Mega Thread >>COVID-19 DISCUSSION THREAD<<

[GotTheGoodes]

The pure arrogance and stupidity of people to literally not follow any of the government advice, ignore blatant laws and instructions and even doubt the legitamacy of this entire pandemic, and then turn around and attack the government for our continuing outbreak is infuriating.

They've only been saying it every day publicly like clockwork for 2 months.

You don't know better than them.

It's maddening, and its never felt more hopeless that no matter what for every one person who do everything possible to help it feels like there are 15 people doing fu** all or sabotaging everyone elses efforts. And then pass the buck for their own actions.

Could not have expressed my feelings about this any better mate. I completely, 110% agree and feel the same.

Selfishness is why this pandemic is allowed to grow.

Be it the idiot teenagers who want to have a party or go to a club to the retirees who refuse to listen because they are entitled and think their experience means they "know better"... So many people are so bloody selfish and are risking our strong position in this pandemic all for their own selfish self interest and ignorance.

In my experience, and I'm sure it's different for everyone, but in my experience havign been exposed to these types the most through my profession... I have had a high proportion of wealthy boomer types who are the main instigators causing my frustration at their lack of following the rules.

I had one boomer the other day say how she had a fever and cough but went on a wine tour with 15 other people because "she knows her body and it wasn't anything to worry about. Thsi COVID stuff is all a beat up anyway. It's just a cold."

I kid you f**kin not.

Then there's (mainly) those (usually) boomers who just flitter about, making snide comments and "jokes" about "ohhhh, we better socially diiiistannnceee (lelelel)" ... On the one hand ignoring all warnings, making light of health advice and mentioning how they aren't impacted at all and this is all a huge over-reaction... then on the other hand still demanding they get every single possible financial benefit (that they don't need) out of a government that they love to criticise. They want their $10000 grant and $50000 cash flow boost and Jobkeeper and so on and so on... But also want to deride and pretend they are suddenly experts in the area and this is all a beat up or doesn't impact them (but they should still get the $$).

Self interest and selfishness will bring about a 2nd wave and lock us all down again before anything else.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

this whole things fu**en overblown

ive followed every instruction, im not an anarchist

but a few more in their 90s died today, boo hoo

People died FFS. Seriously. That's poor.

 

[The King!]

People died FFS. Seriously. That's poor.

Yeah it’s sad for them but lots of people don’t get to 90

That’s a good knock

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Yeah it’s sad for them but lots of people don’t get to 90

That’s a good knock

No mate. That was f**kin poor and you are better than that.

If that was a family member of yours & I said that how would you feel? Seriously.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Surely you mean Americans? Since they have the most infections the people benefit most from a vaccine.

No not Americans at all. First the poverty stricken then the vulnerable elderly and sick

Agree it's NSW turn next - yesterday's data

The nsw numbers whilst increasing come virtually entirely from known contacts and therefore represents lower risk because they are. The contact tracing is working. In contrast Melbourne has uncontrolled transmission where contact tracing is no longer possible. They are then reliant on lockdown measures. High risk

 

[The King!]

Boo hoo to those families, huh?


I haven't worked since Feb because of this thing. I'd kill to be able to go to work and complain about the motherf***er who doesn't know how to talk into a microphone properly. Hard to go back to life when that life is pretty much dead. Unlike some, I'd rather not have my at risk Nan, mum or dad die when they could easily have another 10+ years. Same with other people's families.

Did the gov fu** up HQ? Yes. Does that give people an excuse to go out when they have symptoms and awaiting test results? No.

But boo hoo to those that died or in dire straits because some campaigners want to go eat out on ******* credit anyway.

fu**.

It’s a stretch to say I’m saying stiff shit to the families versus looking at stats and looking at costing people their lives in others ways

My grandmother is 90 id be sad if she dies tomorrow , was sad when my great grandmother died a few years ago at 93
That happens literally every day though and we don’t ask people like you to **** their future up

It’s a discussion wether people like it or not

Now there’s a difference between having the discussion imo and violating directions

People breaking the rules/law are always wrong, but I’m just saying I get people being annoyed at these rules as they are just made up day after day, Also when ****wits want to protest it’s ok to some **** that

I wasn’t aware you can beat a disease hiding indefinitely but good luck with it I guess

I stand by it from a stats point of view if the average age of death is 80 plus so what

If that’s heartless oh well too bad

 

[The King!]

No mate. That was f**kin poor and you are better than that.

If that was a family member of yours & I said that how would you feel? Seriously.

Ridiculous
Get off the high horse it needs to be a logical discussion it affects the whole country and whole world it’s not about individual families members near death, I’m
I would feel sad they died and celebrate their well lived life. Given she sits there doing f all waiting to die there would be some relief

I’m more concerned about the young people’s lives being ruined if you put those In their twilight ahead then we will have to agree to disagree

I’m more concerned with people losing jobs, livelihood and quality of life who have decades to live not minutes

It’s always sad when someone dies that goes without saying surely? Just protect them then and lock them down

 

[The King!]

At some point wether you like it or not the government will make decisions that effectively mean those in a high age bracket will be More likely to die than normal

You can face it now or fact it in 6 months and see what collateral damage you get, maybe it’s not about our individual old relatives and time to care more about society but that’s just me

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I’m not going to buy into another argument. Its just disappointing. My mother is 93 so essentially you are saying booo hooo to me were she to die. I don’t for one second believe you actually think that. So stop being controversial as a means of trying to be macho if that is your intent. It doesn’t come off that way. It shows you in poor light is all mate. Think about it please

 

[GotTheGoodes]

It’s a stretch to say I’m saying stiff sh*t to the families versus looking at stats and looking at costing people their lives in others ways

My grandmother is 90 id be sad if she dies tomorrow , was sad when my great grandmother died a few years ago at 93
That happens literally every day though and we don’t ask people like you to fu** their future up

It’s a discussion wether people like it or not

Now there’s a difference between having the discussion imo and violating directions

People breaking the rules/law are always wrong, but I’m just saying I get people being annoyed at these rules as they are just made up day after day, Also when *******s want to protest it’s ok to some fu** that

I wasn’t aware you can beat a disease hiding indefinitely but good luck with it I guess

I stand by it from a stats point of view if the average age of death is 80 plus so what

If that’s heartless oh well too bad

I have very very direct connections, and discussions with, people on the front line of this (Doctors in ICU etc)... And the current health advice is that social distancing and isolation measures are indeed the best way to reduce the spread of COVID-19. So, yes, you can "beat a disease hiding" from it. In fact, it is one of the most commonly agreed forms of prevention available to society in fighting it.

Of course practically we have take a negotiated spot as we need to look out for economic and social implications, but purely from a health perspective, ignoring everything else, in a perfect world, locking down the world right now would be the best course of action to reduce any more people dying from this pandemic... But we all know we can't (& shouldn't) do that.

But we are agreed on one thing - People need to follow the rules and not break the law. If the law says isolate or distance then do so. Simple. They are the experts, not you or I.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

At some point wether you like it or not the government will make decisions that effectively mean those in a high age bracket will be More likely to die than normal

You can face it now or fact it in 6 months and see what collateral damage you get, maybe it’s not about our individual old relatives and time to care more about society but that’s just me

I posted recently about vaccines all 160 of them. You presuppose that there is no avenue of escape from this other than ‘let rip’. That’s not the case at all. At my count there are 3 ways out each requiring delay and control

- developing treatments uniformly preventing death
-developing vaccine universally giving immunity (likely available January)
- creating control that will suppress as long as conceivable

We are not seeking to hide from a disease indefinitely. We are seeking to delay and suppression for about 7 months at which time everyone can survive.

 

[The King!]

I have very very direct connections, and discussions with, people on the front line of this (Doctors in ICU etc)... And the current health advice is that social distancing and isolation measures are indeed the best way to reduce the spread of COVID-19. So, yes, you can "beat a disease hiding" from it. In fact, it is one of the most commonly agreed forms of prevention available to society in fighting it.

Of course practically we have take a negotiated spot as we need to look out for economic and social implications, but purely from a health perspective, ignoring everything else, in a perfect world, locking down the world right now would be the best course of action to reduce any more people dying from this pandemic... But we all know we can't (& shouldn't) do that.

But we are agreed on one thing - People need to follow the rules and not break the law. If the law says isolate or distance then do so. Simple. They are the experts, not you or I.

Absolutely on your last point

Look my boo hoo might be flippant so i after that can be worded better it’s been a **** of a day to be bloody honest , saw two more
People lose jobs today not sure how they don’t end up on the streets soon so bit frustrated sorry today

I have a few friends on the hospital doctor and nurse etc 2 of each in fact and they don’t agree between them

I don’t think what Victoria is doing will make much if any difference because it isn’t actually joe blow doing it , don’t hire security on a what’s app

But again regardless I may not agree with punishments for pedos but I won’t go kill them myself

That’s why anyone who protests in nsw this weekend should be punished heavily

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Ridiculous
Get off the high horse it needs to be a logical discussion it affects the whole country and whole world it’s not about individual families members near death, I’m
I would feel sad they died and celebrate their well lived life. Given she sits there doing f all waiting to die there would be some relief

I’m more concerned about the young people’s lives being ruined if you put those In their twilight ahead then we will have to agree to disagree

I’m more concerned with people losing jobs, livelihood and quality of life who have decades to live not minutes

It’s always sad when someone dies that goes without saying surely? Just protect them then and lock them down

Ok. Look. My partner is a doctor.

The idea this is "just a cold" and that it just impacts "those in their twilight" isn't fair or helpful at all.

I've heard of first hand accounts of people who don't need to die and otherwise wouldn't have who do die, because of this pandemic. Usually, they are already sick or have underlying issues (e.g. cancer patients, thsoe with auto-immune disease etc) or they are elderly and unable to "cope" with the severity of what is much much more than "just a cold".

My partner has showed me videos of previously fit & healthy mid-30's struggling on ventilators (among other things). The reason elderly die is because the ventilators are given to those most likely to survive (being the mid-30s fit & healthy). That is why the death rate in places where the hospitals are overwhelemd are so heavily stacked toward elderly. They are less able to cope with teh severity of what is a severe, life-threatening disease & they are also on the bottom of the list when it comes to "who to save". Which is sad but true.

The attitude of "this isn't a big deal" is just so ridiculous to me. I don't want my partner to be put in a position of choosing to let someone die (who otherwise wouldn't have) because of this attitude and I'll be damned if I don't stand up and call out people who have it.

Nothing personal. I respect your opinion I just think it's dangerous and ill-informed.

 

[The King!]

Ok. Look. My partner is a doctor.

The idea this is "just a cold" and that it just impacts "those in their twilight" isn't fair or helpful at all.

I've heard of first hand accounts of people who don't need to die and otherwise wouldn't have who do die, because of this pandemic. Usually, they are already sick or have underlying issues (e.g. cancer patients, thsoe with auto-immune disease etc) or they are elderly and unable to "cope" with the severity of what is much much more than "just a cold".

My partner has showed me videos of previously fit & healthy mid-30's struggling on ventilators (among other things). The reason elderly die is because the ventilators are given to those most likely to survive (being the mid-30s fit & healthy). That is why the death rate in places where the hospitals are overwhelemd are so heavily stacked toward elderly. They are less able to cope with teh severity of what is a severe, life-threatening disease & they are also on the bottom of the list when it comes to "who to save". Which is sad but true.

The attitude of "this isn't a big deal" is just so ridiculous to me. I don't want my partner to be put in a position of choosing to let someone die (who otherwise wouldn't have) because of this attitude and I'll be damned if I don't stand up and call out people who have it.

Nothing personal. I respect your opinion I just think it's dangerous and ill-informed.

I didn’t say it wasn’t dangerous I’m just saying the deaths can be further analysed and sorry it is relevant

The case numbers aren’t as important as icu and hospital

And locking and unlocking society and killing people’s futures isn’t a strategy

There needs to be long term thinking

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Autopsies of victims have shown that this virus attacks the body creating blood clots IN EVERY organ. It is insidious and entirely unexpected. They are now thinking that blood thinners may help. The further we get down the road the better chance we have to defeat it. Full stop

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I didn’t say it wasn’t dangerous I’m just saying the deaths can be further analysed and sorry it is relevant

The case numbers aren’t as important as icu and hospital

And locking and unlocking society and killing people’s futures isn’t a strategy

There needs to be long term thinking

The last time I calculated death rates it was about 1.3%. That is if you have hospitals functioning to control it. If you don’t the death rate becomes hugely problematic much higher.

 

[Kennedy Parker]

At some point wether you like it or not the government will make decisions that effectively mean those in a high age bracket will be More likely to die than normal

You can face it now or fact it in 6 months and see what collateral damage you get, maybe it’s not about our individual old relatives and time to care more about society but that’s just me

Out of interest do you have a limiting principle to this? Like to what extent would government prioritisation of economic interests at the expense of the safety of elderly people would it be unacceptable?

What I'm reading is somewhat of a utilitarian/consequentialist "the greater good" moral framework. And it doesn't take too much of a logical extension to lead to some pretty ugly conclusions. For example, the government could say from that perspective, "hey we have to get people's livelihoods back on track, this Covid treatment thing is kinda expensive for the taxpayer so let's cut healthcare funding and redirect it to stimulus projects. Sure more vulnerable people are gonna die but for the broader population it'll help the economy come back quicker and get people's livelihoods back."

Whenever I try to rationalise and take the utilitarian perspective to its logical extreme I always end up coming to 5 Wolves and a Sheep deciding what to eat for dinner type scenarios.

Not trying to play gotcha here so if that's a mischaracterisation of what you mean feel free to clarify.

 

[Millky95]

I hope when this finally passes there are 2 things we can get out of this:

1. Working from home is a more viable option for a lot of businesses than they originally thought and could really help with those seeking a work life balance
2. The "gig economy" and having to have multiple casual jobs to make a living is not sustainable

 

[Kirkswan]

I don't think that you (as in general you all, not any personal you) fully understand what will happen if the pandemic takes hold, without any of the measures currently in place.

We will have tens of thousands of sick people, not going to work and unable to care for themselves, go to the shops etc. Then while they are still in the recovery stage, we will have tens of thousands more... ever increasing at a 2.5:1 ratio. Slowly, we are hearing about the significant long term effects of the illness, which will drag recovery out even longer. Even those who report mild doses with limited to no symptoms are starting to report issues later on.

If this really gets going in Australia, there's a significant, ever increasing risk of losing a significant portion of the workforce for a lot longer that a few months. If it becomes rampant, we're in deep, deep poo!

It doesn't matter which way the Govt goes, there is going to be a significant financial impact. However in the long term, most govts agree that a short term pain for a long term gain will be much better than a long, drawn out battle that will cost both lives and the economy.

 

[The King!]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

98 percent of people worldwide recover from covid, so not sure why it suddenly ruins out country more than anywhere else

As it is in Victoria they arent allowing people to work or care for themselves anyway


people want to live in fear, good luck with that, disease and health challenges have always existed and always will,

 

[Kirkswan]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

98 percent of people worldwide recover from covid, so not sure why it suddenly ruins out country more than anywhere else

As it is in Victoria they arent allowing people to work or care for themselves anyway


people want to live in fear, good luck with that, disease and health challenges have always existed and always will,

No-one said they don't recover... All that means is they are no longer carrying an active virus!

Can we have the stats for those who are already back to their normal lives?

Can we also have the stats for the emerging reports of damaged lungs and other organs in those that have recovered?

What about the increasing numbers of 30-50 year olds that are being hospitalised?

I'm not advocating for a permanent shut down here, but I really would like to see some semblance of control.

 

[The King!]

No-one said they don't recover... All that means is they are no longer carrying an active virus!

Can we have the stats for those who are already back to their normal lives?

Can we also have the stats for the emerging reports of damaged lungs and other organs in those that have recovered?

What about the increasing numbers of 30-50 year olds that are being hospitalised?

I'm not advocating for a permanent shut down here, but I really would like to see some semblance of control.

you can find your own stats surely, you are the one worried about it

id like to see a push to return peoples freedoms CLOSER to normal sooner than later, like most states have managed too bar one

 

[Kirkswan]

you can find your own stats surely, you are the one worried about it

id like to see a push to return peoples freedoms CLOSER to normal sooner than later, like most states have managed too bar one

Nuh-uh, I'm not going looking for stats... but I reckon you need the complete set to see the whole picture!

I'm still not with you... I think the Govts first responsibility is to the health and well-being of its people.

So now lets debate the 'well-being' part of that health and well-being!

 

[sataris]

I'm still not with you... I think the Govts first responsibility is to the health and well-being of its people.

This has literally never been true.

 

[Kirkswan]

This has literally never been true.

That may be true... but 'never' is a long time and there have been many govts...

what is there first priority?