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Craig & Walker

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conVINCEd said:
Crow-mo, this is nothing but fluff.

If it is always a coach's fault when a player doesn't make it, then it must 'always' be entirely the result of great coaching when a player does succeed. And that is rubbish.

Craig doesn't know that what he has done and is doing with Walker will turn out perfectly, but he 'knows' exactly what he is trying to achieve.
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you almost said the same things...?!?!
 
He said thats not for him to judge, but that he could easily be having a bad influence on him. Amazingly I agree with him.
 
It'll be a fascinating conversation to be had in 10 years or so at the end of Walker's career to consider whether Craig's treatment of Walker over 08-10 where Walker has had to fight for every scrap he's earnt has been for better or worse.

I'd suggest Craig knows very much it's a long-term conversation.

One we're not going to be able to know the end of until we're having it!
 

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Allefgib said:
From what I read, Crow-mo thinks any statements about Craigs having a positive influence on Walker are speculations. Nothing more or less.
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Well in the same vain then, it is also speculation when insisting that the coach has ruined him. :p;)
 
Allefgib said:
Yes - I believe that is part of his point.
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Your pseudo svelte demeanour is cute, but if crow-mo's point is that positive or detrimental effect on young master Walker at the hands of the coach is "pure supposition and speculation" then, equally, his opening line turns to water without the provision of solid player examples. Quite agree with conVINCEd; further tenuous fare off the crow-mo production line.
 
amer said:
Your pseudo svelte demeanour is cute, but if crow-mo's point is that positive or detrimental effect on young master Walker at the hands of the coach is "pure supposition and speculation" then, equally, his opening line turns to water without the provision of solid player examples. Quite agree with conVINCEd; further tenuous fare off the crow-mo production line.
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its ok to ask for help if you don't understand.
 
amer said:
Your pseudo svelte demeanour is cute, but if crow-mo's point is that positive or detrimental effect on young master Walker at the hands of the coach is "pure supposition and speculation" then, equally, his opening line turns to water without the provision of solid player examples. Quite agree with conVINCEd; further tenuous fare off the crow-mo production line.
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Look he obviusly can't be bothered with you; but I enjoy trying to work through things with people (if they are willing to discuss).

Symes
Mattner

I put those names up a few pages back and still no response. 2 good examples of players being 'ruined' (arguably for sure) at one club that went on to be valued and find success at another.
 
Hey Crow-mo welcome back dude, but seriously Walker was too one dimensional and Craig knows this, the days of Ablett Snr and Lockett are over.
As good as they were neither played in a premiership team.
As sad as it sounds we possibly wouldn't have won the GF in 97 had Modra lined up at full forward.
Don't get me wrong I realize it was mainly his endeavors during the season that pushed us into the finals but he was quiet in the 97 prelim before his knee injury..... and the rest is history.
As brilliant as these players were at full forward there was no where else to play them on an off day(as rare as that was but usually during finals).
We need a Walker who, when he is not doing the extraordinary can do the ordinary. to borrow a phrase from Malcolm Blight.
 
I dont understand the critism of craig when it comes to walker. It seems from my observation point that ever since we got walker crows supporters expected this reincarnation of modra and that he should be playing a starring role every game and when that didnt occur and he was dropped it was craigs fault. Since that time there has been nothing but rumour about a relationship problem with no substance to it at all.

You can physically see walker is happy on the field and loves his team mates. you can see how close the group of youngsters in the crows squad are. Walker is set to explode mark my words. each week we see glimpses. the guy is a natural footballer and is fricken strong. just needs one more pre season under his belt to maximise his strength and conditioning and i think he and tippett will take the afl by storm.

big players take time. the season is over for us really so lets just sit back and enjoy walkers development.
 

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Allefgib said:
Look he obviusly can't be bothered with you; but I enjoy trying to work through things with people (if they are willing to discuss).

Symes
Mattner

I put those names up a few pages back and still no response. 2 good examples of players being 'ruined' (arguably for sure) at one club that went on to be valued and find success at another.
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Maybe add Rodan, Tom Harley, Big Bad B (first move to Sydney)?
 
Allefgib said:
Look he obviusly can't be bothered with you; but I enjoy trying to work through things with people (if they are willing to discuss).

Symes
Mattner

I put those names up a few pages back and still no response. 2 good examples of players being 'ruined' (arguably for sure) at one club that went on to be valued and find success at another.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they just didn't fit in with the clubs requirements.
Had they been "ruined" it could be argue that their AFL careers would have been over, but not too ruined that they could not go onto successful careers with other clubs.
 
Huntercrow said:
Hey Crow-mo welcome back dude, but seriously Walker was too one dimensional and Craig knows this, the days of Ablett Snr and Lockett are over.
As good as they were neither played in a premiership team.
As sad as it sounds we possibly wouldn't have won the GF in 97 had Modra lined up at full forward.
Don't get me wrong I realize it was mainly his endeavors during the season that pushed us into the finals but he was quiet in the 97 prelim before his knee injury..... and the rest is history.
As brilliant as these players were at full forward there was no where else to play them on an off day(as rare as that was but usually during finals).
We need a Walker who, when he is not doing the extraordinary can do the ordinary. to borrow a phrase from Malcolm Blight.
Click to expand...

He hurt his knee at the 20 minute mark of the first quarter.
 
you cant argue mattner was runied by the crows. thats crap. he was given every chance. however the crows did the right thing by him and asked if he wanted to move because they wanted to create a faster squad and they thought mattner couldnt help them in that department.

Symes was ruined by mark williams. no doubt. i couldnt beleive a player of his quality was overlooked every week. the kid is I beleive in any teams best 22 as a running line breaker. port stuffed up letting him go thats for sure.
 
jo172 said:
It'll be a fascinating conversation to be had in 10 years or so at the end of Walker's career to consider whether Craig's treatment of Walker over 08-10 where Walker has had to fight for every scrap he's earnt has been for better or worse.

I'd suggest Craig knows very much it's a long-term conversation.

One we're not going to be able to know the end of until we're having it!
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We won't know whether it was 'right' or not because the alternative option (continuing to play him last season and this season) will have been untried.

What's known is that he kicked a heap of goals as a 16 year old in Broken Hill A Grade senior footy. That he kicked 50+ goals in the SANFL as a 17/18 year old. Also that he kicked 5 goals in a half against the reigning premiers as an 18 year old in his 9th or 10th AFL game.

So we know his starting point was extremely high.

Given what NC inherited, what is a pass mark?
 
Craigy gave him a mention post game. It seems to me he actually went out of his way to talk positively him.
 

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adelaidecrows said:
you cant argue mattner was runied by the crows. thats crap. he was given every chance. however the crows did the right thing by him and asked if he wanted to move because they wanted to create a faster squad and they thought mattner couldnt help them in that department.

Symes was ruined by mark williams. no doubt. i couldnt beleive a player of his quality was overlooked every week. the kid is I beleive in any teams best 22 as a running line breaker. port stuffed up letting him go thats for sure.
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Look it will come down to opinion and interpretation but you CAN aruge Mattner was being ruined at the crows. His footy was going drastically backwards. His confidence was shot to pieces and it continually looked like he had been hung out to dry.

Back on Tex - fantastic game today for mine. Just couldn't convert. The way he and tips played off each other today has us all salivating for the future I'm sure.

Now who knows if its the fact he's been given games week on week that has been more of a difference than being dropped again earlier in the season. As Crow-Mo alluded to, we don't know and now he's play well Craigy can say he did the right thing. But as others have reinforced you can't KNOW because we never tried the other...
 
Allefgib said:
Look it will come down to opinion and interpretation but you CAN aruge Mattner was being ruined at the crows. His footy was going drastically backwards. His confidence was shot to pieces and it continually looked like he had been hung out to dry.

Back on Tex - fantastic game today for mine. Just couldn't convert. The way he and tips played off each other today has us all salivating for the future I'm sure.

Now who knows if its the fact he's been given games week on week that has been more of a difference than being dropped again earlier in the season. As Crow-Mo alluded to, we don't know and now he's play well Craigy can say he did the right thing. But as others have reinforced you can't KNOW because we never tried the other...
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So therefore - you can't argue the opposite and, quite frankly, it's kind of pointless arguing at ALL. Which has been my point on many of these "discussions" which I have been howled down in no uncertain terms and resulted in me being branded a "sycophant" and "yes" man.
 
Allefgib said:
Look he obviusly can't be bothered with you; but I enjoy trying to work through things with people (if they are willing to discuss).

Symes
Mattner

I put those names up a few pages back and still no response. 2 good examples of players being 'ruined' (arguably for sure) at one club that went on to be valued and find success at another.
Click to expand...

Mattner has been spoken about at length (made mention of it a few posts back even), no point going any further with that one. There's an argument, a counter-argument but it's a pretty marginal debate when the reference frame for his "pre-ruin" state is a single, solitary year of football. One that meant heightened attention in the years that followed.

Symes is an immediate scratching in the minds of most surely. Nothing has changed with him, he simply found greater opportunity at another club. If his leg had gone from apparently elite to the level it is now, there'd be a case but he's the same player he was at the Power it would appear.
 
jenny61_99 said:
So therefore - you can't argue the opposite and, quite frankly, it's kind of pointless arguing at ALL. Which has been my point on many of these "discussions" which I have been howled down in no uncertain terms and resulted in me being branded a "sycophant" and "yes" man.
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What was argued by many, me included, was that he should have played ahead of Burton. That's slightly different to which approach has him playing good footy now or was the best for his development.

And there is no harm in having an opinion on such things and voicing them.

I think you're labelling, whilst unfair at times, was over far wider ranging debates than how to manage invidiaul players. Calling people who didn't agree with the club on some issues 'bad supporters' being a prime one.
 
amer said:
Mattner has been spoken about at length (made mention of it a few posts back even), no point going any further with that one. There's an argument, a counter-argument but it's a pretty marginal debate when the reference frame for his "pre-ruin" state is a single, solitary year of football. One that meant heightened attention in the years that followed.

Symes is an immediate scratching in the minds of most surely. Nothing has changed with him, he simply found greater opportunity at another club. If his leg had gone from apparently elite to the level it is now, there'd be a case but he's the same player he was at the Power it would appear.
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I guess I feel 'not cosidered good enough to play for the club' as 'ruined' whereas you are taking a more hardline view of the statement.

Fair enough - not sure your interpretation is how Crow-Mo intended the comment but I could be wrong.
 

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