Mega Thread >>COVID-19 DISCUSSION THREAD<<

[The King!]

Which part is actually scary?

If the media and pollies just treat it like any other disease it’s not that bad

It’s worrying (like any disease) but this collective worldwide pants pissing is so over the top

Locking down was to flatten a curve now suddenly is a strategy what a joke it has become

 

[MarkP]

Interesting pre covid 34 people a day died in nursing homes in vic

I will preface this wall of text by saying I was hesitant to post it but whatever. You are right to point out people die in these facilities at an alarming rate anyway.

My wife is an RN in aged care.

People don't understand the deaths are in facilities that, because of societal pressure, are keeping people alive far longer than is feasible or normal. Also in a lot of cases on the publics dime because of governmental rules regardless of family wishes. Also people confuse and conflate retirement homes and hostels with nursing homes. They are different.

My wifes facility is quite old. She only has roughly 45 beds occupied right now. She loses 1 a week to a fortnight (sort of 10 days) on average anyway. Also all but 1 person currently in care has dementia to some extent - some completely gone with it. Why is that important? Her facility, like most of them, is not a dementia facility by design, but de facto has become one.

We are talking about poor people that forget to swallow. Some are so old you touch them and their skin rips. Literally rips. Some are violent and disorientated in a lot of cases. They have no way of being able to understand how to be clean or Chinese flu safe. Even if they understand it they forget. They cannot look after themselves and are at all times in the extreme high risk category of infection. Most of them cannot toilet themselves.

How are you supposed to keep these people safe in a facility not designed for them when they have lost mental faculties?

And all this bullshit you hear with the likes of Fran Kelly whining about having a "surge" workforce ready to go is fanciful. You ask any aged care facility in the state and they will tell you they struggle to fill normal shifts. In good times. Now if you have sniffle it is mandatory 2 weeks off and Covid testing. Nurses are in high demand everywhere and to suggest we can just have a surge workforce waiting in the wings is fanciful. They are relatively low paying jobs with the added bonus of police reports tossed against you (they are mandatory in any situation of complaint) if granny has a bruise. Simply getting one of these people up, washed, dressed and fed breakfast with medicine rounds is extremely time consuming. Having to feed someone who forgets to chew and swallow is not easy nor quick.

Another fun fact - if 2 dementia patients in nursing homes hit each other that is roughly 2 hours of written reports and a mandatory report to the police who have to attend to investigate. Can you imagine how hard it is to keep disorientated people away from each other? You have to be very, very, careful about how you report incidents to your superiors. Word it wrong and off to the coppers we go along with reports to higher authorities. It is a shit work environment.

And studies have now been done. Wearing PPE for Wuhan flu and doing normal tasks, when using proper PPE protocol, takes 5 times, yes 5 times, as long. Do you know how many times you have to wash your hands donning or exiting PPE under the rules? It would shock you.

If they die with Covid then I would be surprised if that is what did it for them anyway. They are ready to go regardless. It may have been the final push but when you are overbalanced for a long time the cliff ledge is it really that final zephyr of wind that makes you fall the cause of the fall - or is it the fact you stood on the brink and lent over for so long?

It is so sad to see it. People have this totally unrealistic expectation of how these people are going and how much modern medicine keeps people alive well past the time the body is ready to give up.

Having said that Cuomo's farce of deliberately stacking Covid patients into nursing homes in NY was always going to end up in mass deaths. Any infection in a nursing home is a disaster. Stacking them in with this contagious respiratory one was murder plain and simple.

The wife lost 5 people one week a few years ago from a gastro bug. Flu season is always bad anyway.

None of this is surprising nor is it wrong. It just is. With or without the Wuhan flu - thanks China you communist pricks in the party.

My 2 cents is nursing homes and other high risk facilities like hospitals should be locked down hard, rest of society gets on with it just like Sweden. If you are generally of poor health take precautions. Normal people carry on.

Sweden was held up to be a disaster by the msm. Now there are basically nil deaths a day you don't hear peep from the msm.

This is interesting and worth the read. We should have done it like Sweden. Click on the tweet but make sure you read the whole thread. Interesting stuff.



The msm of America and our own have a lot to answer for. Twitter and Facebook too. They have been an absolute disgrace in all of this. And I mean the admins and people that for political purposes making this worse than it should be.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292873236716433416.html threadreader for those that want it.

I wondered whether to post this but the continual bashing of nursing homes and hand wringing by msm people because "granny died" is beyond the pale. They don't understand it. They don't want to understand. They simply think you throw bodies and money at it, lock your country and destroy peoples lives in a different way, and fixed - but that is a false premise.

 

[Millky95]

Which part is actually scary?

If the media and pollies just treat it like any other disease it’s not that bad

It’s worrying (like any disease) but this collective worldwide pants pissing is so over the top

Locking down was to flatten a curve now suddenly is a strategy what a joke it has become


View attachment 934386

 

[scaryness]

Oxford vaccine is probably good to go anyway. We wouldnt have multiple countries ordering millions of doses and producing the vaccine if they werent bloody confident.

Australia is already negotiating some doses of it.

 

[Millky95]

I love a good vaccine as much as the next bloke but this quickly? Wasn't the quickest we ever made a vaccine like 4 years?

 

[Jewelsbon]

I will preface this wall of text by saying I was hesitant to post it but whatever. You are right to point out people die in these facilities at an alarming rate anyway.

My wife is an RN in aged care.

People don't understand the deaths are in facilities that, because of societal pressure, are keeping people alive far longer than is feasible or normal. Also in a lot of cases on the publics dime because of governmental rules regardless of family wishes. Also people confuse and conflate retirement homes and hostels with nursing homes. They are different.

My wifes facility is quite old. She only has roughly 45 beds occupied right now. She loses 1 a week to a fortnight (sort of 10 days) on average anyway. Also all but 1 person currently in care has dementia to some extent - some completely gone with it. Why is that important? Her facility, like most of them, is not a dementia facility by design, but de facto has become one.

We are talking about poor people that forget to swallow. Some are so old you touch them and their skin rips. Literally rips. Some are violent and disorientated in a lot of cases. They have no way of being able to understand how to be clean or Chinese flu safe. Even if they understand it they forget. They cannot look after themselves and are at all times in the extreme high risk category of infection. Most of them cannot toilet themselves.

How are you supposed to keep these people safe in a facility not designed for them when they have lost mental faculties?

And all this bullshit you hear with the likes of Fran Kelly whining about having a "surge" workforce ready to go is fanciful. You ask any aged care facility in the state and they will tell you they struggle to fill normal shifts. In good times. Now if you have sniffle it is mandatory 2 weeks off and Covid testing. Nurses are in high demand everywhere and to suggest we can just have a surge workforce waiting in the wings is fanciful. They are relatively low paying jobs with the added bonus of police reports tossed against you (they are mandatory in any situation of complaint) if granny has a bruise. Simply getting one of these people up, washed, dressed and fed breakfast with medicine rounds is extremely time consuming. Having to feed someone who forgets to chew and swallow is not easy nor quick.

Another fun fact - if 2 dementia patients in nursing homes hit each other that is roughly 2 hours of written reports and a mandatory report to the police who have to attend to investigate. Can you imagine how hard it is to keep disorientated people away from each other? You have to be very, very, careful about how you report incidents to your superiors. Word it wrong and off to the coppers we go along with reports to higher authorities. It is a sh*t work environment.

And studies have now been done. Wearing PPE for Wuhan flu and doing normal tasks, when using proper PPE protocol, takes 5 times, yes 5 times, as long. Do you know how many times you have to wash your hands donning or exiting PPE under the rules? It would shock you.

If they die with Covid then I would be surprised if that is what did it for them anyway. They are ready to go regardless. It may have been the final push but when you are overbalanced for a long time the cliff ledge is it really that final zephyr of wind that makes you fall the cause of the fall - or is it the fact you stood on the brink and lent over for so long?

It is so sad to see it. People have this totally unrealistic expectation of how these people are going and how much modern medicine keeps people alive well past the time the body is ready to give up.

Having said that Cuomo's farce of deliberately stacking Covid patients into nursing homes in NY was always going to end up in mass deaths. Any infection in a nursing home is a disaster. Stacking them in with this contagious respiratory one was murder plain and simple.

The wife lost 5 people one week a few years ago from a gastro bug. Flu season is always bad anyway.

None of this is surprising nor is it wrong. It just is. With or without the Wuhan flu - thanks China you communist pricks in the party.

My 2 cents is nursing homes and other high risk facilities like hospitals should be locked down hard, rest of society gets on with it just like Sweden. If you are generally of poor health take precautions. Normal people carry on.

Sweden was held up to be a disaster by the msm. Now there are basically nil deaths a day you don't hear peep from the msm.

This is interesting and worth the read. We should have done it like Sweden. Click on the tweet but make sure you read the whole thread. Interesting stuff.



The msm of America and our own have a lot to answer for. Twitter and Facebook too. They have been an absolute disgrace in all of this. And I mean the admins and people that for political purposes making this worse than it should be.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292873236716433416.html threadreader for those that want it.

I wondered whether to post this but the continual bashing of nursing homes and hand wringing by msm people because "granny died" is beyond the pale. They don't understand it. They don't want to understand. They simply think you throw bodies and money at it, lock your country and destroy peoples lives in a different way, and fixed - but that is a false premise.

Your wife is a real life hero Mark, not just now but all the time. I cannot fathom how hard and heartbreaking her work would be, both physically and mentally.
To use a word that is bandied about much too often, her and her kind are true LEGENDS!

 

[scaryness]

I love a good vaccine as much as the next bloke but this quickly? Wasn't the quickest we ever made a vaccine like 4 years?

IIRC the Oxford one was pretty much a carryover from the work they started on SARS and MERS. They already had a foundation and just updated it (layman's terms)

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I will preface this wall of text by saying I was hesitant to post it but whatever. You are right to point out people die in these facilities at an alarming rate anyway.

My wife is an RN in aged care.

People don't understand the deaths are in facilities that, because of societal pressure, are keeping people alive far longer than is feasible or normal. Also in a lot of cases on the publics dime because of governmental rules regardless of family wishes. Also people confuse and conflate retirement homes and hostels with nursing homes. They are different.

My wifes facility is quite old. She only has roughly 45 beds occupied right now. She loses 1 a week to a fortnight (sort of 10 days) on average anyway. Also all but 1 person currently in care has dementia to some extent - some completely gone with it. Why is that important? Her facility, like most of them, is not a dementia facility by design, but de facto has become one.

We are talking about poor people that forget to swallow. Some are so old you touch them and their skin rips. Literally rips. Some are violent and disorientated in a lot of cases. They have no way of being able to understand how to be clean or Chinese flu safe. Even if they understand it they forget. They cannot look after themselves and are at all times in the extreme high risk category of infection. Most of them cannot toilet themselves.

How are you supposed to keep these people safe in a facility not designed for them when they have lost mental faculties?

And all this bullshit you hear with the likes of Fran Kelly whining about having a "surge" workforce ready to go is fanciful. You ask any aged care facility in the state and they will tell you they struggle to fill normal shifts. In good times. Now if you have sniffle it is mandatory 2 weeks off and Covid testing. Nurses are in high demand everywhere and to suggest we can just have a surge workforce waiting in the wings is fanciful. They are relatively low paying jobs with the added bonus of police reports tossed against you (they are mandatory in any situation of complaint) if granny has a bruise. Simply getting one of these people up, washed, dressed and fed breakfast with medicine rounds is extremely time consuming. Having to feed someone who forgets to chew and swallow is not easy nor quick.

Another fun fact - if 2 dementia patients in nursing homes hit each other that is roughly 2 hours of written reports and a mandatory report to the police who have to attend to investigate. Can you imagine how hard it is to keep disorientated people away from each other? You have to be very, very, careful about how you report incidents to your superiors. Word it wrong and off to the coppers we go along with reports to higher authorities. It is a sh*t work environment.

And studies have now been done. Wearing PPE for Wuhan flu and doing normal tasks, when using proper PPE protocol, takes 5 times, yes 5 times, as long. Do you know how many times you have to wash your hands donning or exiting PPE under the rules? It would shock you.

If they die with Covid then I would be surprised if that is what did it for them anyway. They are ready to go regardless. It may have been the final push but when you are overbalanced for a long time the cliff ledge is it really that final zephyr of wind that makes you fall the cause of the fall - or is it the fact you stood on the brink and lent over for so long?

It is so sad to see it. People have this totally unrealistic expectation of how these people are going and how much modern medicine keeps people alive well past the time the body is ready to give up.

Having said that Cuomo's farce of deliberately stacking Covid patients into nursing homes in NY was always going to end up in mass deaths. Any infection in a nursing home is a disaster. Stacking them in with this contagious respiratory one was murder plain and simple.

The wife lost 5 people one week a few years ago from a gastro bug. Flu season is always bad anyway.

None of this is surprising nor is it wrong. It just is. With or without the Wuhan flu - thanks China you communist pricks in the party.

My 2 cents is nursing homes and other high risk facilities like hospitals should be locked down hard, rest of society gets on with it just like Sweden. If you are generally of poor health take precautions. Normal people carry on.

Sweden was held up to be a disaster by the msm. Now there are basically nil deaths a day you don't hear peep from the msm.

This is interesting and worth the read. We should have done it like Sweden. Click on the tweet but make sure you read the whole thread. Interesting stuff.



The msm of America and our own have a lot to answer for. Twitter and Facebook too. They have been an absolute disgrace in all of this. And I mean the admins and people that for political purposes making this worse than it should be.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292873236716433416.html threadreader for those that want it.

I wondered whether to post this but the continual bashing of nursing homes and hand wringing by msm people because "granny died" is beyond the pale. They don't understand it. They don't want to understand. They simply think you throw bodies and money at it, lock your country and destroy peoples lives in a different way, and fixed - but that is a false premise.

It’s entirely interesting the article you refer to about pre existing T cell immunity. Possible impact no doubt. Dr Peter Collignon addressed the extremes in approach between the Swedish method and that of NZ at the other end of spectrum. His view was that it would take a full 2 years to determine which approach proves more successful. His current view (as of 5 days ago) is that neither will prove optimum success. Rather his advocacy is behind the NSW approach where huge effort has been made on contract tracing....hard lockdowns eased and mitigate outbreaks through quarantine

Whatever model is adopted it should be flexible to the multitude of factors constantly changing- better treatments- proximity of viable vaccines- more accurate death rates- economic impact- health system capacity. Its a balancing act certainly. I tend to agree that NSW has got it just about perfect in response.

We now have viable treatments in many places in the world ....convalescent plasma and stem cells (UAE) being two of the more successful.
Now Vic has had sufficient infection numbers recovering my reading suggests we are adopting convalescent plasma as a treatment which will help reduce deaths further domestically

We are not going to go through something like this without damage. I suspect we have done a rather good job. There has been economic impact but the blow lessened by government initiatives. We have limited the deaths. Eased lockdowns as soon as was possible.

You and your partners perceptions of the state of aged care inhabitants are spot on I feel. But because people are elderly or incapacitated frail or demented to degree in no way ever diminishes their right to life and certainly not as some trade off for what’s beneficial to greater community in their sacrifice. It’s an ethical position it’s not.

 

[RW]

It would be amazing if the vaccine works, but I'm not getting my hopes up yet.

 

[The King!]

Yeah quick get me the vaccine in case the disease with the 98 percent survival rate gets me

I’m not anti Vax person but some rushed concoction is not exactly tempting

 

[Millky95]

Yeah quick get me the vaccine in case the disease with the 98 percent survival rate gets me

I’m not anti Vax person but some rushed concoction is not exactly tempting

Pump in into the most at risk areas, then schools. It will go through the correct trials I hope. Which is why I'd prefer it made here not overseas

 

[Kirkswan]

I will preface this wall of text by saying I was hesitant to post it but whatever. You are right to point out people die in these facilities at an alarming rate anyway.

My wife is an RN in aged care.

People don't understand the deaths are in facilities that, because of societal pressure, are keeping people alive far longer than is feasible or normal. Also in a lot of cases on the publics dime because of governmental rules regardless of family wishes. Also people confuse and conflate retirement homes and hostels with nursing homes. They are different.

My wifes facility is quite old. She only has roughly 45 beds occupied right now. She loses 1 a week to a fortnight (sort of 10 days) on average anyway. Also all but 1 person currently in care has dementia to some extent - some completely gone with it. Why is that important? Her facility, like most of them, is not a dementia facility by design, but de facto has become one.

We are talking about poor people that forget to swallow. Some are so old you touch them and their skin rips. Literally rips. Some are violent and disorientated in a lot of cases. They have no way of being able to understand how to be clean or Chinese flu safe. Even if they understand it they forget. They cannot look after themselves and are at all times in the extreme high risk category of infection. Most of them cannot toilet themselves.

How are you supposed to keep these people safe in a facility not designed for them when they have lost mental faculties?

And all this bullshit you hear with the likes of Fran Kelly whining about having a "surge" workforce ready to go is fanciful. You ask any aged care facility in the state and they will tell you they struggle to fill normal shifts. In good times. Now if you have sniffle it is mandatory 2 weeks off and Covid testing. Nurses are in high demand everywhere and to suggest we can just have a surge workforce waiting in the wings is fanciful. They are relatively low paying jobs with the added bonus of police reports tossed against you (they are mandatory in any situation of complaint) if granny has a bruise. Simply getting one of these people up, washed, dressed and fed breakfast with medicine rounds is extremely time consuming. Having to feed someone who forgets to chew and swallow is not easy nor quick.

Another fun fact - if 2 dementia patients in nursing homes hit each other that is roughly 2 hours of written reports and a mandatory report to the police who have to attend to investigate. Can you imagine how hard it is to keep disorientated people away from each other? You have to be very, very, careful about how you report incidents to your superiors. Word it wrong and off to the coppers we go along with reports to higher authorities. It is a sh*t work environment.

And studies have now been done. Wearing PPE for Wuhan flu and doing normal tasks, when using proper PPE protocol, takes 5 times, yes 5 times, as long. Do you know how many times you have to wash your hands donning or exiting PPE under the rules? It would shock you.

If they die with Covid then I would be surprised if that is what did it for them anyway. They are ready to go regardless. It may have been the final push but when you are overbalanced for a long time the cliff ledge is it really that final zephyr of wind that makes you fall the cause of the fall - or is it the fact you stood on the brink and lent over for so long?

It is so sad to see it. People have this totally unrealistic expectation of how these people are going and how much modern medicine keeps people alive well past the time the body is ready to give up.

Having said that Cuomo's farce of deliberately stacking Covid patients into nursing homes in NY was always going to end up in mass deaths. Any infection in a nursing home is a disaster. Stacking them in with this contagious respiratory one was murder plain and simple.

The wife lost 5 people one week a few years ago from a gastro bug. Flu season is always bad anyway.

None of this is surprising nor is it wrong. It just is. With or without the Wuhan flu - thanks China you communist pricks in the party.

My 2 cents is nursing homes and other high risk facilities like hospitals should be locked down hard, rest of society gets on with it just like Sweden. If you are generally of poor health take precautions. Normal people carry on.

Sweden was held up to be a disaster by the msm. Now there are basically nil deaths a day you don't hear peep from the msm.

This is interesting and worth the read. We should have done it like Sweden. Click on the tweet but make sure you read the whole thread. Interesting stuff.



The msm of America and our own have a lot to answer for. Twitter and Facebook too. They have been an absolute disgrace in all of this. And I mean the admins and people that for political purposes making this worse than it should be.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1292873236716433416.html threadreader for those that want it.

I wondered whether to post this but the continual bashing of nursing homes and hand wringing by msm people because "granny died" is beyond the pale. They don't understand it. They don't want to understand. They simply think you throw bodies and money at it, lock your country and destroy peoples lives in a different way, and fixed - but that is a false premise.

Very well said, I don't necessarily agree with it all, but mostly (imo) you got nursing homes dead right...

With one notable exception... Most of those who live in a nursing home and still have cognition, just want it to be over! They're bored, lonely and totally dependent on others for the first time in years... they, on the whole, would much prefer to have been left at home to die! The idea that you can lock them up and leave them to rot for what looks like being up to 12 months is appalling to them...

 

[Kirkswan]

Hey Victorian Swannies, I'm thinking it must be about half way through your lock down, so I just wanted to say I hope you are all travelling okay... From my NSW perspective, the numbers are looking good and they should let you out as promised. Hang in there... and feel free to vent! Maybe we can get another win this week to give you something to smile about... Oops, forgot Rampe's out... well never mind, maybe Hawthorn will lose to cheer you up! Thinking of you all and wishing you well

 

[swansfan51]

Yeah quick get me the vaccine in case the disease with the 98 percent survival rate gets me

I’m not anti Vax person but some rushed concoction is not exactly tempting

CDC projections have a 99.3% survival rate but 99.4 - 99.5% appears more realistic based on the more recent data

This recent paper estimates 0.3% IFR for ages 0-59 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160895v3

 

[robbieando]

Convalescent Plasma for COVID-19. A randomized clinical trial

Background After recovery from COVID-19, most patients have anti-SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies. Their convalescent plasma could be an inexpensive and widely available treatment for COVID-19. Methods The Convalescent-plasma-for-COVID (ConCOVID) study was a randomized trial comparing...

www.medrxiv.org

The Convalescent-plasma-for-COVID (ConCOVID) study was a randomized trial comparing convalescent plasma with standard of care therapy in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 in the Netherlands. Patients were randomized 1:1 and received 300ml of plasma with anti-SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibody titers of at least 1:80. The primary endpoint was day-60 mortality and key secondary endpoints were hospital stay and WHO 8-point disease severity scale improvement on day 15. Results The trial was halted prematurely after 86 patients were enrolled. Although symptomatic for only 10 days (IQR 6-15) at the time of inclusion, 53 of 66 patients tested had anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies at baseline. A SARS-CoV-2 plaque reduction neutralization test showed neutralizing antibodies in 44 of the 56 (79%) patients tested with median titers comparable to the 115 donors (1:160 vs 1:160, p=0.40). These observations caused concerns about the potential benefit of convalescent plasma in the study population and after discussion with the data safety monitoring board, the study was discontinued. No difference in mortality (p=0.95), hospital stay (p=0.68) or day-15 disease severity (p=0.58) was observed between plasma treated patients and patients on standard of care.

F.D.A.’s Emergency Approval of Blood Plasma Is Now on Hold (Published 2020)

Government health leaders including Dr. Francis S. Collins and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci urged caution last week, citing weak data from the country’s largest plasma study.

www.nytimes.com

Last week, just as the Food and Drug Administration was preparing to issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a Covid-19 treatment, a group of top federal health officials including Dr. Francis S. Collins and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci intervened, arguing that emerging data on the treatment was too weak, according to two senior administration officials.
The authorization is on hold for now as more data is reviewed, according to H. Clifford Lane, the clinical director at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

As Trump Praises Plasma, Researchers Struggle to Finish Critical Studies (Published 2020)

Thousands of Covid-19 patients have been treated with blood plasma outside of rigorous clinical trials — hampering research that would have shown whether the therapy worked.

www.nytimes.com

Can this golden serum, loaded with antibodies against a pathogen, actually heal the sick?

The truth is that no one knows if it works.

Since April, the Trump administration has funneled $48 million into a program with the Mayo Clinic, allowing more than 53,000 Covid-19 patients to get plasma infusions. Doctors and hospitals desperate to save the sickest patients have been eager to try a therapy that is safe and might work. Tens of thousands more people are now enrolled to get the treatment that’s been trumpeted by everyone from the president to the actor Dwayne Johnson, better known as The Rock.

But the unexpected demand for plasma has inadvertently undercut the research that could prove that it works. The only way to get convincing evidence is with a clinical trial that compares outcomes for patients who are randomly assigned to get the treatment with those who are given a placebo. Many patients and their doctors — knowing they could get the treatment under the government program — have been unwilling to join clinical trials that might provide them with a placebo instead of the plasma.

“Without a randomized control trial, it’s very difficult to be certain that what you have is meaningful,” he said.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Convalescent Plasma for COVID-19. A randomized clinical trial

Background After recovery from COVID-19, most patients have anti-SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibodies. Their convalescent plasma could be an inexpensive and widely available treatment for COVID-19. Methods The Convalescent-plasma-for-COVID (ConCOVID) study was a randomized trial comparing...

www.medrxiv.org

The Convalescent-plasma-for-COVID (ConCOVID) study was a randomized trial comparing convalescent plasma with standard of care therapy in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 in the Netherlands. Patients were randomized 1:1 and received 300ml of plasma with anti-SARS-CoV-2 neutralizing antibody titers of at least 1:80. The primary endpoint was day-60 mortality and key secondary endpoints were hospital stay and WHO 8-point disease severity scale improvement on day 15. Results The trial was halted prematurely after 86 patients were enrolled. Although symptomatic for only 10 days (IQR 6-15) at the time of inclusion, 53 of 66 patients tested had anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies at baseline. A SARS-CoV-2 plaque reduction neutralization test showed neutralizing antibodies in 44 of the 56 (79%) patients tested with median titers comparable to the 115 donors (1:160 vs 1:160, p=0.40). These observations caused concerns about the potential benefit of convalescent plasma in the study population and after discussion with the data safety monitoring board, the study was discontinued. No difference in mortality (p=0.95), hospital stay (p=0.68) or day-15 disease severity (p=0.58) was observed between plasma treated patients and patients on standard of care.

F.D.A.’s Emergency Approval of Blood Plasma Is Now on Hold (Published 2020)

Government health leaders including Dr. Francis S. Collins and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci urged caution last week, citing weak data from the country’s largest plasma study.

www.nytimes.com

Last week, just as the Food and Drug Administration was preparing to issue an emergency authorization for blood plasma as a Covid-19 treatment, a group of top federal health officials including Dr. Francis S. Collins and Dr. Anthony S. Fauci intervened, arguing that emerging data on the treatment was too weak, according to two senior administration officials.
The authorization is on hold for now as more data is reviewed, according to H. Clifford Lane, the clinical director at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

As Trump Praises Plasma, Researchers Struggle to Finish Critical Studies (Published 2020)

Thousands of Covid-19 patients have been treated with blood plasma outside of rigorous clinical trials — hampering research that would have shown whether the therapy worked.

www.nytimes.com

Can this golden serum, loaded with antibodies against a pathogen, actually heal the sick?

The truth is that no one knows if it works.

Since April, the Trump administration has funneled $48 million into a program with the Mayo Clinic, allowing more than 53,000 Covid-19 patients to get plasma infusions. Doctors and hospitals desperate to save the sickest patients have been eager to try a therapy that is safe and might work. Tens of thousands more people are now enrolled to get the treatment that’s been trumpeted by everyone from the president to the actor Dwayne Johnson, better known as The Rock.

But the unexpected demand for plasma has inadvertently undercut the research that could prove that it works. The only way to get convincing evidence is with a clinical trial that compares outcomes for patients who are randomly assigned to get the treatment with those who are given a placebo. Many patients and their doctors — knowing they could get the treatment under the government program — have been unwilling to join clinical trials that might provide them with a placebo instead of the plasma.

“Without a randomized control trial, it’s very difficult to be certain that what you have is meaningful,” he said.

From what I understand convalescent plasma is directed to the most severe cases. There was a clinical test done for 10 severe cases (and at severe status the prognosis is not so good) and the CP uniformly had a significant impact on immune response and clinical outcome. It plays a role in preventing death for severe cases presumably because initial immune response is slow or low for those cases

The interesting one is UAE treatment which involves using stem cells characterising them for Covid and then returning it by inhalation to prevent lung damage and disease progression. I think all countries have differing ethical standards as to implementation so it may not be picked up elsewhere but you only need to look at worldwide stats to measure UAE success in death prevention

 

[Nool Carpenna]

CDC projections have a 99.3% survival rate but 99.4 - 99.5% appears more realistic based on the more recent data

This recent paper estimates 0.3% IFR for ages 0-59 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160895v3

Nothing like a few “projections“ to add weight to your argument.... especially from an “independent” agency like the CDC.
How about these factual stats... 22.5m cases and 790000 deaths? I’m no mathematical genius but I think that works out to roughly 3.5% yeah?
Now sadly for you and your ilk, it seems the majority of the planet puts value on all lives not just those that fall into low risk category but I understand your need to repeatedly vent about your perception of wrongdoing.
Speaking of perceptions... if you are going to quote an article and then provide the link to it, perhaps you should at least be accurate.... “This recent paper estimates 0.3% IFR for ages 0-59“ ... that is not what the article says! Minor detail I know but it might induce scepticism about the validity of your statistics.

 

[cherub]

Mortality is the most extreme index of impact of the disease. For everyone that dies, significantly more have long term disability-heart disease, lung damage, neurological changes. Death is the easiest statistic to collect, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Many of those that ultimately recover suffer severe joint pain and chronic fatigue.

 

[The King!]

Mortality is the most extreme index of impact of the disease. For everyone that dies, significantly more have long term disability-heart disease, lung damage, neurological changes. Death is the easiest statistic to collect, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Many of those that ultimately recover suffer severe joint pain and chronic fatigue.

Well when you just label every death covid it’s bound to have some remarkable symptoms for those who “survive” it, given it’s such a catch all disease

But still hardly worth pushing for endless shut downs to existence

They aren’t living in Victoria right now for instance , just existing

Given they are unlikely to get the above it’s beyond ludicrous to live in fear

I mean we might all get shot tomorrow , governments role is not to control our lives and those who support it are selfish at this point imo

 

[The King!]

Pump in into the most at risk areas, then schools. It will go through the correct trials I hope. Which is why I'd prefer it made here not overseas

Stop holding it over people as the only way to get their basic freedom back would be nice

But yeah inject all the nervous nellies and that should be enough, see if they drop off and then inject the rest of us I guess

 

[The King!]

Not really the point at all

But nice fancy charts

 

[Millky95]

Not really the point at all

But nice fancy charts

My point was the way your attitude at times comes across.

 

[The King!]

My point was the way your attitude at times comes across.

I disagree (obviously ) that’s just the easy way to dismiss any pushback

Hey would have had 50,00 deaths without these restrictions

Now it’s working if you question you are just complaining

I don’t consider having restrictions on and off to be working , not denying they were a way to go early when things were new, not denying they have had some effect, I still wouldn’t have gone that way but whatever I get the the point

But we need long term strategies that allow life to continue

People are suffering more from the solution than the disease

I also think most people who do agree with me would be too scared or just can’t be bothered speaking up in places like this because you get shouted down by bleeding heart fools (not you at all)

 

[Nool Carpenna]

So if you’re concerned about contracting a potentially fatal disease or spreading it throughout the community, you’re a nervous nelly... but if you’re concerned about lockdowns because of a perceived threat to mankind through an irreversible breakdown of economics you’re not? I think I get it

 

[Millky95]

I disagree (obviously ) that’s just the easy way to dismiss any pushback

Hey would have had 50,00 deaths without these restrictions

Now it’s working if you question you are just complaining

I don’t consider having restrictions on and off to be working , not denying they were a way to go early when things were new, not denying they have had some effect, I still wouldn’t have gone that way but whatever I get the the point

But we need long term strategies that allow life to continue

People are suffering more from the solution than the disease

I also think most people who do agree with me would be too scared or just can’t be bothered speaking up in places like this because you get shouted down by bleeding heart fools (not you at all)

I think in a different world where that hotel didn't have it's issue (with guards or staff or people who didn't listen to the rules or whatever the cause was) AND we exited stage 3 with masks/face coverings, we wouldn't be in this position we are in now. Which is why we need to get it right this time around or there will be no going back and we will end up like the US because the health system can't cope.

Yes, people are suffering from this disease and a lot are suffering from the lockdown and the situation put on them. And it ****ing sucks all the way around. What gets me through the night and something I need to remind my mum of (who wants to break lockdown so she can see her grandchildren) is that we aren't the US. We aren't having thousands of people die a day which would include people like her mother, husband, children, close friends and others, which includes high risk and low risk people. We want to be like NZ and NZ got there by doing what we are doing now.

Personally, I have always been happy to cop short term pain for long term gain. Which is why I was happy with the first lockdown and jobkeeper (as broad concepts). This second lockdown does feel like a kick in the balls and like we are being punished for other people's mistakes (and bad luck). So we need to get it right this time.

I don't think anyone would do a 3rd lockdown. It won't happen and it can't happen. I am fully expecting to never shake someone's hand or not wear a mask to work/on a date/going out for another 3 years or so, but if we can get numbers down now we don't have to do this again.

A second wave was always going to happen. IMO, it is happening in NSW now. It was always a matter of how bad will it be. Unfortunately, a combination of botched HQ, complacency coming out of S3 (BLM protests, people not giving a shit in general, no masks) and bad luck has made the 2nd wave worse than it could have been.

We just have to get it right and have things go our way this time. And our 3rd wave (when it happens) can be more like QLD or NSW and we don't get pushed indoors like this again.

But that's just me. Maybe I'm an optimist. Maybe I am too accepting of getting punched in the face. I just hate the "it's not that bad" and "we overreacted" comments when all you have to do is look at other countries and realise that is is that bad.