Cox v Gawn

[Happy Mastenator]

Have had more than enough discussion about Max v Nic Nat.

Maxy just received his 5th AA, Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

42

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

has 6.

Similar players in that they get around the ground, take big marks and go alright in the ruck as well (obviously peak Cox here, not his final years where he was a free kick hunter). A fair bit easier to directly compare rather than the Max v Nic Nat who are completely different types of players.

Who you taking?

 

[LBJ6]

Voted Gawn because I'm biased, however they are the two best ruckmen I've seen in my life.

 

[Blackas87]

Reckon Max has a bigger impact.

Cox got around the ground getting more possessions and more marks getting involved a lot, but Max gets into positions where he impacts with more contested marks and possession, more clearances and tackles.

Cox had 71 Brownlow votes from 290 games, Not including the current season but Max is already on 73 votes from 134 games suggesting the bigger impact he has.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Reckon Max has a bigger impact.

Cox got around the ground getting more possessions and more marks getting involved a lot, but Max gets into positions where he impacts with more contested marks and possession, more clearances and tackles.

Cox had 71 Brownlow votes from 290 games, Not including the current season but Max is already on 73 votes from 134 games suggesting the bigger impact he has.

Fair bit different between the teams they've played in though, if Gawn was playing with Judd Kerr Cousins reckon his brownlow votes might be a bit lower too.

Voted Cox, his work around the ground at peak was better imo.

 

[Blackas87]

Fair bit different between the teams they've played in though, if Gawn was playing with Judd Kerr Cousins reckon his brownlow votes might be a bit lower too.

Voted Cox, his work around the ground at peak was better imo.

Judd and Cousins were gone from West Coast after 2007 and Kerr never polled more than 8 votes in a season after that with a total of 28 across his last 6 seasons.

Thats the halfway point of Cox’s career, exactly half of his games played after that with 145, 3 all Australians after that in 2008,11 and 12 for 43 Brownlow votes.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Judd and Cousins were gone from West Coast after 2007 and Kerr never polled more than 8 votes in a season after that with a total of 28 across his last 6 seasons.

Thats the halfway point of Cox’s career, exactly half of his games played after that with 145, 3 all Australians after that in 2008,11 and 12 for 43 Brownlow votes.

breaking news. Key position player doesn’t get many Brownlow votes…

 

[Blackas87]

breaking news. Key position player doesn’t get many Brownlow votes…

Yeah we are comparing Cox and Gawn who play the same positions.

As I stated earlier Max has more votes from less than half the games (not including the current season) than Cox.

Cox worked around taking a lot of uncontested marks and possessions, Max works to areas impacting with contested marks, contested possessions.

I reckon Gawn impacts the game more and the Brownlow voting shows that.

 

[Tulip]

Coxy for me. Gawn still has a few years left so we'll see, but if I had to choose now it would be Cox.

 

[Shooter#17]

Gawn by a long, long way.

 

[schmuttt]

Cox still at this stage.

 

[hotchilli]

Cox for me right now although a big finals campaign from Gawn would be enough to convince me on Gawn.

 

[Engimal v3]

Big fat Cox for me

 

[Quinz]

Cox better at getting around the ground as a link player, a much better field kick and better up forward.

Gawn a better tap ruckman, better at ground level and a better contested mark. Haven't seen much of Max in finals yet, 2018 he was disappointing but good tonight; Cox was elite in big games. Both ultra consistent.

Reckon Max needs a few more years at peak level to get to Cox category.

 

[00Stinger]

As much as I want to say Max it's Cox and unless Gawn can put another 2-3 top line seasons minimum in its hard for him to catch up

Cox is still the best ruckman over a prolonged period I have seen. Absolute star and he did it for 10 odd years at peak level

I reckon Max's 2018 was the best individual season between the two though





Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[reggie]

Yeah we are comparing Cox and Gawn who play the same positions.

As I stated earlier Max has more votes from less than half the games (not including the current season) than Cox.

Cox worked around taking a lot of uncontested marks and possessions, Max works to areas impacting with contested marks, contested possessions.

I reckon Gawn impacts the game more and the Brownlow voting shows that.

If it is based on Brownlow votes then Nat Fyfe is the greatest player of all time and Graham Moss is the best ruckman ever and Matt Priddis has a better career than Carey, Matthews, Hird, Farmer, Williams, Franklin, Black, R Harvey, Voss, Hudson, etc.

Recency bias is the only way Gawn is better than Cox

 

[Blackas87]

If it is based on Brownlow votes then Nat Fyfe is the greatest player of all time and Graham Moss is the best ruckman ever and Matt Priddis has a better career than Carey, Matthews, Hird, Farmer, Williams, Franklin, Black, R Harvey, Voss, Hudson, etc.

Recency bias is the only way Gawn is better than Cox

No what I said was.

Reckon Max has a bigger impact.

Cox got around the ground getting more possessions and more marks getting involved a lot, but Max gets into positions where he impacts with more contested marks and possession, more clearances and tackles.

Cox had 71 Brownlow votes from 290 games, Not including the current season but Max is already on 73 votes from 134 games suggesting the bigger impact he has.

Max with more contested marks, more contested possessions, more Clearances more tackles. More impact.

The umpires see that impact hence the more Brownlow votes.

Other than not acknowledging current stars surpassing past stars bias why is Cox ahead of Gawn.

 

[reggie]

No what I said was.
Max with more contested marks, more contested possessions, more Clearances more tackles. More impact.

The umpires see that impact hence the more Brownlow votes.

Other than not acknowledging current stars surpassing past stars bias why is Cox ahead of Gawn.

AFL is far more contested now than it was during most of Cox's career, far more contested possessions, marks and tackles, so naturally Gawn is likely to have better stats than Cox in those categories. Todd Goldstein has better averages in contested possessions and tackles and pretty much matches Cox for contested marks (also has more Brownlow votes per game) so by the measurements you're using Goldstein has had more impact than Cox as well. It's like saying that Sav Rocca had a better career than Josh Kennedy because he kicked more goals per game, ignoring the fact that the game was far more high scoring during Rocca's career.

The Brownlow vote comparison doesn't stack up, umpires these days tend not to spread the votes across many players. The top ten current players for votes per game fit in the top 27 players all time. Undisputed legends like Matthews, Carey, Ablett Snr don't even make the top 50. 5 of the last 6 winners have had more than 30 votes which had only happened twice before in the history of the medal. Either we're living in a peak time of champions in the game's history or the umpires focus on less players than they did in the past.

There hasn't been a ruckman who is a better field kick (left and right foot) in the time I've been watching than Cox, he was basically an extra mid once the ball hit the ground. Gawn doesn't compare in that area. Cox had far more impact up forward than Gawn, 3 seasons with 20+ goals which is outstanding for a ruckman. I understand different rucks play different roles within teams but personally I'd rather a ruckman who has an impact on the scoreboard than one that drops behind the footy. If the two of them were lined up in the school yard I'd be taking Cox every lunch time.

For whatever it's worth, the votes in the poll suggest the large majority believe Cox is better too.

 

[KissKiss]

I still have Cox slightly ahead but Gawn is closing the gap. And to be honest (while its not quite an individual thing for their position) if he captains his club to a premiership that might be what tips him over the edge

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Interestingly Gawns last three seasons have been the only years he’s averaged more touches than Cox’s career average.

also Gawn is miles off Cox’s season high averages. Forgot just how many touches big Cox used to rack up. And he made use of them.

 

[300Weatherby]

Interestingly Gawns last three seasons have been the only years he’s averaged more touches than Cox’s career average.

also Gawn is miles of Cox’s season high averages. Forgot just how many touches big Cox used to rack up. And he made use of them.

How many ACL's did Cox have?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

How many ACL's did Cox have?

Availability is the best ability…

 

[300Weatherby]

Availability is the best ability…

I agree, availability during games too. Can't have a ruck sitting on the bench for most of the game

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I agree, availability during games too. Can't have a ruck sitting on the bench for most of the game

Sigh..... You realise we are talking about Cox v Gawn here right?

 

[300Weatherby]

Sigh..... You realise we are talking about Cox v Gawn here right?

I was just using your logic

/shrug

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I was just using your logic

/shrug

We are talking career performance here, not a single season performance for AA.

The point remains, we think of Gawn being a prolific ball winner for a ruck, but Cox was next level.