Cox v Gawn

[Happy Mastenator]

Being tall and travelling on planes does not make someone a better player.

I am tall, too tall for economy seats. Does that now make me a better footballer?

The comment on his travel was nothing to do with his abilities as a player….

 

[Lampers]

The comment on his travel was nothing to do with his abilities as a player….

Correct, so why is it being brought up?

 

[Trav 20]

Cox took game winning/changing marks more often.

This is plucked from nowhere.

Unfortunately, they didn't publish contested marks for much of Cox's career, but they did in two of his 6 AA years.

Cox didn't make AA in 2010, which he played at 28 years of age, but he had 22 CM from 22 games.

In 2011 and 2012 Cox aged 29 and 30 did make AA. He took 42 CM from 25 games in 2011 and 38 from 24 in 2012.

Gawn, aged 30, has taken 50 contested marks from 20 games this year thus far.

There's enough evidence there with both in their prime that Gawn is the superior contested mark. 50 from 20 beats 42 from 25.

Cox got more of the footy and had better skills. Gawn was a better tap ruck, better contested mark, and was also very good for a ruckman with his clearances and amount of disposals.

In fact, Cox averaged 15.9 disposals over his career and Gawn currently averages 15.3 dispoals over his career and is on an upwards trend.

Cox 6xAA and one B&F. Gawn 6xAA and two B&F.

And one is a premiership captain.

I have no qualms treating them as equals.

 

[RAPPA]

This thread needs more Barnaby French

Barnaby French

Age

48

Ht

200cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.2

2star

K

3.5

1star

HB

4.8

3star

HO

13.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.4

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

4.2

4star

HO

13.2

5star

 

[blitzer]

I voted on this one a while ago and had picked Cox but really they probably deserve to be rated on the same tier and it just comes down to preference.

Gawn is better at winning hitouts and taking contested marks around the ground. Also gets more points for versatility given how good he is as an intercepting backman when needed in addition to being capable up forward.
Cox won more ball, used it a fair bit better and I reckon probably had more impact from the hitouts he did win (ie directing his taps). Cox did prove that he was capable up forward as his career went on and Naitanui needed more ruck time but I'd still have Gawn as the better forward all up.

I expect Gawn will finish with more AA's when all is said and done. Although admittedly having a young Naitanui probably limited Cox's ability to rack up some extra AA's later on. Now I know some will compare Jackson but honestly I don't think its comparable and they haven't played together for too long presuming he leaves this year.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Not sure how 1 game can make the difference when we are talking about players who have played 290 games (Cox) and someone who will probably reach 250 games (Gawn) when all is said and done.

If you take the 1 game approach you have to weigh Gawns 2018 prelim against his 2021 prelim for example.

In addition if you want to look at GF’s Cox was the dominant ruck in two grand finals including one of which we won.

the fact is both will have a body of work to look at and judge them on.

He should have won two Norm Smiths

 

[Blackas87]

Although admittedly having a young Naitanui probably limited Cox's ability to rack up some extra AA's later on. Now I know some will compare Jackson but honestly I don't think its comparable and they haven't played together for too long presuming he leaves this year.

Not sure about Naitanui preventing Cox winning All Australians, Cox was All Australian 2011 and 2012 playing along side Naitanui, Naitanui was also All Australian 2012. 2013 Naitanui only played 11 games while Cox played all 22, Cox wasn’t named to the All Australian 40 man squad, Will Minson named All Australian ruck while Goldstein made the squad.

 

[Trav 20]

I present one final statistic...

The highest Cox ever finished in the Coaches Awards was =13th in 2011. In fact, during his 9 years of eligibility (it started in 2006) that was Cox' only top 20 finish.

Gawn won the award in 2018 and has 4 top 20 finishes.

 

[Blackas87]

Unfortunately, they didn't publish contested marks for much of Cox's career, but they did in two of his 6 AA years.

They actually did, started counting in 1999. Cox wasn’t a big contested marker around the ground, numbers improved later in his career though.

2001: 1 from 17 games 0.06
2002: 14 from 19 games 0.74
2003: 12 from 19 games 0.63
2004: 18 from 23 games 0.78
2005: 12 from 25 games 0.48
2006: 11 from 21 games 0.52
2007: 12 from 21 games 0.57
2008: 9 from 22 games 0.41
2009: 14 from 13 games 1.08
2010: 22 from 22 games 1.00
2011: 42 from 25 games 1.68
2012: 38 from 24 games 1.58
2013: 25 from 22 game 1.14
2014: 16 from 17 games 0.94

Cox: 246 from 290 games 0.85
Gawn: 362 from 179 game 2.02

 

[parano1a]

Can someone please update the thread title to indicate which Cox this refers to? I clicked thinking it was about Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

.

 

[Trav 20]

They actually did, started counting in 1999. Cox wasn’t a big contested marker around the ground, numbers improved later in his career though.

2001: 1 from 17 games 0.06
2002: 14 from 19 games 0.74
2003: 12 from 19 games 0.63
2004: 18 from 23 games 0.78
2005: 12 from 25 games 0.48
2006: 11 from 21 games 0.52
2007: 12 from 21 games 0.57
2008: 9 from 22 games 0.41
2009: 14 from 13 games 1.08
2010: 22 from 22 games 1.00
2011: 42 from 25 games 1.68
2012: 38 from 24 games 1.58
2013: 25 from 22 game 1.14
2014: 16 from 17 games 0.94

Cox: 246 from 290 games 0.85
Gawn: 362 from 179 game 2.02

Thanks.

When I go to this link the furthest back it goes is 2006.

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

Love this bit:

Cox: 246 from 290 games 0.85
Gawn: 362 from 179 game 2.02

 

[Blackas87]

Thanks.

When I go to this link the furthest back it goes is 2006.

AFLCA Champion Player of the Year - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

Love this bit:

Cox: 246 from 290 games 0.85
Gawn: 362 from 179 game 2.02

That link is coaches votes, the stats I’ve given are contested marks. Which I got from here.

AFL Tables - Dean Cox - Stats - Statistics

 

[Trav 20]

That link is coaches votes, the stats I’ve given are contested marks. Which I got from here.

AFL Tables - Dean Cox - Stats - Statistics

Got it.

You confused me because the last stats I provided were for coaches votes, so coaches votes were in my head.

Or I confused myself...

 

[Shueygod]

Gawn has been gifted the last three AA’s. Wasn’t the best ruck in any of those years.

Is the most overrated player in the AFL, hack of a kick and only above average tap work.

 

[Oraaaaazio]

Gawn has been gifted the last three AA’s. Wasn’t the best ruck in any of those years.

Is the most overrated player in the AFL, hack of a kick and only above average tap work.

Nah

It's ok to think Cox is better but that's just a 14 year old dummy take

 

[Trav 20]

I don't overly rate Brownlow votes, but there is quite a discrepancy between Gawn's and Cox.

Gawn has 89 votes from 161 games and Cox 71 from 290 games, which is a staggering difference.

From his now 179 games I expect Gawn to break through 100 votes in a few weeks.

He'll have over 30% more votes from 111 less games.

I rate these two as equal, so I find it interesting how Gawn has dominated Cox in both Coaches and Brownlow voting.

 

[KissKiss]

I don't overly rate Brownlow votes, but there is quite a discrepancy between Gawn's and Cox.

Gawn has 89 votes from 161 games and Cox 71 from 290 games, which is a staggering difference.

From his now 179 games I expect Gawn to break through 100 votes in a few weeks.

He'll have over 30% more votes from 111 less games.

I rate these two as equal, so I find it interesting how Gawn has dominated Cox in both Coaches and Brownlow voting.

I was going to say it would be tough to get Brownlow votes when playing with Judd, Cousins and Kerr, but then Oliver and Petracca are pretty good too. Maybe not the same level but could get there pretty soon

 

[Blackas87]

I was going to say it would be tough to get Brownlow votes when playing with Judd, Cousins and Kerr, but then Oliver and Petracca are pretty good too. Maybe not the same level but could get there pretty soon

Judd and Cousins were gone after 2007 (which is the halfway point of Cox’s career) and Kerr never got more than 8 votes in a season from that period. Cox only had one season where he passed 10 votes after 2007

 

[Shueygod]

I don't overly rate Brownlow votes, but there is quite a discrepancy between Gawn's and Cox.

Gawn has 89 votes from 161 games and Cox 71 from 290 games, which is a staggering difference.

From his now 179 games I expect Gawn to break through 100 votes in a few weeks.

He'll have over 30% more votes from 111 less games.

I rate these two as equal, so I find it interesting how Gawn has dominated Cox in both Coaches and Brownlow voting.

Big name players get far more votes these days, used to be about who was the actual best player in the game. Not just who of the big names performed best.

 

[Loz89]

Some high grade cherry picking and minimising where Gawn is undisputedly superior.

Gawn a fair bit taller? 4cm. Most of Cox’s contemporary rucks were around the 200cm mark (Jolly 200, Ottens 202, Jamar 198) with Sandilands the exception at 211. Rucks are taller on average now. Cox at 204 enjoyed a similar height advantage against most opponents as Gawn at 208 does now.

Cox taking more game winning / changing marks… spare me. How many uncontested link marks are game winning or changing?

Cox was an excellent kick and link player and Gawn will never be close to Cox in that regard. Cox also had one season where he kicked over a goal per game, and that was at a similar age to what Gawn is now.

Gawn has Cox covered everywhere else, including leadership. And it’s not close. Gawn has potentially five more seasons in him to go further ahead.

Have a look at the neutral votes. That says it all and clearly you never watched cox play. He took and kicked clutch marks and goals from 05 onwards. Cox definitely the better player

 

[Shueygod]

Gawn just got chopped by Hickey

 

[00Stinger]

Gawn just got chopped by Hickey

Cox never lost a battle?

 

[Lampers]

Have a look at the neutral votes. That says it all and clearly you never watched cox play. He took and kicked clutch marks and goals from 05 onwards. Cox definitely the better player

When do you reckon those votes were cast? Sorry, your boy has been passed by Gawn. Sad for you, but true.

 

[Ginnieboy]

Would be happy to have either but Cox for mine, much better at ground level and IMO was a better tap ruckman, Cox is the best ruckman I’ve seen in my 40 years of watching football, not bad considering he was taken in the rookie draft.

 

[Marvnation]

The game has changed a bit since Cox played.