Mega Thread >>COVID-19 DISCUSSION THREAD<<

[sataris]

That may be true... but 'never' is a long time and there have been many govts...

what is there first priority?

Wealth, or you can call it 'the economy' if you want to be naive.

People are a means to an end, and children are just future taxpayers (This is why baby bonuses exist, future guaranteed income for a paltry $10,000 loss leader)

Governments care about you or me for 1 day every 3 years.

 

[The King!]

Nuh-uh, I'm not going looking for stats... but I reckon you need the complete set to see the whole picture!

I'm still not with you... I think the Govts first responsibility is to the health and well-being of its people.

So now lets debate the 'well-being' part of that health and well-being!

ok closing down business/borders nationally And internationally is a suicide pact not a cure and will do more long term damage

(not suggesting business as normal tomorrow) but this scare mongering hide inside stuff is getting beyond a joke, we need strategic thinking or everyone will be outside poverty stricken and ill anyway.

 

[The King!]

Wealth, or you can call it 'the economy' if you want to be naive.

People are a means to an end, and children are just future taxpayers (This is why baby bonuses exist, future guaranteed income for a paltry $10,000 loss leader)

Governments care about you or me for 1 day every 3 years.

bingo, and they have backed themselves into a corner now,

 

[Kirkswan]

Wealth, or you can call it 'the economy' if you want to be naive.

People are a means to an end, and children are just future taxpayers (This is why baby bonuses exist, future guaranteed income for a paltry $10,000 loss leader)

Governments care about you or me for 1 day every 3 years.

Lol! That's what they do, not what they are meant to do... or even why they are voted in!

And no, I'm not naive enough to believe that

 

[Kirkswan]

ok closing down business/borders nationally And internationally is a suicide pact not a cure and will do more long term damage

(not suggesting business as normal tomorrow) but this scare mongering hide inside stuff is getting beyond a joke, we need strategic thinking or everyone will be outside poverty stricken and ill anyway.

I disagree re the suicide pact thing altogether, so I'm just going to leave that alone...

From memory (feel free to correct me) NSW has a population of roughly 7.5 M, Victoria 6.5 M, and WA 2.5 M. Victoria's population is triple the size of WA in 1/8 of the space. So states with limited populations and limited COVID cases, can close their borders much more easily that the big population centres.

Border closing depends on the size and spread of your population, WA is doing okay for the most part, TAS too; but Sydney and Melbourne are not similar them at all. Not closing their borders earlier may have been a mistake, but they were trying to do the very thing you are talking about... save jobs, livelihoods and companies.

I think that the stay home, wear a mask and isolate is a definitely strategy; and one that has worked, and is working, in places where people abide by it.

If there's a better strategy that provides better results, then I'd love to hear it... until then, I'll support this one.

 

[scaryness]

I didn’t say it wasn’t dangerous I’m just saying the deaths can be further analysed and sorry it is relevant

The case numbers aren’t as important as icu and hospital

And locking and unlocking society and killing people’s futures isn’t a strategy

There needs to be long term thinking

Regarding the young people's futures that you are concerned about, frankly, the ball is in their court and plenty of them are ****ing it up. We have the directives and advice, we know they work because we have seen it work overseas and in our own backyard only a few months ago, and it's repeated ad nausem so there's no possible chance you can miss it.

The young people of Victoria are just as liable for refusing to follow the directives and are just as responsible for their own futures as the government is. But we are refusing to take responsibility of our own actions or inactions and just shoving it all onto the scapegoat which is currently Dan Andrews, and it if it wasn't him it would be whoever else was in his spot.

That's what I'm tired of, I'm tired of the shirking and blaming everyone else because it shows that people are not going to learn, and if we don't learn we are going to be roughing this for months.

 

[swansfan51]

Out of interest do you have a limiting principle to this? Like to what extent would government prioritisation of economic interests at the expense of the safety of elderly people would it be unacceptable?

Here is a very simple example to show that we make these decisions all the time.

If the speed limit on all roads was reduced to 20km/h there would be hundreds of lives saved every year. The speed limit will not be reduced to 20 km/h. We make a decision that the benefit of road traffic outweighs the cost.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Here is a very simple example to show that we make these decisions all the time.

If the speed limit on all roads was reduced to 20km/h there would be hundreds of lives saved every year. The speed limit will not be reduced to 20 km/h. We make a decision that the benefit of road traffic outweighs the cost.

What utter nonsense. The death rate is only marginally connected to a causation of speed limits. every single one of them is due to human mistake which is available to be controlled by all drivers whatever the speed limit. This virus if running rampant will infect and kill and no amount of mitigation will completely protect you.

I find many of the views here repugnant. I’m not going to fight them. The government is mostly doing the right thing. Its the idiots who know better than government are in lower risk category that want to flaunt rules and screw it placing lives at risk. For those who don’t like government restriction and mitigation tactics just suck it up

What I’ve learnt in this process is that there are a great many people who have zero humanity and are entirely self centred.

 

[Olian]

So there have been ~126 deaths in Australia (population of Australia 25.5 million) at an average of close to 80. Only three deaths to those under 60.

Around 38 ICU beds occupied 36 of those in Victoria.

183 hospitalised in total, 174 of those in Victoria.

We run a real risk of falling for the hysteria. More people die of pneumonia each year but we don’t stop society for that. There has to be a balance.

We need to live wth the virus like we do with many other viruses for which there is no vaccine. Currently we are running away from the issue but have no where to run.

 

[MarkP]

The death toll from rushing and max vaccinating the worlds population will only be outdone by a continual lock down of society.

You wait until govenment assistance stops and the suicide rate along with crime etc kicks right in AND we are yet to even think about how to pay this all back.

What utter nonsense. The death rate is only marginally connected to a causation of speed limits. every single one of them is due to human mistake which is available to be controlled by all drivers whatever the speed limit. This virus if running rampant will infect and kill and no amount of mitigation will completely protect you.

I find many of the views here repugnant. I’m not going to fight them. The government is mostly doing the right thing. Its the idiots who know better than government are in lower risk category that want to flaunt rules and screw it placing lives at risk. For those who don’t like government restriction and mitigation tactics just suck it up

What I’ve learnt in this process is that there are a great many people who have zero humanity and are entirely self centred.

Bolded not even close to being to being true. Next sentence is laughable.

Test the running rampant one with the death rate from the flu last year to this one.

The flu killed 4 times as many people last year to date than this chinese virus and so far this year the flu has killed 70 odd which is 3/4 of the wuhan sourced flu.

And the rest.....

 

[Tedeski]

Stay safe everyone!

 

[MarkP]

Stay safe everyone!

Good and sensible advice.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

One failing in the current advisories is the lack of emphasis to people cleared by testing. Unfortunately the testing is not prospective and the virus can be contracted immediately following a test.

The nature of 'recovery' is being questioned. Most survive but many have what looks like enduring health issues. Of further concern is UK research casting doubt on the level of immunity granted with the UK research showing the immunity level dissipates.

 

[The King!]

The death toll from rushing and max vaccinating the worlds population will only be outdone by a continual lock down of society.

You wait until govenment assistance stops and the suicide rate along with crime etc kicks right in AND we are yet to even think about how to pay this all back.


Bolded not even close to being to being true. Next sentence is laughable.

Test the running rampant one with the death rate from the flu last year to this one.

The flu killed 4 times as many people last year to date than this chinese virus and so far this year the flu has killed 70 odd which is 3/4 of the wuhan sourced flu.

And the rest.....

Perhaps we shut down those who want it now and then look after them for the next few months

Then they can pay 80% tax or something the rest of their lives to cover the cost of the ridiculous over the top restrictions to save the 90 year olds

 

[The King!]

Quick wear your masks lol

 

[The King!]

Stay safe everyone!

Wise

 

[Nool Carpenna]

Here is a very simple example to show that we make these decisions all the time.

If the speed limit on all roads was reduced to 20km/h there would be hundreds of lives saved every year. The speed limit will not be reduced to 20 km/h. We make a decision that the benefit of road traffic outweighs the cost.

People die on roads because of incompetence, inattentiveness, acts of god, but mostly because of somebody breaking the law, not because the government sets “risky” speed limits.
But if by chance you know of any documentation that proves otherwise, my lawyer would love to see it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The death toll from rushing and max vaccinating the worlds population will only be outdone by a continual lock down of society.

You wait until govenment assistance stops and the suicide rate along with crime etc kicks right in AND we are yet to even think about how to pay this all back.


Bolded not even close to being to being true. Next sentence is laughable.

Test the running rampant one with the death rate from the flu last year to this one.

The flu killed 4 times as many people last year to date than this chinese virus and so far this year the flu has killed 70 odd which is 3/4 of the wuhan sourced flu.

And the rest.....

So all the people in power both in government and epidemiologists in health governance are just fabricating stuff on the basis of hysteria......because you know better. Have you gone off your meds?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So there have been ~126 deaths in Australia (population of Australia 25.5 million) at an average of close to 80. Only three deaths to those under 60.

Around 38 ICU beds occupied 36 of those in Victoria.

183 hospitalised in total, 174 of those in Victoria.

We run a real risk of falling for the hysteria. More people die of pneumonia each year but we don’t stop society for that. There has to be a balance.

We need to live wth the virus like we do with many other viruses for which there is no vaccine. Currently we are running away from the issue but have no where to run.

On current projections vaccines will be available from January. We need to hold on until then and the best way for that is to control spread as the government is attempting. The USA has something like 3.7m infections and hasn’t reached peak yet and some 140k deaths. That is the path with idiots at the helm. Fortunately here in AUST our idiots only flaunt lockdown rules and populate footy websites too it seems so we have a chance

 

[MarkP]

People die on roads because of incompetence, inattentiveness, acts of god, but mostly because of somebody breaking the law, not because the government sets “risky” speed limits.
But if by chance you know of any documentation that proves otherwise, my lawyer would love to see it.

Go ask Modi.

India raised the speed limit on highways to 100.

Carnage ensued.

Limit dropped to 80.

Carnage stopped.

Yes people still died but there is a indisputable link to speed and death rates.

I mean why even have speed limits. What are they there for? If the thesis is it is everything else but speed why have any limits?

Another case in point people were driving incredibly fast on the lead up to weekends on the LA to Vegas run. The death rate was appalling. Increasing fines did not work. Constant police presence, signage, advertising everything was tried to SLOW people down to save lives. No one cared it was just another "bet" on the way to have a bet.

Know what they did - they started to send out police cars to drive side by side at the posted speed limit so no one could pass. They slowed the traffic to the speed limit by physical barrier.

Death rate plummeted.

Argue whatever you want re the Wuhan flu and social distancing, government overreach etc but for the love of God, factually on all levels there is direct correlation between speed and deaths on roads. It is indisputable with all other factors being equal.

Give me your lawyers number and I will toss him a call. I am sure we will have great talk and maybe if you have characterised him well enough he might actually learn something.

 

[BloodySwan]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

98 percent of people worldwide recover from covid, so not sure why it suddenly ruins out country more than anywhere else

As it is in Victoria they arent allowing people to work or care for themselves anyway


people want to live in fear, good luck with that, disease and health challenges have always existed and always will,

Did you even read the article that you linked?

I'll highlight some more interesting parts

CFR = deaths / (deaths + recovered)

which, with the latest data available, would be equal to:

630,193 / (630,193 + 9,349,201) = 6% CFR (worldwide)

If we now exclude cases in mainland China, using current data on deaths and recovered cases, we get:

625,559 / (625,559 + 9,270,346) = 6.3% CFR (outside of mainland China)

It's worth noting this with countries going into lockdown and managing it. Italy got to a mortality rate of 15%!

Italy COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Italy Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Olian]

On current projections vaccines will be available from January. We need to hold on until then and the best way for that is to control spread as the government is attempting. The USA has something like 3.7m infections and hasn’t reached peak yet and some 140k deaths. That is the path with idiots at the helm. Fortunately here in AUST our idiots only flaunt lockdown rules and populate footy websites too it seems so we have a chance

As at 9pm last night in Australia. Sourced from the Health department.
3.6mn test for 0.4% positive tests.



Of the 214 hospitalised only 42 are in ICU (40 in Vic).

Someone posted a month ago that we were close to eradication and it was achievable. Clearly they were smarter than everyone else on this thread.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

As at 9pm last night in Australia. Sourced from the Health department.
3.6mn test for 0.4% positive tests.

View attachment 917575

Of the 214 hospitalised only 42 are in ICU (40 in Vic).

Someone posted a month ago that we were close to eradication and it was achievable. Clearly they were smarter than everyone else on this thread.

That was me that posted we were close to eradication and we were. They merely needed lockdown for another two weeks and we were likely there. I also posted that it was now greater risk to maintain suppression whilst opening up all of which is entirely consistent with current situation. Imo they lost control of their tracing in vic and is why we are now having a train wreck. And it may be able to get under control again but no certainty there

 

[swansfan51]

People die on roads because of incompetence, inattentiveness, acts of god, but mostly because of somebody breaking the law, not because the government sets “risky” speed limits.
But if by chance you know of any documentation that proves otherwise, my lawyer would love to see it.

Are you actually disputing that more people die in 110km/h zones than in 20km/h zones?

There is plenty of evidence on that, I'd prefer if we can make a sizeable bet first

 

[Nool Carpenna]

Go ask Modi.

India raised the speed limit on highways to 100.

Carnage ensued.

Limit dropped to 80.

Carnage stopped.

Yes people still died but there is a indisputable link to speed and death rates.

I mean why even have speed limits. What are they there for? If the thesis is it is everything else but speed why have any limits?

Another case in point people were driving incredibly fast on the lead up to weekends on the LA to Vegas run. The death rate was appalling. Increasing fines did not work. Constant police presence, signage, advertising everything was tried to SLOW people down to save lives. No one cared it was just another "bet" on the way to have a bet.

Know what they did - they started to send out police cars to drive side by side at the posted speed limit so no one could pass. They slowed the traffic to the speed limit by physical barrier.

Death rate plummeted.

Argue whatever you want re the Wuhan flu and social distancing, government overreach etc but for the love of God, factually on all levels there is direct correlation between speed and deaths on roads. It is indisputable with all other factors being equal.

Give me your lawyers number and I will toss him a call. I am sure we will have great talk and maybe if you have characterised him well enough he might actually learn something.

No shit? Speed kills hey? Who’d’a thunk it?

Doesn’t mean the government is happy to impose unsafe speed limits because they anticipate only x amount of fatalities due to said speed limit.