Mega Thread COVID & AFL

[Van_Dyke]

Team,
as the season is approaching and there’s still much to discuss with regards to covid, please use this thread to talk about it and the potential impacts of it on the AFL season and the league more broadly. Please note however that if you want to talk about the politics of covid, the politics thread is the place for this and political posts in this thread will be deleted, please keep this thread to how it may impact the competition

 

[Taylor]

It's a society. We make compromises so society functions as best as it can. We wear clothes, seatbelts, avoid drink driving etc etc.

Mask wearing ain't no big deal. I wear a mask all day at work. No biggie.

People who get overly focused on them will have issue. Generally those who come from a culture of mask wearing have no issue with it, because they just get on with it and don't fuss.

I haven't advocated any mandates, but medical rep bodies have.

And we haven't gotten close to the expected hospital admissions they forecast when they removed restrictions.

As an aside, look at the hospital data on flu admissions. The flu is causing problems, covid isn't. People are going to hospital with covid to get their appendix out etc, people are going into hospital with the flu.

 

[Taylor]

You know that average death age of 80 is bull. It’s much lower.
18-29 age group are 22 time more likely to die if unvaccinated.
All age groups have stats like that.

It’s the long term health problems Covid can cause you should be worried about.

I’ve just had my fourth jab and I still wear masks. I like protecting the people I love. I also want to protect people I don’t know.
Person choice, it should be about personal responsibility.

You might be right. The median age of death is 83.

 

[sdfc]

You know that average death age of 80 is bull. It’s much lower.
18-29 age group are 22 time more likely to die if unvaccinated.
All age groups have stats like that.

It’s the long term health problems Covid can cause you should be worried about.

I’ve just had my fourth jab and I still wear masks. I like protecting the people I love. I also want to protect people I don’t know.
Person choice, it should be about personal responsibility.

Good for you.

The median age of death in Australia due to COVID is 84 years.

The death rate among healthy young people is close to zero. The 22 times stat is misleading.

The vaccines don't stop the spread.

 

[King Huskii]

And we haven't gotten close to the expected hospital admissions they forecast when they removed restrictions.

As an aside, look at the hospital data on flu admissions. The flu is causing problems, covid isn't. People are going to hospital with covid to get their appendix out etc, people are going into hospital with the flu.

Thats because everyone is vaxed. In an unvaxed world our hospitals would have been insufficient to support everyone in need.

 

[estibador]

It’s the long term health problems Covid can cause you should be worried about.

This is the unknown I'm a bit wary about.

Spanish flu survivors were 2-3 times more likely to develop Parkinson's than the general public in the 20 years after the pandemic. It will be interesting to see if covid results in anything like that.

 

[Cesoir]

So, who won the internet today?

 

[Fyfe! The Musical]

I dare say you don't want to be held accountable for your bodgey logic.

Again you choose to invent general non-specifics to strawman an argument together.

We live in a society. Containing a pandemic with a bit of mask wearing ain't a big deal to reduce the death toll and not overload hospitals, if that's what it takes.

We wear masks more to protect others more than ourselves.

It's also be interesting to see how firmly you'd hold to the "live the lives they want" mantra if your neighbours continuously had loud parties to 3am mid-week.

Except masks don't do that. The delta outbreak last year continued to get out of control during a time of stay at home orders and mask mandates. Everything was thrown at containing the virus and the measures didn't work.

 

[Fyfe! The Musical]

This is the unknown I'm a bit wary about.

Spanish flu survivors were 2-3 times more likely to develop Parkinson's than the general public in the 20 years after the pandemic. It will be interesting to see if covid results in anything like that.

I find this claim somewhat dodgy given the era it happened (a lot of people who contracted Spanish flu fought on the Western front and may have been suffering shell shock) and the impossibility of isolating confounders.

 

[mattis117]

Except masks don't do that. The delta outbreak last year continued to get out of control during a time of stay at home orders and mask mandates. Everything was thrown at containing the virus and the measures didn't work.

This is a disingenuous argument. By that I mean you're making a point and ignoring the flaws you already know exist in what you're saying.
I hate masks and I'm glad we're going down the route of recommending them instead of mandating them.
However, you cannot claim they are ineffectual. That is simply wrong. They are a control measure that provides some immeasurable reduction in transmissibilty. Even if it were 1%, that remains greater than 0, i.e. you cannot claim the control measure didn't work because you cannot possibly know this as fact.

 

[Fyfe! The Musical]

This is a disingenuous argument. By that I mean you're making a point and ignoring the flaws you already know exist in what you're saying.
I hate masks and I'm glad we're going down the route of recommending them instead of mandating them.
However, you cannot claim they are ineffectual. That is simply wrong. They are a control measure that provides some immeasurable reduction in transmissibilty. Even if it were 1%, that remains greater than 0, i.e. you cannot claim the control measure didn't work because you cannot possibly know this as fact.

If it's anything less than what is necessary to bring the transmission rate below 1 it is useless for saving lives as all it does is push out the timing for when you contract it.

 

[Fyfe! The Musical]

Anyway I caught it three months ago and it was no big deal, intense fever for 24 hours and fine afterwards, no worse than stuff my kids have brought home from day care and school. If you're under 60 and afraid of this thing I pity you.

 

[mattis117]

If it's anything less than what is necessary to bring the transmission rate below 1 it is useless for saving lives as all it does is push out the timing for when you contract it.

You're free to believe that, doesn't mean your opinion means anything.

Just the ranting of an ignoramus.

Simply, if infection is prevented prior to an effective treatment or other protection measure is developed, then the timing of infection does matter.

 

[Fyfe! The Musical]

You're free to believe that, doesn't mean your opinion means anything.

Just the ranting of an ignoramus.

Simply, if infection is prevented prior to an effective treatment or other protection measure is developed, then the timing of infection does matter.

There are effective treatments: vaccines.

But if you think NPIs are necessary until treatments are developed what would you be demanding if vaccines hadn’t yet been developed? Permanent lockdown?

 

[Fred Ziffel]

If the effect of wearing a mask is twofold, stops the wearer from spreading virus and contracting it, then if a person chooses to wear one it is their sole prerogative. Whether the person along side them is wearing one is of no or little consequence.

 

[mayne iac]

Anyway I caught it three months ago and it was no big deal, intense fever for 24 hours and fine afterwards, no worse than stuff my kids have brought home from day care and school. If you're under 60 and afraid of this thing I pity you.

I wonder why

 

[wild side]

Without the vaccines there wouldn't be 50,000 people going to today's game!
irrefutable evidence imo

 

[Cesoir]

Anyway I caught it three months ago and it was no big deal, intense fever for 24 hours and fine afterwards, no worse than stuff my kids have brought home from day care and school. If you're under 60 and afraid of this thing I pity you.

Yeah, I had an uncle that smoke all his life and lived to 98, so all the people afraid of catching cancer from smoking are idiots too. I hate this narrative of those who have had COVID and gotten off relatively lightly saying it's no worse than a cold. OK, it was for you, but not for the 6,000,000 people who have died. I got a secondary chest infection with it and am still pretty crook three weeks later - it is not just your experience that matters.

 

[Righteo]

Or we could compare apples with apples and leave the emotionally manipulative framing to the journos and pols...

 

[King Huskii]

Or we could compare apples with apples and leave the emotionally manipulative framing to the journos and pols...

People could also post logical

Anti vax People base their argument on mis trust and fear not science that is backed by data.

Funny how small pox isn't a concern anymore.

 

[hoss]

Anyway I caught it three months ago and it was no big deal, intense fever for 24 hours and fine afterwards, no worse than stuff my kids have brought home from day care and school. If you're under 60 and afraid of this thing I pity you.

So glad you got a mild case. I'm under 60 and currently have Covid. Sick for over a week. Exhausted walking 20m from bedroom to kitchen. Bastard has got to my lungs so coughing up huge amounts of phlegm mixed with blood off my raw throat which feels like it's being knifed every cough or swallow. Know it would have been much worse if I hadn't had 4 vaccine shots already.

 

[Fyfe! The Musical]

So glad you got a mild case. I'm under 60 and currently have Covid. Sick for over a week. Exhausted walking 20m from bedroom to kitchen. Bastard has got to my lungs so coughing up huge amounts of phlegm mixed with blood off my raw throat which feels like it's being knifed every cough or swallow. Know it would have been much worse if I hadn't had 4 vaccine shots already.

Sounds terrible but what more would you have people do. There is no evidence mask mandates work and fairly inconclusive evidence as to whether masks work at all. I see people demand N95 mask mandates but unless the police are checking each mask, ensuring that each is correctly fitted and not reused then it is a useless law that cannot be enforced. Given I most likely either caught it off my kids or when I went out to dinner with my wife for her birthday, you’d have to mask toddlers and enforce rigid masking rules in between bites of food. This is also completely unenforceable, and making early childhood miserable.

I don’t believe the people who demand soft NPIs like mask mandates will be happy after they are implemented. It’s a ratchet. When the mandates fail they will be followed by demands for social distancing, density limits and stay at home orders.

When I caught it I didn’t blame other people or the government for getting it. I accepted it as a fact of life. Sometimes people get a bad deal. My Dad died during lockdown, he didn’t get the funeral he deserved. My kids got taken out of school, footy, swimming lessons and music lessons for close to a year cumulatively. What more must people sacrifice to prevent what is inevitable?