Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

[Miguel Sanchez]

Why McGowan’s plan won’t work

Senior health experts have hit out at Premier Mark McGowan after he announced a delay in reopening the West Australian border despite Omicron already spreading in the state.

www.news.com.au

Looks like McGowan forgot to get the medical experts on board before he "took their advice" in delaying the border opening. Delicious.

The medical experts who disagree with him there are the head of the AMA, who’s disagreed with everything he’s done, and Coatsworth who’s not exactly been a great source of expertise so far.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

Why McGowan’s plan won’t work

Senior health experts have hit out at Premier Mark McGowan after he announced a delay in reopening the West Australian border despite Omicron already spreading in the state.

www.news.com.au

Looks like McGowan forgot to get the medical experts on board before he "took their advice" in delaying the border opening. Delicious.

Two medical experts (the head of the AMA, which is a lobbying organisation, and Dr Nick Coatsworth) - neither of whom live in Western Australia - are quoted in this article, which is written by a woman who works for NewsCorp.

 

[the harry]

In 2020 and 2021, there WAS a global pandemic in which 5 million people died. Most of whom needlessly because public health policy refused to use early treatment and in some cases criminalised medical intervention to maximise the medical monopoly on supply of vaccines as preventative treatment.

Few questions

What early treatment was refused?

Do you understand what "monopoly" refers to?

How was this orchestrated across a myriad of different countries with differing motivations?

 

[Balls In]

Two medical experts (the head of the AMA, which is a lobbying organisation, and Dr Nick Coatsworth) - neither of whom live in Western Australia - are quoted in this article, which is written by a woman who works for NewsCorp.

Head of the AMA lives in Perth (I thought) and is no lightweight especially as his members are Drs and they would be in the firing line of opening up. Plus the head of the ICU and you could assume many of the now 1300 sigs that are trending in that petition. The head of the nurses union has had a fair old crack as well. The criticism is also extremely diverse, they aren't just having a acrack at him not opening up they are also critical of his preparedness overall.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Not sure if he still lives in Perth, but Dr Khorshid lived here in 2012 at least, because that's when he reconstructed my left knee.

 

[Balls In]

I'd honestly like to know what spooked McGowan over the 'opening' date. What was different than a week or a month prior. Because I think that is what most folks who are upset are questioning: what was the difference?

Ignoring that Feb 5 was a pretty terrible date to have chosen, being the first week of school returning. You've got a date which causes a lot of people's transportation to change, and within the same week you want to weaken the state's defence against transmission.

I'm beginning to think that's what was being pointed out to the premier, and he finally realised that may have been a bad idea.

I reckon it was political opportunism. Saw the high case numbers over east and thought it would be popular to say no to that.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

This was a good article in the ABC, as opposed to the obviously politically-motivated beat-ups from NewsCorp and the West Australian in recent days.

Australia's 'hermit kingdom' seems finally set to fall to Omicron

Two years ago, Western Australia slammed its doors shut and went in a different direction to the rest of the nation. But the sun may be setting on its days behind a hard border, despite its delayed reopening.

www.abc.net.au

tl;dr: Life has been much more normal in WA than in other states, obviously fewer deaths and fewer lockdowns, hospitality industry has actually thrived as opposed to places like Vic and NSW, business investment has been very strong relative to other states, tourism and business interests feel that it will be damaging long-term to WA if the state stays closed for much longer after the other states have reopened.

Previously in this thread I have read sentiments like most of the people dying are older and probably didn't have much longer to live, but loads of otherwise healthy people (especially aged 50+) have died from Covid. My parents live in the US and have basically not been out of the house without a mask in the past two years. They are aged mid 70s, my dad previously had prostate cancer and a minor heart attack like 20 years ago; my mum is in good health for her age. I'd say that they're pretty average for their age in terms of overall fitness and cardio health. But because of their age they've had to be quite careful, especially before getting two jabs (they were both fully vaccinated by May 2021 and since have gotten booster shots). My mum had Covid last month and it was just like a cold for her; my dad didn't experience any symptoms but may have had it.

Anyway, my point is that people their age are vulnerable to Covid, especially before the vaccines were available (which for them was about a year; for most in Australia it was even longer). And yeah I guess you could say "they're old" or my dad at least had some pre-existing health issues, but they're still only in their mid 70s and pretty healthy, and have been traveling a lot the past few years since my dad retired. They could reasonably expect to live another 10+ years, and I don't think people like this should just be hand-waved away. They have a lot more they want to do and see. But for them, the past couple of years have been pretty ordinary. Lots of time in the apartment, haven't been able to do really any of the travel they had planned on, haven't been able to go out to eat or to museums or concerts very much, haven't seen my brother as much as they normally would. Whereas Boomers in WA haven't had to live with that same fear of the virus, and while some of their planned interstate or overseas travel has been put off, God knows there have been enough of them out and about within our state.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

Not sure if he still lives in Perth, but Dr Khorshid lived here in 2012 at least, because that's when he reconstructed my left knee.

You are correct, he is based in Perth. I was under the impression that he is in Melbourne.

I will say that I have learned from my wife that people who are "head of _______ " at a major hospital or "head of (some medical body)" are not necessarily the most senior people or the best people in that department, but rather the people who are willing to put up with administrative BS. That is not to say anything negative about Dr Khorshid specifically. It just means that a lot of people who are incredible doctors have zero interest in the political and administrative demands of being head of a union or a department and prefer to spend their time treating patients, doing research, and/or helping to train registrars.

 

[Moose1414]

Few questions

What early treatment was refused?

Do you understand what "monopoly" refers to?

How was this orchestrated across a myriad of different countries with differing motivations?

No thanks

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

I'd honestly like to know what spooked McGowan over the 'opening' date. What was different than a week or a month prior. Because I think that is what most folks who are upset are questioning: what was the difference?

Ignoring that Feb 5 was a pretty terrible date to have chosen, being the first week of school returning. You've got a date which causes a lot of people's transportation to change, and within the same week you want to weaken the state's defence against transmission.

I'm beginning to think that's what was being pointed out to the premier, and he finally realised that may have been a bad idea.

Community transmission occurring in WA basically for the first time since about April 2020.

 

[Moose1414]

Few questions

What early treatment was refused?

Do you understand what "monopoly" refers to?

How was this orchestrated across a myriad of different countries with differing motivations?

Open question to the thread:

If Omicron is doing to overwhelm the hospital system when it peaks here, how many courses of monoclonal antibodies has McGowan stockpiled to keep people who had a bad time of it from ending up in the ICU?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

I'll ask him at our weekly poker night.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Open question to the thread:

If Omicron is doing to overwhelm the hospital system when it peaks here, how many courses of monoclonal antibodies has McGowan stockpiled to keep people who had a bad time of it from ending up in the ICU?

No thanks.

 

[RookiePick]

Petition about opening the borders.

Can you spare a minute to help Jeremy Mortimer?

WA Doctors supporting the opening of borders on February 5th 2022

chng.it

This was started by Dr Luke Torre who is the Head of ICU at Sir Charles Gairdner.

Must have boat repayments to make and needs the overtime.

 

[ziad]

Not sure if he still lives in Perth, but Dr Khorshid lived here in 2012 at least, because that's when he reconstructed my left knee.

and it part thats the problem, a knee Dr knows as much about COVID as does a GP - perhaps less. Just a politician in the AMA/union

 

[bzparkes]

Must have boat repayments to make and needs the overtime.

Probably had a ski trip booked more like.

 

[Biggie]

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

I love the attitude "I did my part, I went and got vaccinated" as if you made some huge sacrifice by taking an hour out of your boring life to get free medicine that might help save your life.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

The Eagles won the 2021 Grand Final, and before this turns into a farce of you people twisting the match reports and box scores and direct quotes from the people involved, let’s just agree that they did.

If I ever agree that the Eagles didn’t win the 2021 Grand Final, it’s only because I’m trying to avoid getting cancelled but deep down I, and everyone else, knows my statement was correct.

 

[wadistance]

Do you think you these posts are clever or make any sense? Because I can assure you they aren’t, and they don’t.

The state government has said that they aren’t going to implement further lockdowns, and it’s very unlikely that lockdowns would be work regardless, given the transmissibility of Omicron. The intention of the closed borders is to not get a huge spike in cases at a time when the state is already experiencing its first significant community transmission since early 2020.

Pretty average read of you tbh. You think I’m trying to sound clever? I haven’t seen my family in over two *in years. My youngest doesn’t know her granddad. And whilst my best mate from Victoria can visit me in Germany and return without any checks whatsoever, my old man is still locked away in WA.

I didn’t think it would come to this, but McGowan stans have actually been worse than Dan and Gladys stans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moose1414]

No thanks.

Cute. Nothing to say on being wrong about Sarah Gilbert recommending boosters for Omicron either I notice.

But exactly, why would you want to talk about the the most successful [and fully approved] treatment of covid, thats saved thousands of lives overseas, and the fact Australia opts for the take a panadol and go lie down approach.

We've had 2 years to prepare. We have a budget surplus and the one of the strongest economy's going around. You can get monoclonal antibodies almost everywhere, they are widely available in India even. Treating people who develop serious illness from covid is a known and effective method for stopping them dying from not being treated. I'm guessing that doing so can probably take significant pressure off our impoverished health system by treating the worse effected by Omicron. Crickets on this issue.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Cute. Nothing to say on being wrong about Sarah Gilbert recommending boosters for Omicron either I notice.

But exactly, why would you want to talk about the the most successful [and fully approved] treatment of covid, thats saved thousands of lives overseas, and the fact Australia opts for the take a panadol and go lie down approach.

We've had 2 years to prepare. We have a budget surplus and the one of the strongest economy's going around. You can get monoclonal antibodies almost everywhere, they are widely available in India even. Treating people who develop serious illness from covid is a known and effective method for stopping them dying from not being treated. I'm guessing that doing so can probably take significant pressure off our impoverished health system by treating the worse effected by Omicron. Crickets on this issue.

I gave you her direct quotes. You then preceded to explain why her direct quotes didn’t mean what they said, having previously accused “Reuters fact checkers” of twisting her words to mean what they said. Without a trace of irony, as well.

I’ve got no interest in playing this game with you where everything means what you assert it means regardless of what it actually says, and anyone who says different is trying to twist things and gaslight you.

Best of luck.

 

[Moose1414]

The Eagles won the 2021 Grand Final, and before this turns into a farce of you people twisting the match reports and box scores and direct quotes from the people involved, let’s just agree that they did.

If I ever agree that the Eagles didn’t win the 2021 Grand Final, it’s only because I’m trying to avoid getting cancelled but deep down I, and everyone else, knows my statement was correct.

Its nothing personal, believe me mate I read so many comments as a mod I don't even know who you are. Lol.

How'zit Badge, bit of a strange post from you from you. Its creative and eccentric enough I'm actually little worried you might be spiralling out of control. Maybe take the rest of the day off

 

[Moose1414]

I gave you her direct quotes. You then preceded to explain why her direct quotes didn’t mean what they said, having previously accused “Reuters fact checkers” of twisting her words to mean what they said. Without a trace of irony, as well.

I’ve got no interest in playing this game with you where everything means what you assert it means regardless of what it actually says, and anyone who says different is trying to twist things and gaslight you.

Best of luck.

Interesting. I proceeded to explain that no-where in her quotes was she talking about booster efficacy against omicron or her recommending boosting to combat omicron because the quotes were from before anything was known about omicron. Your gaslighting yourself but whatever, happy for you to not talk to me if it gets a little difficult to defend your position.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Interesting. I proceeded to explain that no-where in her quotes was she talking about booster efficacy against omicron or her recommending boosting to combat omicron because the quotes were from before anything was known about omicron. Your gaslighting yourself but whatever, happy for you to not talk to me if it gets a little difficult to defend your position.

Someone else asked you to expand on a statement of yours by asking three direct questions and your response was “no thanks”, but sure by all means accuse others of struggling to defend their position.