Game Day Crap selection and game plan

[immortalmike]

I'm of the opinion that we have an ordinary list but I don't necessarily agree that we have overperformed. 2016 was a bit of an anomaly and we certainly overperformed for those 4 weeks. Last year we made a GF, but it was a bit of a soft finals run. We played Essendon, who really weren't a finals quality side. We had a close win over Brisbane who were a serious side. Then we were lucky enough to face an overconfident Port, who had a soft underbelly and have since been exposed as pretenders. So I'll concede that we overperformed for four weeks out of six years. For the rest we have had the results you'd expect from a mid-tier list with a mid-tier coach. Is Bevo culpable for the weaknesses in our list? To some extent, probably. But we don't have the worst list in the comp either, so does Bevo get credit for the strengths we have? Does he get credit for recruiting Keath and Bruce? Does he get credit for drafting Naughton? Does he get credit for developing English into one of the best young rucks in the comp?

Yes he does to various degrees of course he does.
For some including myself. That isn't enough to have as much power and influence as he has.

 

[ScragCity]

Yes he does to various degrees of course he does.
For some including myself. That isn't enough to have as much power and influence as he has.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. We could also probably infer, from our inability to afford any decent quality assistants, that he's also overpaid.

 

[Jeff 1975]

It’s frustrating the number of times we’ve seen a capable list yet for various reasons we kept falling short of success. 2016 aside, we had a list in 2009 that could have done it, and lists in 85, 97 & 98 that should have done it.

Agree

Thought 1992 was pretty good

Even in 74 and 76 two good sides but vastly different in players

 

[immortalmike]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. We could also probably infer, from our inability to afford any decent quality assistants, that he's also overpaid.

Also that running a profit is more important than properly funding the football department.

 

[_Mike_]

Agree

Thought 1992 was pretty good

Even in 74 and 76 two good sides but vastly different in players

The 1992 side was good, but outclassed by Geelong in the finals, as usual.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

I think we're seeing an interesting delineation between those who feel that Beveridge has a good/great list that has underperformed and those that feel he has had an okay to ordinary list that has overperformed.

What both sides fail to see is that the fatal flaw in I.e. the ordinary list or the underperformance are both the fault of Beveridge himself.

He has had long enough to mould the list as he sees fit and/or fashion a game plan that would lead to sustained success. Instead we are seeing a failure to sustain winning performance past a few weeks at a time and the same issues being present since 2017.

Something has needed to change for five years. I'm starting to worry that it's all too far gone.

I'm actually of the opinion that we do have great list and have performed within the band of our capability but I don't believe we have a list that is complete enough for a sustained period such as Geelong, Hawks or Tigers. We lack 2-3 AA quality talls like Hawkins, Buddy, Riewold or Rance. Hell there is even a case to be made that we've been the 4th best team in the competition on average over the last decade in the AFL.

There are valid reasons that I don't blame Bevo for our drop in 2017 and lack of sustained success. T Boyd's depression is #1. Picken's concussion, Smith's injuries, Mclean's ACL, Bruce ACL, Stringer being a total flog... We would be a 3-4 goal better side on average with these guys in. A spine and ruck with Boyd, Naughto, Bruce, Keath and English is good enough for sustained success. Realistically we could have won a 2nd premiership. This was the plan and would have solved many of our issues!

It seems like Bevo has been trying to address the issues, but the KPP we've recruited haven't developed to be dangerous enough (yet). Hence he plays a smaller sized team and bases our game off run and carry. The medium term future with JUH and Darcy coming through looks pretty bright. If they turn out to be AA quality plus 1-2 big bodied recruits we may get that period of sustained success we're all after

 

[Maverick Dog]

It’s frustrating the number of times we’ve seen a capable list yet for various reasons we kept falling short of success. 2016 aside, we had a list in 2009 that could have done it, and lists in 85, 97 & 98 that should have done it.

I always thought our list just had too many holes in all our Prelim Losses. Not once did I think our list was top 2. We came against some dominant teams but 97 we got lucky how the finals went and we should have won. I do think our best 22 is equal to Dees talent wise and better than lions. Keath is good defender and O’Brien and Gardner can play their roles. Both are not liabilities now. English is finally showing his potential And could become a top 2-3 ruckman. With Bruce, Keath, English, MCLean, JJ and Hunter back for Cordy, Roarke, Mccomb, McNeil and VDM i think we match Dees talent wise. Of Course they smash us on the coaching side.

 

[D Mitchell]

...Of Course they smash us on the coaching side.

That's a fair backhander, MD.

 

[Foxman98]

We have a good best 22 but a poor list. If you look at our depth it is shocking 1 injury to Bruce, Keath and English and what have we got to bring in? Bevo is a very good emotional motivator but as an overall coach the jury is out for me.

 

[Sharpiesadog]

We have a good best 22 but a poor list. If you look at our depth it is shocking 1 injury to Bruce, Keath and English and what have we got to bring in? Bevo is a very good emotional motivator but as an overall coach the jury is out for me.

I agree, not enough talls on our list. It has been this way for a long time.

To be fair though, Melbourne would be much less impressive if they lost Gawn, May and Ben Brown for a period of time, plus a few other good foot soldiers equivalent to McLean, JJ, Hunter.

 

[CarnTheScray]

I always thought our list just had too many holes in all our Prelim Losses. Not once did I think our list was top 2. We came against some dominant teams but 97 we got lucky how the finals went and we should have won. I do think our best 22 is equal to Dees talent wise and better than lions. Keath is good defender and O’Brien and Gardner can play their roles. Both are not liabilities now. English is finally showing his potential And could become a top 2-3 ruckman. With Bruce, Keath, English, MCLean, JJ and Hunter back for Cordy, Roarke, Mccomb, McNeil and VDM i think we match Dees talent wise. Of Course they smash us on the coaching side.

Keath wouldn’t get a game in Melbourne’s best 22. He’d be their 4th or 5th KPD in line. Shows you the difference between the two lists.

 

[Foxman98]

I agree, not enough talls on our list. It has been this way for a long time.

To be fair though, Melbourne would be much less impressive if they lost Gawn, May and Ben Brown for a period of time, plus a few other good foot soldiers equivalent to McLean, JJ, Hunter.

They had Jackson out this week and Lever previously and have the depth to cover. They have done very well over the last couple of years and are set up accordingly

 

[doggies ftw]

Keath wouldn’t get a game in Melbourne’s best 22. He’d be their 4th or 5th KPD in line. Shows you the difference between the two lists.

Lol wot? Personally I’d take Keath over Lever for a one off game - Levers good but he has an easy job in a system built for him, he’d probably struggle a bit in our backline to be completely honest.

But even giving you May & Lever, who are these 3rd & even 4th defenders that are better than Keath?

 

[CarnTheScray]

Lol wot? Personally I’d take Keath over Lever for a one off game - Levers good but he has an easy job in a system built for him, he’d probably struggle a bit in our backline to be completely honest.

But even giving you May & Lever, who are these 3rd & even 4th defenders that are better than Keath?

Tomlinson and Petty. No way known they’d play Keath before Petty.

 

[immortalmike]

Keath wouldn’t get a game in Melbourne’s best 22. He’d be their 4th or 5th KPD in line. Shows you the difference between the two lists.

What!? Keath is every bit as good as May and better than Lever. He's also twice the player of Tomlinson and Petty.

 

[CarnTheScray]

What!? Keath is every bit as good as May and better than Lever. He's also twice the player of Tomlinson and Petty.

At his best he is but he looks like he has slowed down in recent games, hope it was just his injuries.

Either way we are a way better side with him in. I think O Brien will shine more with Keath in.

 

[Outback Footy]

The problem isnt that we've lost 4 games, 3 which were winnable, its how bad the structure was during those games. While the Carlton loss was attributed to the forwards not being able to kick goals that day, Bevo persists in playing a flawed structure emphasized by the injuries/outs the team has.

True Mike, some of the structure is already dictated by outs though. The point I was trying to make was that its not all doom n glooom, stop panicing folks.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Slightly off topic but related to why we need to get things right now,IMO, is that we cannot rely on this golden run of father-sons to go on forever. I hope it does but the law of averages would dictate that we will get a lesser share of successes sometime.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Why is a Carlton fan stalking this thread?

 

[D Mitchell]

Slightly off topic but related to why we need to get things right now,IMO, is that we cannot rely on this golden run of father-sons to go on forever. I hope it does but the law of averages would dictate that we will get a lesser share of successes sometime.

Maybe that's already upon us. Libber isn't what he was, Wallis in and out, Cordy under rated but hardly starring and Hunter out indefinitely. The Club goes out of its way to encourage the trend through the father-son program. They don't all make it, the Club gets the pick. It's a feel good thing for members and supporters, I didn't like a North Melbourne Spargo and now a Melbourne Spargo, less so the Brisbane McPherson because the club chose not to take him on board.

 

[ScragCity]

One time at the footy, Bevo was walking up the race beside where I was sitting. I said something along the lines of "Onya Bevo!"
Well, he stopped dead and looked me straight in the eye in the most intimidating way. He reached towards me and I swear I s**t myself, thinking he had mistaken me for Tom Morris and was about to choke me out. Then he took my pie from my hand, licked all the sauce off, handed it back to me and said "You're welcome for 2016," then stormed back up the race.
I haven't been back to the footy since that and I don't think I will ever go again.

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

One time at the footy, Bevo was walking up the race beside where I was sitting. I said something along the lines of "Onya Bevo!"
Well, he stopped dead and looked me straight in the eye in the most intimidating way. He reached towards me and I swear I s**t myself, thinking he had mistaken me for Tom Morris and was about to choke me out. Then he took my pie from my hand, licked all the sauce off, handed it back to me and said "You're welcome for 2016," then stormed back up the race.
I haven't been back to the footy since that and I don't think I will ever go again.

Did you eat the pie?

 

[D Mitchell]

One time at the footy, Bevo was walking up the race beside where I was sitting. I said something along the lines of "Onya Bevo!"
Well, he stopped dead and looked me straight in the eye in the most intimidating way. He reached towards me and I swear I s**t myself, thinking he had mistaken me for Tom Morris and was about to choke me out. Then he took my pie from my hand, licked all the sauce off, handed it back to me and said "You're welcome for 2016," then stormed back up the race.
I haven't been back to the footy since that and I don't think I will ever go again.

Your own fault, Scrag, he's Mr Beveridge until you are formally introduced. Mr Beveridge can lick the sauce off my pie any time he likes.

 

[Libba39]

What!? Keath is every bit as good as May and better than Lever. He's also twice the player of Tomlinson and Petty.

Sorry but you're way way off the mark here IM.

May is the best full back in the league, and whilst Keath is a good player her doesn't have near half the closing speed as May for shutting down the leads of the quick forwards.

 

[dogwatch]

One time at the footy, Bevo was walking up the race beside where I was sitting. I said something along the lines of "Onya Bevo!"
Well, he stopped dead and looked me straight in the eye in the most intimidating way. He reached towards me and I swear I s**t myself, thinking he had mistaken me for Tom Morris and was about to choke me out. Then he took my pie from my hand, licked all the sauce off, handed it back to me and said "You're welcome for 2016," then stormed back up the race.
I haven't been back to the footy since that and I don't think I will ever go again.

Are you sure you didn't interpose the word "bike" in that interjection Scrag?