Game Day Crap selection and game plan

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PKPK

Draftee
Sep 29, 2016
12
18
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
In the cold hard light of day our coach needs to address the following imo
1/ have faith in playing a second tall ruckman. This would in effect:
-release English to play a little bit more forward, which forces opposition teams to change in response to that;
-gives us a big marking target to kick long to;
-prevents guns like Bont & others having to contest ruck contests (when they are ruck it takes them out of the ground ball
2/ tag opposition guns who hurt us around the ball
3/ JUST PLAY SWEET AND SEE IF IT MAKES OUR STRUCTURE AND ABILITY TO SCORE IMPROVE. He won’t be any worse than half the small players who get a go.
 

perro_loco

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Apr 10, 2016
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Very fresh take. I've never seen these exact same opinions posted a thousand times in every thread. Glad you made a thread for what is definitely not a very banal post.
Listen scrag don't pick on my buddy PKPK because he is totally correct, irrespective of his banality!!!! I am starting to think, tbh, that Bevo needs to have a mentor. Otherwise, I am beginning to think that his coaching strategy is basically not up to AFL level the way things are going atm. Furthermore, I am of the opinion that if this does not change, then we need to seriously start thinking about a new replacement. 7 years is a long time for a coach. it may be time to get someone with fresh ideas and a different game plan that does not rely on midgets to win a game.
 

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doggies ftw

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2008
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Bevo is cooked - unfortunately he has free reign of the club for the next 12 years because he fluked a flag.

But I don’t say this lightly, he’s not very good. Great people person, unfortunately these players have heard it all before, there’s only so much that can be said to get us up and about week in week out. We have seen ZERO development in our game plan in 6 years, we have never made the top 4 because we cannot play consistent footy. We rely on individual player brilliance and 120% effort at the ball carrier which is NOT sustainable week in week out.

Good teams have a system in place which allows them to the be a little bit down from time to time and grind out wins anyway - we are not and have NEVER been a good team under Bev.

I’m sorry but why do you think we miss easy goals? We battle undermanned in every position on the ground and are expected to pressure 100% of the time - our players are rooted.

So much needs to change yet we have a coach who cannot adapt whether that’s because he just doesn’t have the ability or because he refuses to be wrong I’m not sure, probably the latter. Watch him double down this week on his mistakes, we’ll pants North and he’ll be seen as a hero internally again and go on his merry ways for the next 12 years.

Honestly. If you disagree with me answer this, have we as a football team, improved over the past 6 years? Has our gameplan developed with the times? Have individual players improved? Absolutely they have, but have we?

That’s all that needs to be said really, time to go Bev - I really hope he has the decency to go himself because unfortunately the club just won’t do it.
 

Freshwater

Club Legend
Oct 30, 2014
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We have said it so often, but how does the board not address the fact Bevo does not have a senior assistant coach? Someone who has been head coach before at ours or another club. We are the only club that has never had one I think. Melbourne have had multiple recently; McCartney, Williams and Richardson. Every seriously club utilises them. This is exactly the boards role. Not to make weird press releases like last weeks ‘through and through’ fluff piece in the media or whether the board has the ‘correct’ politically correct diversity quotas or whether Bevo needs to apologise for calling out a media grub etc. Their main role is about providing the best opportunity to win, representing the Footscray Football Club. Not only do we not have a former coach on the coaching panel, we went with much less experience in losing Hansen and King but brought in less experience than in the past. Fresh blood and ideas are important, but there needs to be balance. There is no way they could or would challenge Bevo, that is where an experienced campaigner, who doesn’t really get worried by those sort of things is vital. This is the boards role and from the moment I heard we were again not getting an experienced assistant coach I thought that will not work out well.
 

doggies ftw

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2008
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Were a good team in 2015, 2016 and 2021. Very good in 2016 and 2021. You are extremely disrespectful to those of us who treasure the 2016 flag by saying it was a fluke. How much of a sook are you to put down your own club like that. Jog on ****ant and cry somwhere else.
Best day of my life, obvious fluke all things considered though.

Take 2016 out of it - have we improved or developed our game plan at all?
 

VogonProsthetnic

Premiership Player
Apr 26, 2010
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Bevo is cooked - unfortunately he has free reign of the club for the next 12 years because he fluked a flag.

But I don’t say this lightly, he’s not very good. Great people person, unfortunately these players have heard it all before, there’s only so much that can be said to get us up and about week in week out. We have seen ZERO development in our game plan in 6 years, we have never made the top 4 because we cannot play consistent footy. We rely on individual player brilliance and 120% effort at the ball carrier which is NOT sustainable week in week out.

Good teams have a system in place which allows them to the be a little bit down from time to time and grind out wins anyway - we are not and have NEVER been a good team under Bev.

I’m sorry but why do you think we miss easy goals? We battle undermanned in every position on the ground and are expected to pressure 100% of the time - our players are rooted.

So much needs to change yet we have a coach who cannot adapt whether that’s because he just doesn’t have the ability or because he refuses to be wrong I’m not sure, probably the latter. Watch him double down this week on his mistakes, we’ll pants North and he’ll be seen as a hero internally again and go on his merry ways for the next 12 years.

Honestly. If you disagree with me answer this, have we as a football team, improved over the past 6 years? Has our gameplan developed with the times? Have individual players improved? Absolutely they have, but have we?

That’s all that needs to be said really, time to go Bev - I really hope he has the decency to go himself because unfortunately the club just won’t do it.

Interestingly if you go back to the posts in 2017 and we had exactly the same problems-

Undersized in all positions, totally dependent upon high pressure intensity, which when it wanes exposes our small defence, terrible goalkicking, over dependence on multiple handball chains which good opposition can break down and injuries as a result of our intense gamestyle and being undersized.

Good to see that we have advanced in all that time.
 

redmania

Senior List
Jun 19, 2016
191
215
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Bevo is cooked - unfortunately he has free reign of the club for the next 12 years because he fluked a flag.

But I don’t say this lightly, he’s not very good. Great people person, unfortunately these players have heard it all before, there’s only so much that can be said to get us up and about week in week out. We have seen ZERO development in our game plan in 6 years, we have never made the top 4 because we cannot play consistent footy. We rely on individual player brilliance and 120% effort at the ball carrier which is NOT sustainable week in week out.

Good teams have a system in place which allows them to the be a little bit down from time to time and grind out wins anyway - we are not and have NEVER been a good team under Bev.

I’m sorry but why do you think we miss easy goals? We battle undermanned in every position on the ground and are expected to pressure 100% of the time - our players are rooted.

So much needs to change yet we have a coach who cannot adapt whether that’s because he just doesn’t have the ability or because he refuses to be wrong I’m not sure, probably the latter. Watch him double down this week on his mistakes, we’ll pants North and he’ll be seen as a hero internally again and go on his merry ways for the next 12 years.

Honestly. If you disagree with me answer this, have we as a football team, improved over the past 6 years? Has our gameplan developed with the times? Have individual players improved? Absolutely they have, but have we?

That’s all that needs to be said really, time to go Bev - I really hope he has the decency to go himself because unfortunately the club just won’t do it.
I have to agree. Blink and we will lose this opportunity for another flag. Whilst there are list problems....th coaching lets us down. As much as I love bevo, I feel we need to inject something new in. Time for a change I think before the window shuts.
 

gordo2016

Premiership Player
Aug 13, 2017
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Best day of my life, obvious fluke all things considered though.

Take 2016 out of it - have we improved or developed our game plan at all?
Makes a lot of sense. Best day of your life and yet you discredit it when things don't go your way. Then you cover your bases by saying "we'll pants North. " So your're just waiting for the next inevitable bad loss and you will say the same thing and come out with " Oh, I was right," as if you made some ground breaking revelation. You can read you like a book mate, you are adding nothing.
 

doggies ftw

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2008
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Makes a lot of sense. Best day of your life and yet you discredit it when things don't go your way. Then you cover your bases by saying "we'll pants North. " So your're just waiting for the next inevitable bad loss and you will say the same thing and come out with " Oh, I was right," as if you made some ground breaking revelation. You can read you like a book mate, you are adding nothing.
You got me mate, nailed me, I’ve been just about the most positive bloke on here for like 12 + years. All just to finally troll the club at this moment.

* you’re a genius mate - tell us some more inside info, whose debut is it this week?
 

Bulldogs85

Premiership Player
Sep 25, 2016
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You got me mate, nailed me, I’ve been just about the most positive bloke on here for like 12 + years. All just to finally troll the club at this moment.

fu** you’re a genius mate - tell us some more inside info, whose debut is it this week?
Hopefully Arthur Jones makes his debut against north Melbourne 😃
 

ScragCity

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Sep 7, 2015
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Yeah I don't really think describing a flag as a "fluke" makes much sense. We definitely overperformed though. We weren't the best team in the comp that year, but we were the best for four weeks. Fluke implies something that was pure luck.
 

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bullish23

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Oct 2, 2002
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What depressed me watching the 2s was that Richmond have another tall ruck developing correctly in Samson Ryan. Was playing second fiddle to Soldo even in the seconds, but they clearly have a plan in the way they develop these types as he took over the rucking duties around the 17min mark of each qtr. (PS, don’t bother coming at me saying he’s crap etc., its the program and the way talls are respected at tiger-land is what‘s envious).
 

Norm De Guerre

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Playing Sweet, a clearly cooked Martin, getting a senior assistant coach to temper Boss Bevo supposed megalomania, higher credentialed assistants or any other excuse you care to name, would do nothing to address the horrendous confidence sapping yips that we are currently experiencing in in front of the goals. No amount of goal kicking practice at Whitten Oval with a specialist forward coach is going to address the mental fragility that this side possesses when the heat is turned up on them or a gun mid decides to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

The unpalatable reality is that the one reliable avenue that we have to goal will be sitting out the game until late August. There was never going to be suitable replacement for him with whatever currency was left over after we invested so heavily in Darcy last year. We had no choice but to go with what we had and as is the bulldogs way. Hope for the best. Ideally JUH would be learning his trade as a 3rd tall or at Footscray. Not being forced into a role that he is currently ill equiped physically to undertake as a foil for Naughton who is getting smothered to death by multiple defenders each week. Sure, we could play English in the Bruce role, but that would mean bringing in the ponderously slow Martin or the ponderous Sweet and the havoc that opposition rucks would wreak around the ground doesn't bear thinking about.

Should we have recruited a journeyman back-up ruckman given our lack of currency because of how tied up draft hand has been for over consecutive seasons and taken Martin out behind the shed? Uh, maybe... However, who's to say that we didnt try that route only to be rebuffed by the ones that may've been available? I don't think anybody here can conclusively say with any certainty that we didn't. Given that we waited until after the trade period to announce that Martin would trudge around for another season in what was clearly a break glass option. I suspect (without certainty) that its probable that we looked under ever rock for another ruckman who was ready to play.

Anyways...It's on the ******* players that we have to get their head out of their arses and pull us out of this death spiral.

A horse, a horse, my kingdom for, the steadying influence and steal of a Matt Boyd or Dale Morris in this side.
 
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CarnTheScray

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2019
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It’s not just key position stocks, we don’t even have any natural small/medium forwards playing right now or on the list that are at the level needed for AFL. I get we got some young players in the VFL but the fact that we have no mature medium/small forwards is a bit worrying.

If our talls (Naughton) don’t mark the ball it is usually waltzed right back out of the forward line.
 

BEaston

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Oct 9, 2013
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Yeah I don't really think describing a flag as a "fluke" makes much sense. We definitely overperformed though. We weren't the best team in the comp that year, but we were the best for four weeks. Fluke implies something that was pure luck.
I don't buy into concepts like under/over performing or other similar turn of phrases like "deserved" to win/lose.

If we performed to a certain level, it's evidence in itself of not over performing. Having the mental fortitude to play at your best when required is a skill like any other. You could argue we did this better than anyone, despite possibly lagging in other areas. The total of which is reflected on the score board.

Also, peaking finals is a skill in itself which you could say we are fairly good at which has gone some way to our end of season results.
 

ScragCity

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Sep 7, 2015
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I don't buy into concepts like under/over performing or other similar turn of phrases like "deserved" to win/lose.

If we performed to a certain level, it's evidence in itself of not over performing. Having the mental fortitude to play at your best when required is a skill like any other. You could argue we did this better than anyone, despite possibly lagging in other areas. The total of which is reflected on the score board.

Also, peaking finals is a skill in itself which you could say we are fairly good at which has gone some way to our end of season results.

Maybe we have different definitions of "overperforming." I'd consider overperforming to be something like performing at the top 10% of your capacity four times in a row, or some similar extremely improbable performance outcome. Something that is possible but unlikely to be repeated. That's along the lines of what I'd consider overperforming. I wouldn't conflate it with "deserved," which I don't believe in as a concept.
 

doggies ftw

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2008
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Fluke obviously not the right word I’ll take that back, overperformed is a good way to put it I think Scrag summed that up perfectly.

What I’m getting at is the fact that we haven’t finished top 4 in any year under Bev is the extremely concerning thing - that’s the benchmark for being a very good side. Putting yourself in the top 4 with a relatively consistent performance across the year and giving yourself every chance to win the thing.

Have we been a very good side for periods throughout a season - absolutely we have. But why has this not translated to a consistent enough performance across the board to finish in the top handful of clubs? The fact that we can then blitz the best teams in a 4 week run of brilliant footy at the hardest time of the year is in fact more of a concern because it shows we’re more than capable when we want to be - so what’s holding us back? Also let’s not act like we do this every year, we’ve done it twice out of 5 final series.

There’s really 3 things it can be - A) Personnel does not have the ability required, B) Mentally we’re not up to it, C) Gameplan/style/structure whatever you want to f*n call it is not good enough

I guess it’s probably a varying degree of each but I’d say the fact that we show we can be the best side in the league every now and then means you can mostly cross out A - we’ve got holes sure (that we haven’t addressed) as any side does but we show we can cover them when we play at our best.

So why aren’t we playing at our best more often, either we’re not motivated (coaching problem at the end of the day), or we’re not well drilled enough to maintain our brand of football, either because we haven’t been trained properly to do this or because maybe it’s too complicated or just downright unrealistic to play the way we want to play in a perfect world for 26 weeks of the year.

Either way in my mind signs are quite clearly pointing to these issues stemming from a coaching/management issue - yes the coaches aren’t the ones going out there and missing goals but * we’ve got much bigger issues than a few missed shots on goals. We’re literally bereft of any confidence in our game, the dropped chest marks, missed 20m targets. There’s something seriously wrong and as a very outsiders assumption - it just looks like we’ve lost our drive, the midfield looks banged up and tired (don’t blame them) players probably do have gripes with selection and what not (considering it looks completely ridiculous from outside the 4 walls)

We look like we’ve lost confidence in our ability, if things don’t pick up in the next month (and they can be turned around still) I worry it’s a slippery slope and we’re probably sitting here at the end of the season with another player exodus and another new coach wondering what coulda been
 
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BEaston

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Oct 9, 2013
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Maybe we have different definitions of "overperforming." I'd consider overperforming to be something like performing at the top 10% of your capacity four times in a row, or some similar extremely improbable performance outcome. Something that is possible but unlikely to be repeated. That's along the lines of what I'd consider overperforming. I wouldn't conflate it with "deserved," which I don't believe in as a concept.
Yeah probably different definitions, so agree to disagree on the whole.

I would just add from from my point, I wouldn't call that overperforming as even the way you've framed it is in probabilities, which to me indicates some aspect of something uncontrollable. I think that being able to perform at the top 10% of your capacity four times in a row is a skill in itself, which can be honed/practiced and therefore influenced and ultimately controlled. I think 2016 and 2021 showed it's something our team has a pretty good strength in.
 

doggies ftw

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2008
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Look at all the individual successful position changes under Bev - Boyd, Picken, Wallis briefly, Daniel, Dale etc they’re all guys who found a specific role that suited their strengths and then flourished in it. I think Bevs flexibility mantra is my most hated trait - expecting guys like Young, Hannan, Schache etc who haven’t mastered a single position on the ground to play 3 important roles in the same game - what the actual * is that?
Drives me insane
 

immortalmike

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You got me mate, nailed me, I’ve been just about the most positive bloke on here for like 12 + years. All just to finally troll the club at this moment.

fu** you’re a genius mate - tell us some more inside info, whose debut is it this week?
I'll back you up in this. We've had several bitch fights on here when I've previously posted much of what you just did. You were unwavering for a while.
 

Optimistic Dog

Club Legend
Oct 11, 2014
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Everyone knows it we are a team of A to A plus midfielders. A handful of skilful non key position players such as Caleb and Dale. One key position topliner in Naughton who cannot kick. One ruckman that is very good around the ground and terrible in the ruck with no backup. We have couple of B graders like Keath and Bruce when fit. The rest are C or D graders at present with couple of the young ones such as Jamarra and Sam Darcy when he gets on the park the chance to be very good.

When we get the game on our terms and execute well we are capable of being a top 4 team as proven in the finals last season. When we do not we are very average like our last 7 H &A games (21/22) one win.

I will pluck a team to compare our team at the moment. Just at random the Blues who still have a lot to prove and have an the advantage of early picks for being crap for so long. They are probably still a bit behind us in the midfield however head shoulders above us in key position with Mckay, Curnow, Weitering and improved McGovern down back. A bash and crash ruckman in Pittonet and up and coming De Koning.


So it is what is dominate the midfield or we get beat. It got us to the GF in 2021 but it is hard to see us going that far this season.
 
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