Mega Thread >>COVID-19 DISCUSSION THREAD<<

[Angry Red Bull]

There’s no such thing as risk free roll out imo even if you test everyone today.

wont go back over old ground with the fact you will be fine while many won’t be. I did find it slightly sad and funny the CMO reinforcing practices like hand hygiene and staying away if unwell will need to remain, shouldn’t they be standard

I could say the same thing to many here about being fine whilst others won’t be eg those over 80. Why was it again that you specifically made a point of the average age of deaths?.....perhaps to subtly try to make the case they as a category are less valuable and unworthy of being saved?. Jobkeeper takes you through to end September. Jobseeker dovetails job keeper. State grants available. Gee what more do you want? Someone coming to your door daily to spoon feed you? Many here are simply overstating the downside economic risk of this. There will be fallout mostly those that can’t get out of their own way. Anyone remotely self motivated will be fine. Sorry to be blunt but.... is

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Job

You can be blunt

I did make the point that ruining people’s futures economically educationally and heck life experience wise to save people over 80 who have had a good life is not right.

to be blunt salvaging granny for a few more years in the home isn’t as valuable, she’s had a life, she’s also welcome to still hide away, IF that is all it comes down to then I would l say society moves on , does its best to protect the sick but yeah I choose The figure above those who have passed the average life span (ideally I don’t want to choose) but if you don’t think this is ruining people financially you are ignorant

you actually think job keeper and job seeker are this magical cure that hasn’t missed anyone? ridiculous , there’s people suffering already
the government has even said those measures are 6 months max anyway, but that’s right you can wait forever for a vaccine, I’ve seen people already out of work and on nothing who don’t fit into government measures, but fu** them
I guess



So basically all you want is 25 million people to pause their life’s so someone sick and elderly has a slightly better chance to continue to delay death, to be blunt that’s more Selfish, guess the sick and elderly can’t just isolate and get out of their own way hey....

Pretty obvious that you don’t care for the vulnerable. Employees either:

- have a job and continue it albeit possibly from home
- have been retrenched because of economic downturn and most likely attract jobkeeper
- are retrenched ineligible for Jobkeeper and therefore atttact job seeker

There is no other category. That means all employees attract welfare or employment. That is massive

In terms of businesses job keeper and rent or mortgage moratorium often covers 70% of cost for a business. State govt grants are available up to $10k based on t/ o reduction. If you go into lockdown you control the vast majority of remainder costs many of which are discretionary. otherwise ring those you can’t stop and make arrangement for deferral. An example of 8 of my business clients:

- 2 of them profit from Jobkeeper meaning they are actually better off
- 1 also gets a grant furthering profit
- 1 has no downturn so is unaffected
- 1 is struggling abd resorted to job seeker which was more than income before
- 1 is no better off nor worse off than before
- 2 had downturn not eligible for job keeper but is reducing cost to survive and comfortably will

And me well I’m unaffected but have increased my discretionary spend to aid the flow of money in the economy to help others that need it

So just a small snapshot that shows no bad outcome from the economic effect

You want to peddle a negative picture not supported by the facts so you can push an agenda not necessary.

Let’s just agree to disagree shall we.

 

[Kapanis]

Job


Pretty obvious that you don’t care for the vulnerable. Employees either:

- have a job and continue it albeit possibly from home
- have been retrenched because of economic downturn and most likely attract jobkeeper
- are retrenched ineligible for Jobkeeper and therefore atttact job seeker

There is no other category. That means all employees attract welfare or employment. That is massive

In terms of businesses job keeper and rent or mortgage moratorium often covers 70% of cost for a business. State govt grants are available up to $10k based on t/ o reduction. If you go into lockdown you control the vast majority of remainder costs many of which are discretionary. otherwise ring those you can’t stop and make arrangement for deferral. An example of 8 of my business clients:

- 2 of them profit from Jobkeeper meaning they are actually better off
- 1 also gets a grant furthering profit
- 1 has no downturn so is unaffected
- 1 is struggling abd resorted to job seeker which was more than income before
- 1 is no better off nor worse off than before
- 2 had downturn not eligible for job keeper but is reducing cost to survive and comfortably will

And me well I’m unaffected but have increased my discretionary spend to aid the flow of money in the economy to help others that need it

So just a small snapshot that shows no bad outcome from the economic effect

You want to peddle a negative picture not supported by the facts so you can push an agenda not necessary.

Let’s just agree to disagree shall we.

Missing quit a few that are effected Puke. For example, my wife's contract with the council finishes tomorrow, no job keeper at all for council employees. If she attempts jobseeker she needs to be taken out of the casual pool at council so won't be contacted if any positions become available ( unlikely as the CEO has stated no extensions, new contracts and full time staff reallocated elsewhere where needed) unable to get jobseeker as my income and assets test makes her ineligible. We still have the same outgoings but now have half our combined income. Many more examples in my workplace where certain people are ineligible, I won't go through them all but not everyone is in a happy place ATM.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I could say the same thing to many here about being fine whilst others won’t be eg those over 80. Why was it again that you specifically made a point of the average age of deaths?.....perhaps to subtly try to make the case they as a category are less valuable and unworthy of being saved?. Jobkeeper takes you through to end September. Jobseeker dovetails job keeper. State grants available. Gee what more do you want? Someone coming to your door daily to spoon feed you? Many here are simply overstating the downside economic risk of this. There will be fallout mostly those that can’t get out of their own way. Anyone remotely self motivated will be fine. Sorry to be blunt but.... is

Well said, it's only for a short time anyway. Yes there are negative things, and you like me will want to go to the pub or whatever but I haven't seen much difference in my field either, in fact most are the same or a bit better off. Don't know what else governments are meant to do? They can't just open the whole country and thus putting an immediate strain on hospitals.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

If a council whic

Missing quit a few that are effected Puke. For example, my wife's contract with the council finishes tomorrow, no job keeper at all for council employees. If she attempts jobseeker she needs to be taken out of the casual pool at council so won't be contacted if any positions become available ( unlikely as the CEO has stated no extensions, new contracts and full time staff reallocated elsewhere where needed) unable to get jobseeker as my income and assets test makes her ineligible. We still have the same outgoings but now have half our combined income. Many more examples in my workplace where certain people are ineligible, I won't go through them all but not everyone is in a happy place ATM.

Council derives its revenue from owners and can adjust levies accordingly. failing to accept a responsibility to staff in this current environment means the guy is an ahole. I’d be shaming the dick
making it clear that he is undeserving of his position. Indeed I’d write to Premier avd take issue with his behaviour requesting intervention.

I said very early in this situation that we all need to look after any that slips between the cracks and those that wilfully seek to unnecessarily cause some pain need to be hammered

 

[Kapanis]

If a council whic

Council derives its revenue from owners and can adjust levies accordingly. failing to accept a responsibility to staff in this current environment means the guy is an ahole. I’d be shaming the dick
making it clear that he is undeserving of his position. Indeed I’d write to Premier avd take issue with his behaviour requesting intervention.

I said very early in this situation that we all need to look after any that slips between the cracks and those that wilfully seek to unnecessarily cause some pain need to be hammered

Its Scomos rules Puke, not the council. There are many slipping through the cracks. If my Mrs worked for say a Pty Ltd or multiple national she'd get the job keeper no problem because there is no assets test but on jobseeker there is.

A few other cases:
-Started a new employee in Nov 2019 as a casual, promoted to full-time March 3 2020: ineligible on both counts.
-Employee retired from full-time in Feb 2020 as he wanted to get his super paid out to help a family member. Wanted to come back as a casual after the super was settled etc, was re employed 15 march 2020: ineligible.
-Any casual staff employed within 12 months.
-We employ a lot of older workers, many have chosen to stay at home because of possible health issues to themselves, a family member (eg wife with cancer). Some are management meaning the stores are operating at reduced hours/days. In other words we are running out of staff.

We are trading at 25 % loss across the board but some stores, esp Melbourne are down 60% because of more stringent restrictions with rec boating. At some point we are going to have to shut operations there due to a number of factors but are reluctant to do so because its bloody impossible to get staff with the skill set needed and we want to keep our valued employees: no employees will get job keeper at that store because as group we are not at 30% downturn.

As you probably know job keeper is taxable for income tax for the employee and also company tax for the employer, so while Scomo and the Berg keep throwing around the $1500 figure, the reality is the figure is around $980 after tax; first they giveth then they taketh away.

 

[Millky95]

As you probably know job keeper is taxable for income tax for the employee and also company tax for the employer, so while Scomo and the Berg keep throwing around the $1500 figure, the reality is the figure is around $980 after tax; first they giveth then they taketh away.

Just an FYI so we have some facts going around.

Casual in 4 jobs. Only eligible for 1 of my employers (one school, one council, one as sole trader and the JK one is PAYG). Got a backpay of JK so essentially 2 payments. $3000. $384 withheld as tax. $2,616 total. Or $1,308 of a standard JK payment.

 

[Kapanis]

Just an FYI so we have some facts going around.

Casual in 4 jobs. Only eligible for 1 of my employers (one school, one council, one as sole trader and the JK one is PAYG). Got a backpay of JK so essentially 2 payments. $3000. $384 withheld as tax. $2,616 total. Or $1,308 of a standard JK payment.

Got it, but your employer while be taxed also depending on how they are placed financially pre and post corona to the end of the financial year.

 

[Millky95]

Got it, but your employer while be taxed also depending on how they are placed financially pre and post corona to the end of the financial year.

Given they are an events company and no more than 3/4s of a person are allowed to be in the same suburb of each other, I can be sure they are pretty much ****ed

 

[Kapanis]

Just an FYI so we have some facts going around.

Casual in 4 jobs. Only eligible for 1 of my employers (one school, one council, one as sole trader and the JK one is PAYG). Got a backpay of JK so essentially 2 payments. $3000. $384 withheld as tax. $2,616 total. Or $1,308 of a standard JK payment.

Also, as a casual employee depending on hours worked and now getting more with JK some will bracket jump and have a tax bill at years end.

Anyone on a pension (we have quite a few) and now have their income increased with JK will lose portions of their pension and some entitlements that come with it. Quite a few employees have opted out of JK, their choice to do so.

 

[Millky95]

Also, as a casual employee depending on hours worked and now getting more with JK some will bracket jump and have a tax bill at years end.

My wages vary so much year to year (plus worked over seas a bit last FY and this one) so I have no idea how I'll turn out

 

[Kapanis]

Given they are an events company and no more than 3/4s of a person are allowed to be in the same suburb of each other, I can be sure they are pretty much f’ed

There needs to be refinement JK for (a) companies who have shut down completely but hoping to get going again and (b)companies that are continuing to trade albeit with greatly reduced turnover and trying to make it to the other side.

 

[Kapanis]

My wages vary so much year to year (plus worked over seas a bit last FY and this one) so I have no idea how I'll turn out

Good luck Milky, wishing the best mate.

 

[Millky95]

There needs to be refinement JK for (a) companies who have shut down completely but hoping to get going again and (b)companies that are continuing to trade albeit with greatly reduced turnover and trying to make it to the other side.

I think my place will bounce back given once the bigger venues can start doing events again (another reason I want the footy back)

Good luck Milky, wishing the best mate.

Cheer mate. I am fortunate that because I worked on a cruise ship last year (a lot of they heat they are getting is undeserved imo) I never moved out because why rent a place you aren't living in? So whilst my pay might have gone down so have my expenditures greatly. So I can try to save more and still have plenty to spend on things to try and stimulate the economy. One block of cheese at a time

 

[Swansujelly]

it won't happen, but the higher newstart money should stay. Or universal income should be given a good looking at.

 

[caesar88]

I wonder what the reduced quarters and increased interchange benches will impact what the players rotations look like. The common procedure these days seems to be a player goes off right when he's on fire. To me that would seem counter-productive in a shortened format, as you really want to maximise a player's impact as best as you can in the limited time. Could we see match-winning types like Heeney, Buddy, Papley etc rested for the bulk of one quarter to be fresher to dominate another?

 

[Millky95]

it won't happen, but the higher newstart money should stay. Or universal income should be given a good looking at.

I've never been a fan of universal income. All it would do is inflate prices of everything and I know too many people that abuse the system as it currently is

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Its Scomos rules Puke, not the council. There are many slipping through the cracks. If my Mrs worked for say a Pty Ltd or multiple national she'd get the job keeper no problem because there is no partner or assets test but on jobseeker there is.

A few other cases:
-Started a new employee in Nov 2019 as a casual, promoted to full-time March 3 2020: ineligible on both counts.
-Employee retired from full-time in Feb 2020 as he wanted to get his super paid out to help a family member. Wanted to come back as a casual after the super was settled etc, was re employed 15 march 2020: ineligible.
-Any casual staff employed within 12 months.
-We employ a lot of older workers, many have chosen to stay at home because of possible health issues to themselves, a family member (eg wife with cancer). Some are management meaning the stores are operating at reduced hours/days. In other words we are running out of staff.

We are trading at 25 % loss across the board but some stores, esp Melbourne are down 60% because of more stringent restrictions with rec boating. At some point we are going to have to shut operations there due to a number of factors but are reluctant to do so because its bloody impossible to get staff with the skill set needed and we want to keep our valued employees: no employees will get job keeper at that store because as group we are not at 30% downturn.

As you probably know job keeper is taxable for income tax for the employee and also company tax for the employer, so while Scomo and the Berg keep throwing around the $1500 figure, the reality is the figure is around $980 after tax; first they giveth then they taketh away.

The govt shouldn’t have to pay councils because it’s taken for granted they should act responsibly and they’re not. That is the point.

I don’t know of anyone who derives a wage exempt from tax. Income tax should apply

In your circumstances get a deferral of rent. I’m assuming you don’t own each store. Chandlery? Rent would be a huge cost probably 15% of revenue. Negotiate it. Indeed my starting position would be a negotiated lower rent for 6 months for all locations enough so that the trouble in Melbourne can be subsidised from others. if you’ve had a good relationship they don’t really want to ruin that with short sighted hardass tactics. if you own then borrow from the banks and ask for low interest. Seek a deferral on payment of all BAS for 6 months and make sure it’s interest free.

What you are trying to do is smooth over your troubles to get by through this period. If turnover drops the BE point won’t change so you have to manage reduce costs and cashflow eg BAS so you get through

Cut the crap out of discretionary expenditure all stores.

The answers are there if you look hard enough.

Make sure reporting is accurate so that turnover eligibility is monitored.

 

[RW]

I've mentioned previously that I'm pretty much a pure Friedman-ite when it comes to the economy, but these are exceptional circumstances. This is 'market failure' for the economics nerds out there - IMO, the government will have to step in until the economy gets going again. This has crippled/shut down entire industries. And that means all options must be on the table, including universal income, at least until we get through this. Longer term I think the government should be looking at removing red tape and making it easier for people to start businesses and create jobs, but we're nowhere near that point yet.

 

[Kapanis]

The govt shouldn’t have to pay councils because it’s taken for granted they should act responsibly and they’re not. That is the point.

I don’t know of anyone who derives a wage exempt from tax. Income tax should apply

In your circumstances get a deferral of rent. I’m assuming you don’t own each store. Chandlery? Rent would be a huge cost probably 15% of revenue. Negotiate it. Indeed my starting position would be a negotiated lower rent for 6 months for all locations enough so that the trouble in Melbourne can be subsidised from others. if you’ve had a good relationship they don’t really want to ruin that with short sighted hardass tactics. if you own then borrow from the banks and ask for low interest. Seek a deferral on payment of all BAS for 6 months and make sure it’s interest free.

What you are trying to do is smooth over your troubles to get by through this period. If turnover drops the BE point won’t change so you have to manage reduce costs and cashflow eg BAS so you get through

Cut the crap out of discretionary expenditure all stores.

The answers are there if you look hard enough.

Make sure reporting is accurate so that turnover eligibility is monitored.

We will get through. Financially the company has been run and operated very well, extremely well. My main point is there are a lot of employees falling through the cracks across many sectors and not getting either job keeper or seeker.

 

[Kapanis]

I've mentioned previously that I'm pretty much a pure Friedman-ite when it comes to the economy, but these are exceptional circumstances. This is 'market failure' for the economics nerds out there - IMO, the government will have to step in until the economy gets going again. This has crippled/shut down entire industries. And that means all options must be on the table, including universal income, at least until we get through this. Longer term I think the government should be looking at removing red tape and making it easier for people to start businesses and create jobs, but we're nowhere near that point yet.

Freidman-ite I aint RW, surely Fraser and his treasurer proved the inadequacies well and truly.

 

[Swansujelly]

I've never been a fan of universal income. All it would do is inflate prices of everything and I know too many people that abuse the system as it currently is

woulsn't have much effect on inflation, and any would be countered by increased supply, creating jobs, over time., and how do you rort something that everyone gets?

 

[Millky95]

woulsn't have much effect on inflation, and any would be countered by increased supply, creating jobs, over time., and how do you rort something that everyone gets?

One of those too good t be true kinda things. Idk. I've always been a work get an income kinda person. Self employed or otherwise. Maybe the way I was brought up.

 

[Olian]

I've mentioned previously that I'm pretty much a pure Friedman-ite when it comes to the economy, but these are exceptional circumstances. This is 'market failure' for the economics nerds out there - IMO, the government will have to step in until the economy gets going again. This has crippled/shut down entire industries. And that means all options must be on the table, including universal income, at least until we get through this. Longer term I think the government should be looking at removing red tape and making it easier for people to start businesses and create jobs, but we're nowhere near that point yet.

If you looked at budget estimates from last year we were scrapping a surplus of a few billion before the bushfires this financial year ($505bn of income verses spending of $501bn). National debt was a bit under 20% of GDP a conservative amount. Fast forward a year and income has dropped significantly and spending has gone through the roof. All of this on the back of debt and large amounts of it. Will be interesting to see how the budget intends to stimulate the economy. Very easy to turn everything off but somewhat harder to start it again.

 

[Swansujelly]

One of those too good t be true kinda things. Idk. I've always been a work get an income kinda person. Self employed or otherwise. Maybe the way I was brought up.

it's not supposed to replace an income from work as such, and certainly you would still have bludgers, that's unavoidable. You can then abolish all other welfare payments and gov departments relating to it, as it would fall under the ato. Pipedream stuff tho.