else that is still in poverty will start the next outbreak.

It's easy when you have the kind of food security we generally have in Australia to look down on countries where a lot of people don't and things like this happen.

And that's not saying the CCP shouldn't take blame in this but we're not looking after our poor here it's just that what poverty looks like here is different to regional China.
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This whole idea that the wet markets / wild animal trade is a economic issue for the poor makes no sense to me at all.

The wild animals that are being traded in these wet markets (palm civets / pangolins / bats /etc / etc ) are considered luxury items and are purchased more for their supposed medicinal qualities (utter bs by the way) that their protein content.

You cant tell me that it is more efficient to capture/farm a pangolin/palm civet for protein over a standard meat animal like a cow or pig? I mean how much meat could possibly be on a friggin pangolin?

And to say the same thing could happen in Australia? That is laughable. As an example, if a dairy manufacturer gets a positive test for Listeria in Australia the external laboratory who have done the test is required by law to notify the relevant state regulator (Dairy Food Safety Victoria for instance) who immediately contacts the manufacturer to make them put the product on hold, do an environmental swabbing program, enact corrective actions etc, etc.

I have worked for a couple of companies over the years who may have been a bit shady in regards to product quality but none of them would ever consider trying to hush up / cover up a positive pathogen detection or other such food safety issue. Because if you get caught you are going to jail. Simple as that.

But in China the political system is such that above all else the CCP must be seen as infalliable so the urge to cover up bad news / safe face is always the number 1 priority (even above the health of their citizens). No accountability leads to melamine in milk powder, pandemics being covered up, etc, etc.
 
Simon Crawshay said:
This whole idea that the wet markets / wild animal trade is a economic issue for the poor makes no sense to me at all.

The wild animals that are being traded in these wet markets (palm civets / pangolins / bats /etc / etc ) are considered luxury items and are purchased more for their supposed medicinal qualities (utter bs by the way) that their protein content.

You cant tell me that it is more efficient to capture/farm a pangolin/palm civet for protein over a standard meat animal like a cow or pig? I mean how much meat could possibly be on a friggin pangolin?

And to say the same thing could happen in Australia? That is laughable. As an example, if a dairy manufacturer gets a positive test for Listeria in Australia the external laboratory who have done the test is required by law to notify the relevant state regulator (Dairy Food Safety Victoria for instance) who immediately contacts the manufacturer to make them put the product on hold, do an environmental swabbing program, enact corrective actions etc, etc.

I have worked for a couple of companies over the years who may have been a bit shady in regards to product quality but none of them would ever consider trying to hush up / cover up a positive pathogen detection or other such food safety issue. Because if you get caught you are going to jail. Simple as that.

But in China the political system is such that above all else the CCP must be seen as infalliable so the urge to cover up bad news / safe face is always the number 1 priority (even above the health of their citizens). No accountability leads to melamine in milk powder, pandemics being covered up, etc, etc.
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Again you're missing the point
 
Simon Crawshay said:
This whole idea that the wet markets / wild animal trade is a economic issue for the poor makes no sense to me at all.

The wild animals that are being traded in these wet markets (palm civets / pangolins / bats /etc / etc ) are considered luxury items and are purchased more for their supposed medicinal qualities (utter bs by the way) that their protein content.

You cant tell me that it is more efficient to capture/farm a pangolin/palm civet for protein over a standard meat animal like a cow or pig? I mean how much meat could possibly be on a friggin pangolin?

And to say the same thing could happen in Australia? That is laughable. As an example, if a dairy manufacturer gets a positive test for Listeria in Australia the external laboratory who have done the test is required by law to notify the relevant state regulator (Dairy Food Safety Victoria for instance) who immediately contacts the manufacturer to make them put the product on hold, do an environmental swabbing program, enact corrective actions etc, etc.

I have worked for a couple of companies over the years who may have been a bit shady in regards to product quality but none of them would ever consider trying to hush up / cover up a positive pathogen detection or other such food safety issue. Because if you get caught you are going to jail. Simple as that.

But in China the political system is such that above all else the CCP must be seen as infalliable so the urge to cover up bad news / safe face is always the number 1 priority (even above the health of their citizens). No accountability leads to melamine in milk powder, pandemics being covered up, etc, etc.
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Nailed it.
Btw have they shut down the wet markets yet? Or are they still BAU?
 
Gralin said:
Again you're missing the point
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Your point was that the same thing that happened in China could happen here.

My post was to illustrate how the systems we have in place within our independant regulatory bodies are designed to prevent these from happening.

My point was that when a totalitarian government controls all aspects of society with zero accountability f..k ups like this will happen again and again.
 
Simon Crawshay said:
Your point was that the same thing that happened in China could happen here.

My post was to illustrate how the systems we have in place within our independant regulatory bodies are designed to prevent these from happening.

My point was that when a totalitarian government controls all aspects of society with zero accountability f..k ups like this will happen again and again.
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Are you advocating we shouldnt be cutting our red tape and green tape because its there to protect us ?
 
Hawk Dork said:
Are you advocating we shouldnt be cutting our red tape and green tape because its there to protect us ?
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Its not so much a point about red tape as it is a point about the independence of our regulatory bodies / courts / police from our political parties. In contrast to China where the CCP controls all aspects of society (no such thing as property law or a high court in China) and the issues that leads to (corruption, etc).
 
Simon Crawshay said:
Its not so much a point about red tape as it is a point about the independence of our regulatory bodies / courts / police from our political parties. In contrast to China where the CCP controls all aspects of society (no such thing as property law or a high court in China) and the issues that leads to (corruption, etc).
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So whistle blowing is important too, to make sure there is accountability
 

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Simon Crawshay said:
Your point was that the same thing that happened in China could happen here.

My post was to illustrate how the systems we have in place within our independant regulatory bodies are designed to prevent these from happening.

My point was that when a totalitarian government controls all aspects of society with zero accountability f..k ups like this will happen again and again.
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No that wasn't my point at all.
My point was that you can't put everything that has happened with covid down to the CCP.
You can't say that without the CCP this wouldn't have happened at all.
Pandemics have started where there isn't totalitarian communism.

I'm not saying the CCP should be blameless. They aren't. They should be accountable for this but who is going to make them?

I'm saying human nature and how diseases work are a lot more complicated than what type of political system your country is ruled by
 
Phil McCreviss said:
I live in Manhattan. It's transformed this city and it will likely never be the same again.

Trust me when I say this wave is coming to Australia. Be vigilant, stay indoors and don't take risks. It's incredibly selfish.

I don't want to sound like I am lecturing here but I walked past 2 makeshift morgues with bodies being removed. I don't want to see this happening in Australia.

Stay safe and healthy!
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That's scary. Apparently they have a lot of temporary testing facilities set up there too, have you seen any of them?
 
Nugett said:
Queensland held their council elections today. I made the conscious decision not to vote. I would much rather pay a non voting fine, rather than Risk my health and safety and those that I do come into contact with. Very poor decision in not post phoning it by the Queensland government. I will not be suprised if there is a spike in cases in the next 3/4 weeks.
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Smart man, its just not worth the risk. Compulsory voting is utterly nonsensical at the best of times and this is not the best of times.

With most of the state in possession of a mobile phone or broadband it should be asked why the poll could not have been conducted online.




Simon Crawshay said:
My point was that when a totalitarian government controls all aspects of society with zero accountability f..k ups like this will happen again and again.
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Good thing parliamentary democracies like Australia's, America and the UK have done such a sterling job responding to the crisis eh? :$




Phil McCreviss said:
I live in Manhattan. It's transformed this city and it will likely never be the same again.

Trust me when I say this wave is coming to Australia. Be vigilant, stay indoors and don't take risks. It's incredibly selfish.

I don't want to sound like I am lecturing here but I walked past 2 makeshift morgues with bodies being removed. I don't want to see this happening in Australia.

Stay safe and healthy!
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Best of luck riding out the storm Phil.

Much as I completely, utterly agree the shitstorm is headed our way and we should take every possible precaution, I think its also worth mentioning the situation in NY and Manhattan in particular may be an especially bad one for two reasons - close to the highest density of human beings per square mile of any area in the world, and it being one of if not the most visited cities on earth with people constantly arriving from almost everywhere.

Little wonder Corona would spread like wildfire in such a place, worse than elsewhere.
 
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Argy said:
They also banned them after SARS - and then re-opened them. Obviously didn't learn any lessons.
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It is not the wet markets that should be closed down. It is the sale of live exotic animals - snakes, bats, rats, mice, pangolins, civets, dogs, cats etc. A good clean wet market with a wide range of fresh seafood is a great place to shop (and eat).
 
Rushed_Behind said:
and their stock market up .03% from the time first announced.

I don’t care what anyone says, even if you don’t believe this was deliberate by China, they will be the only ones who benefit from this.
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It may not have been deliberately made, experts seem to think that would be extremely difficult. But I certainly believed once it was around, China wanted to let it rip through the western world.
 
HODGEYROAD said:
It may not have been deliberately made, experts seem to think that would be extremely difficult. But I certainly believed once it was around, China wanted to let it rip through the western world.
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Their economy is largely built manufacturing for the rest of the world.
They've got businesses starting up again with no demand for the goods.
 
Gralin said:
Gotta love how our government is helping people stranded overseas get home.
Negotiating for flights where the cost is on the person trying to get back.
So if you haven't got the $3000-5000 for the ticket you're f’ed.

And Qantas took hundreds of millions from the government, stood down two thirds of their workforce straight after and cancelled all sick leave including for people already using it for workplace injuries or those that contracted Corona while at work.

I hope people remember this. Pay attention to how the leaders and companies are acting. Remember who they look after.
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In Vietnam they put the call out over 2 months ago that all VN citizens were to get home asap
All flights for them were paid for by the government, when they arrived they were put into hotels for 14 days, with 3 meals a day and all expenses paid (hotel, internet access, daily visit from registered nurse, and housekeeping)
 
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