Cox Extends Himself

[toommy]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Swans line up is ordinary but I must admit most premiers of the last 15 or so years seem to have had a pretty good ruck division and ours did cost us in out losing gf sides, all we could have had polly farmer in 03 and it would not have made a difference.

Obviously we are pretty light on this year. My bet is the club had its eye on a couple of rucks who they hoped would have slipped to pick 28 but it did not turn out that way. It was that or give up a player like brown for renouf. Spoke to a bloke who plays for southport on the weekend and he reckons renouf will be a star. Said he was leaps and bounds better than tippett in terms of talent. Other than him I suspect the club figured that the rest of the rucks in the draft were simply no up to it and they would rather try there luck next year either by trading or in the draft.

I know nothing about the guy but at 197 cm with the potential to get to 200 being so young is it totally out of the question that reid could be a ruckman? has he palyed there before? and if so does he have a clue what he is doing? Any knowledgable thoughts on this would be appreciated.

we are not light on for rucks if fraser and richards remain injury free or fraser and bryan, well fraser anyway we should be adequate in that postion.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Re: Screwballs the mad screwy

Everitt = old
Doyle = Guy Richards
Jolly = solid backup, has his good and bad days as #1 ruckman
Currie = done nothing

Goodes can still pinch hit as could Hall and Roberts-Thompson if needed.

Thats four specialist rucks including a youngster (of which we have none) and two kpp's who can ruck, as well as a dual Brownlow medallist who was formerly their number one ruck.

Seven.

We have three plus T Cloke. Four at a stretch.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Re: Cox On The Rise

we are not light on for rucks if fraser and richards remain injury free or fraser and bryan, well fraser anyway we should be adequate in that postion.

Thanks for that, Mr obvious. If nobody gets injured we dont need any backups.

 

[toommy]

Re: Screwballs the mad screwy

Goodes can still pinch hit as could Hall and Roberts-Thompson if needed.

Thats four specialist rucks including a youngster (of which we have none) and two kpp's who can ruck.

Six.

We have three plus T Cloke. Four at a stretch.

hall can pinch hit but rocca can't

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Re: Screwballs the mad screwy

hall can pinch hit but rocca can't

Correct. Not any more - not with his bung ankle.

 

[jimmy35]

Re: Screwballs the mad screwy

Everitt = old
Doyle = Guy Richards
Jolly = solid backup, has his good and bad days as #1 ruckman
Currie = done nothing

No superstars there but plenty of willing big bodies . Swans rucks edge ours out but we are only one good , big , healthy body away .

 

[prO]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Whether I could do better or not isn’t the issue. This isn’t a board election it is an internet forum debate about decisions. If we weren’t hear caring and there weren’t so many of us Collingwood would have folded under the weight of it’s own failings years ago. You and I are equal in that regard we just disagree on performance issues.

You can offer your criticism all you like, however your opinion about what needs to be rectified at the Collingwood Football Club will never be respected unless you offer something thats constructive. Given that you've admitted you have no idea..... - who to draft etc pretty much sums up the majority of your posts - futile

Therefore before you have a sook ( which is what vinnie eluded to ), how about tells us who the magpies should have drafted, who the magpies should have delisted, how the magpies should have played - tells us what is the recipe to winning a flag. After all it is just an internet forum - at least this way you will have some sort of credibility.

 

[hoogs]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Wasn't a huge fan of his at South Freo. Well known at the club for lacking ticker. Hope he makes it to training at Pieville, cause he missed a bucket full down Freo Oval. Good luck with him and hope he's turned it around.

 

[toommy]

Re: Cox On The Rise

You can offer your criticism all you like, however your opinion about what needs to be rectified at the Collingwood Football Club will never be respected unless you offer something thats constructive. Given that you've admitted you have no idea..... - who to draft etc pretty much sums up the majority of your posts - futile

Therefore before you have a sook ( which is what vinnie eluded to ), how about tells us who the magpies should have drafted, who the magpies should have delisted, how the magpies should have played - tells us what is the recipe to winning a flag. After all it is just an internet forum - at least this way you will have some sort of credibility.

you should listern to this bloke timmy

 

[FIGJAM]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Wasn't a huge fan of his at South Freo. Well known at the club for lacking ticker. Hope he makes it to training at Pieville, cause he missed a bucket full down Freo Oval. Good luck with him and hope he's turned it around.

Read the original article. He is as fit as a fiddle. Has missed a grand total of zero training sessions.

He was a very late starter to football. Wiz's profile is a good one and refers to the slack he needed to be cut.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4345674&postcount=2

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Re: Cox On The Rise

you should listern to this bloke timmy

I was being constructive. I suggested Cox or Toovey should spend another year on the rookie list, and Cloke should have been retained as an additional ruck option. I didnt fly into tangents about mistakes in the past, that was somebody else.

I assume comprehension is not your best topic at school.

 

[ant22]

Re: Cox On The Rise

we are not light on for rucks if fraser and richards remain injury free or fraser and bryan, well fraser anyway we should be adequate in that postion.

I actually think Richards can ruck but he has not proven he can string more than a few games together without getting injured.

To suggest we are not light on is being overly optimistic IMO

But at the same time I am not suggesting we should have hung on to c cloke. I think cameron is by far the worst of the cloke brothers. Some suggest on here he may have been delisted because of his name. I suggest that he was drafted because of his name. Just not up to afl standard and despite the fact that we are light on I think we made the right move in delsting him.

As for the actual topic I have not seen enough of cox to form an opinion. I saw a couple of early games where he looked way out of his depth but I did not see him in the later stages of the season.

 

[toommy]

Re: Cox On The Rise

I actually think Richards can ruck but he has not proven he can string more than a few games together without getting injured.

To suggest we are not light on is being overly optimistic IMO

But at the same time I am not suggesting we should have hung on to c cloke. I think cameron is by far the worst of the cloke brothers. Some suggest on here he may have been delisted because of his name. I suggest that he was drafted because of his name. Just not up to afl standard and despite the fact that we are light on I think we made the right move in delsting him.

As for the actual topic I have not seen enough of cox to form an opinion. I saw a couple of early games where he looked way out of his depth but I did not see him in the later stages of the season.

but cox has not taken clokes spot bryan has

 

[ant22]

Re: Cox On The Rise

but cox has not taken clokes spot bryan has

Actually Cloke was delisted/moved on along with another 8 or so players. Cox was senior list/drafted along with another 8 or so players. I am not sure anyone actually replaces anyone specifically. Not that any of this is relevant.

We are light on in rucks Imo

Cloke was a dud an we needed to delist him regardless of how light on we are.

Bryan was obviouslty drafted because we are light on after delisting fanning and cloke although he is a back up at best.

I dont have an opinion on cox because i have not seen enough of him. I commented on cox because it is the topic of this thread and I thought I might as well put my 2 cents in. It is in no way related to my opinion on the rucks

 

[MarkT]

Re: Cox On The Rise

You can offer your criticism all you like, however your opinion about what needs to be rectified at the Collingwood Football Club will never be respected unless you offer something thats constructive.

Firstly I’m not after respect on a faceless internet site from people I’ll probably never meet. It’s a debate and I’m chucking in my 2 bobs worth. Secondly, mistakes don’t disappear for lack of the offer of an alternative from me. Thirdly, my suggestions and alternative abound, constructive and otherwise, good or bad.

Given that you've admitted you have no idea..... - who to draft etc pretty much sums up the majority of your posts - futile

Why?

Therefore before you have a sook ( which is what vinnie eluded to ), how about tells us who the magpies should have drafted, who the magpies should have delisted, how the magpies should have played - tells us what is the recipe to winning a flag. After all it is just an internet forum - at least this way you will have some sort of credibility.

Been done at the time and in numerous discussions over the years. In the context of this particular thread, some of the points have raised are:
MM undervalues the ruck and consequently pays too much attention to non ruck skills.
Premiership teams generally have at least 1 quality ruckman.
We have no quality ruckman.
Cox could have been retained as a rookie and seems still to need rookie type development.
We should have cut deeper in previous years. For further details feel free to search the relevant threads.
Is this clear? You don’t have to agree. In fact you can agree with everything the club ever does and feel free to say so.

 

[MarkT]

Re: Cox On The Rise

… the slack he needed to be cut.

Does that not say rookie?

 

[toommy]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Firstly I’m not after respect on a faceless internet site from people I’ll probably never meet. It’s a debate and I’m chucking in my 2 bobs worth. Secondly, mistakes don’t disappear for lack of the offer of an alternative from me. Thirdly, my suggestions and alternative abound, constructive and otherwise, good or bad.Why? Been done at the time and in numerous discussions over the years. In the context of this particular thread, some of the points have raised are:
MM undervalues the ruck and consequently pays too much attention to non ruck skills.
Premiership teams generally have at least 1 quality ruckman.
We have no quality ruckman.
Cox could have been retained as a rookie and seems still to need rookie type development.
We should have cut deeper in previous years. For further details feel free to search the relevant threads.
Is this clear? You don’t have to agree. In fact you can agree with everything the club ever does and feel free to say so.

where does fraser rate in the leagues ruckmen and buy ruckman i don't just mean tapouts but overall play and could you list in your opinion the ruckmen in the league better just for interest sake

 

[MarkT]

Re: Cox On The Rise

where does fraser rate in the leagues ruckmen and buy ruckman i don't just mean tapouts but overall play and could you list in your opinion the ruckmen in the league better just for interest sake

Nevertheless overall he’d rate well above half way but what he adds to our on ball division doesn’t counter sides with top line midfields. We get beaten by more effective ruckmen regularly. As a tap ruckmen IMO Josh rates near the bottom – stats notwithstanding. I like Fraser as a footballer but not as a first ruck. I’d happily have him as the only alternative ruckman in the 22 though to play forward, run around the ground and provide relief ruckwork for a quality tap ruckman.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Nevertheless overall he’d rate well above half way but what he adds to our on ball division doesn’t counter sides with top line midfields. We get beaten by more effective ruckmen regularly. As a tap ruckmen IMO Josh rates near the bottom – stats notwithstanding. I like Fraser as a footballer but not as a first ruck. I’d happily have him as the only alternative ruckman in the 22 though to play forward, run around the ground and provide relief ruckwork for a quality tap ruckman.

Fraser is very similar to Goodes in style and athleticism. In fact I'd argue he has superior ball skills to Goodes, especially goalkicking. The Swans took Goodes out of the ruck and played him as a tall midfielder. They replaced him with a harder body at the centre bounces, and he now has two Brownlow medals and a premiership medallion.

No more needs to be said.

 

[FIGJAM]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Does that not say rookie?

Does what say rookie?

Wiz's profile does, yeah. Was written in 2004. Since then Cox has played WAFL, VFL and had a propper pre-season and general season with us, improving game by game with the clincher being a very good performance in defence in a high pressure preliminary final. He's not as green as when the profile was written.

Cox is Egan's age, and allowing for an Arizona trip, plus another hard pre-season, then I have no issues in punting that he can get to another level required to make him capable of AFL games this year.

How Cox & Cloke are related discussion topics is beyond me. Cameron Cloke requires a new shoulder, an extra dash of ability and and attitude re-adjustment to make it at AFL level. He was never going to get that last bit with us, and I am doubtful on the other two issues.

 

[Parallel Andy]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Ok, firstly Cox.
If anyone had seen the quality of this guy towards the end of last season when playing for Williamstown, they would not even question his position on the main list.
The guy was a class above most other players in his last few games.
His ball skills and footy knowledge are fantastic.

Secondly, the ruck issue.
Sure I would have loved if we had picked up another ruckman, but look at the options we have so far.
We have Fraser and Richards, both proven ruckman.
Fraser is better around the ground, Richards is probably the better ruckman.
We have Bryan as a back up now.
We also have Rocca and even T.Cloke and Reid are capable of rucking.

People don't seem to understand.
You do not want 3 or 4 of your top 22 players to be ruckman.
Look at our current big man situation.
We don't want an over abundance of big men who are in our best 22 players.

For example let's look at our forward line and rucking options and see how many of the big guys get left out. These are not necessarily where they will all play, but bear with me.

Ruck: Fraser
Half-forwards: Didak T.Cloke Davis
Forwards: Buckley Rocca, Rusling
Bench: Richards

That leaves Bryan, Reid and Brown out of the team.

I think that is a pretty good mix.
Bryan is a ruckman and Reid has played a lot of ruck too.
As it is T.Cloke and Rocca in the forward line is pretty top-heavy.
Let's assume (and hope the hell not!) that Fraser, Richards and Rocca all get injured.
They can be covered:

Ruck: Bryan
Half-forwards: Didak, T.Cloke, Davis
Forwards: Thomas, Buckley, Rusling
Bench: Reid

And OK maybe Reid is not quite at the standard to play yet.
Josh Fraser was thrown in pretty early, he did very well.
Cloke, Thomas and Pendlebury were thrown in pretty early and they did well also.

 

[ant22]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Nevertheless overall he’d rate well above half way but what he adds to our on ball division doesn’t counter sides with top line midfields. We get beaten by more effective ruckmen regularly. As a tap ruckmen IMO Josh rates near the bottom – stats notwithstanding. I like Fraser as a footballer but not as a first ruck. I’d happily have him as the only alternative ruckman in the 22 though to play forward, run around the ground and provide relief ruckwork for a quality tap ruckman.

I would agree with most of that(suprised) as I have never really thought josh is a very good player when it comes to hit outs. Although I reckon he improved his hits by atleast 50% in 06. If he can improve his hitouts again this year I think he can take his game to a new level.

 

[hoogs]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Read the original article. He is as fit as a fiddle. Has missed a grand total of zero training sessions.

He was a very late starter to football. Wiz's profile is a good one and refers to the slack he needed to be cut.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4345674&postcount=2

Well, that's very nice, now go back and read my post.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Re: Cox On The Rise

We don't want an over abundance of big men who are in our best 22 players..

There's no risk of that happening. We have an under abundance!!!!

Richards has been at the club for years and is still not guaranteed to be in our top 22 for numerous reasons, mainly fitness.
Bryan couldnt get a game for Carlton last year.
Reid is a first year player and was certainly not drafted to be a ruckman.
Rocca has dodgy ankles and probably cant ruck.
T Cloke is quality but has not yet delivered and needs a full season in the forward line, not crashing and bashing against Cox and Sandilands.
Fraser is genuine quality but whether his best position is in the ruck is highly debatable.

 

[FIGJAM]

Re: Cox On The Rise

Well, that's very nice, now go back and read my post.

I read it before I posted sunshine.