Game Day Crap selection and game plan

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immortalmike

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Sorry but you're way way off the mark here IM.

May is the best full back in the league, and whilst Keath is a good player her doesn't have near half the closing speed as May for shutting down the leads of the quick forwards.
No I'm not. The fact that Keath is as good as he is in our shitty system is testament to how good he is.
 

doggies ftw

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No I'm not. The fact that Keath is as good as he is in our shitty system is testament to how good he is.
Mays got him pipped these days as Keath seems to be slowing down and May getting better. Couldn’t complain with either though. Keath > Lever, Petty and obviously Tomlinson.

Was a strange call
 

doggies ftw

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I was of the opinion Bev just needed help and he was the right man to lead us forward but nah, he ain’t changing and he ain’t listening to anyone else and he’s now officially out of touch. He’s so far off the pace of the current game it’s not funny and we need a change.

We need to overhaul our whole football department right now, let him know we’re looking to the future - he can stay and see out his contract but we’re playing the kids and not rebuilding but just starting over.

Tell him he’s free to look at offers, of which he’d have plenty, he’d probably be really good in a role overseeing a football department - where’s a little bit more removed from the day to day emotions of things, hell I’d love him in that role for us as he’s a great people person and people manager, with a new coach but obviously that won’t work as he’s too invested in this team and needs a new challenge.

Obviously he’d leave at the end of the year and we’d have the best candidates in the industry jumping at the chance to coach this list - let the current assistants see out 2023 and then let the new coach make a decision on who he wants to stay and who he wants us to bring in.

We need a fresh approach and a change in how we do things, and it’s not happening under the current regime. Plus there’s no better time than right now in our current transitioning phase where the core of our list is still young enough to contribute in our next run, and the the new era is just starting to come through.

It is the perfect time for a fresh start, unfortunately this won’t happen as the AFL industry is so set in their ways with this and coaches only leave at the absolute bottom of a rut for a club
 

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immortalmike

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Mays got him pipped these days as Keath seems to be slowing down and May getting better. Couldn’t complain with either though. Keath > Lever, Petty and obviously Tomlinson.

Was a strange call
They're the same age. But Keath has less miles on his body. I wouldn't count him out just yet. The hammys are a worry but if he can get them right I think he can play until 35-36.

I feel like with his style and personality May's cliff will come quicker than expected.
 

Some Idiot

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Sorry but you're way way off the mark here IM.

May is the best full back in the league, and whilst Keath is a good player her doesn't have near half the closing speed as May for shutting down the leads of the quick forwards.
Not sure May is the best, he's in great form the past 18 months, but he has history of being terribly inconsistent.
Harris Andrews has been elite for longer and Sam Taylor from GWS is playing some really nice football. May provides more of an offensive threat but he doesn't defend as well as those guys.
 

_Mike_

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I think we need to look beyond game day and look at structure and coaching. We have Spangher coaching the forwards (FMD) and Webb coaching the mids/stoppages. These two replaced Hansen and King who moved at the end of last season.

Replace Spangher with someone who's coached and played forward, same as Webb (for mids/stoppages)
 

Virgin Dog

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I think we need to look beyond game day and look at structure and coaching. We have Spangher coaching the forwards (FMD) and Webb coaching the mids/stoppages. These two replaced Hansen and King who moved at the end of last season.

Replace Spangher with someone who's coached and played forward, same as Webb (for mids/stoppages)
Webb was really good in his time in the WAFL (won a flag as senior coach, was previously an assistant at Freo, Head of Coaching for the WAFC), I'd rather give him more time to have an impact as I truly do believe he'll become a valuable asset on our coaching panel. He's the type where if things go well, we could see him as a senior coach in the AFL later down the track.

Spangher I genuinely do not understand. Next to no coaching experience, minimal forward line experience, and he gets a gig as the forward coach for last year's grand finalist?

Hansen is still one that annoys me. He obviously caught us off guard with his departure since he accepted a promotion shortly before leaving. Dick move doing that without warning when we already knew we were losing King, but ultimately this happens, and he's got to do what's best for his career (especially since Bevo effectively did this to the Saints before joining us). Losing Hansen and replacing him with Spangher is like losing Dustin Martin from your midfield and replacing him with Mitch Honeychurch
 

_Mike_

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Hansen is still one that annoys me. He obviously caught us off guard with his departure since he accepted a promotion shortly before leaving. Dick move doing that without warning when we already knew we were losing King, but ultimately this happens, and he's got to do what's best for his career (especially since Bevo effectively did this to the Saints before joining us). Losing Hansen and replacing him with Spangher is like losing Dustin Martin from your midfield and replacing him with Mitch Honeychurch

Hansen put an ultimatum on the club in 2016, promote me to assistant or I leave. When that happened it upset a few of the existing assistant coaches, and changes happened after that. I would have preferred to have the club shown him where the door was and leave the structure as it was at the time.
 

Dogs_r_barking

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In the 1990s, Melbourne's population was still just a bit over 3 mil. ALP Bracks tried to reconcile and reorganise local government. Corruption wnet unchecked . Bracks' [Kennett's] efforts were stymied by the "tomato left". Current Defamation laws oblige me to be cautious but members of the tomato left included a former Member of Parliament who had a good arm. Despite my intimate friendship with Kennett, derived from that now famous CBD encounter in the CBD last year, I can't support your "fire sale" allegation. For all its ideological downside, plenty of privatisatiosn worked well for Victoria. 30 odd years on, though, the prospect of putting power infrastructure on the open market is a real issue.
I can never understand the “sell the assets to pay off debt”. What happens when the debt still mounts up and all the assets are sold ,so there is no income stream? Royal Commissions into the corrupt delivery of services are expensive, I.e. Aged Care. Also is running a State economy the same as a business or a household.
 

_Mike_

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Webb was really good in his time in the WAFL (won a flag as senior coach, was previously an assistant at Freo, Head of Coaching for the WAFC), I'd rather give him more time to have an impact as I truly do believe he'll become a valuable asset on our coaching panel. He's the type where if things go well, we could see him as a senior coach in the AFL later down the track.

Fair point on Webb, the clearances havent been the real issue this year
 

D Mitchell

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I think we need to look beyond game day and look at structure and coaching. We have Spangher coaching the forwards (FMD) and Webb coaching the mids/stoppages. These two replaced Hansen and King who moved at the end of last season.

Replace Spangher with someone who's coached and played forward, same as Webb (for mids/stoppages)
Terry Wallace, the genius of the Essendon balloon buster. Rocket, no backside left unburned. Neither delivered beyond Prelims. Rohde then McCartney are reminders of how hard it is to coach our Club. If master coach (every team he's ever coached wins Premierships) Bev reckons Spangher can teach our forwards, that's good enough for me.
 

_Mike_

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Why not, Mike? Bad economics or national security issue? I'm interested in the different perspectives on this.

Bit of both, essential services are underpinned by critical infrastructure and having our power, for example, controlled by a foreign entity not only compromises the delivery model by funneling profits offshore, it also poses a security risk during heightened hostilities between nations.

With the sale of the SEC back in the early 90's sweet * all has gone into modernising power generation in nearly 30 years.
 

_Mike_

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that's good enough for me.

We've had repeated examples of players spoiling either Naughton or Bont (when resting forward) and having the ball turned over out of the attacking 50. our current forwards are struggling to mark the ball and conversion has been abysmal in a number of games
 

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D Mitchell

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We've had repeated examples of players spoiling either Naughton or Bont (when resting forward) and having the ball turned over out of the attacking 50. our current forwards are struggling to mark the ball and conversion has been abysmal in a number of games
Bev and the Match Committee finally dropped Ugle-Hagan. Game after game, he clearly paid no attention to game plan or instructions. As soon as he's dropped, 10 goalscorers slip into action and we win. Applaud Spanghar's patience.
 

Some Idiot

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Webb was really good in his time in the WAFL (won a flag as senior coach, was previously an assistant at Freo, Head of Coaching for the WAFC), I'd rather give him more time to have an impact as I truly do believe he'll become a valuable asset on our coaching panel. He's the type where if things go well, we could see him as a senior coach in the AFL later down the track.

Spangher I genuinely do not understand. Next to no coaching experience, minimal forward line experience, and he gets a gig as the forward coach for last year's grand finalist?

Hansen is still one that annoys me. He obviously caught us off guard with his departure since he accepted a promotion shortly before leaving. Dick move doing that without warning when we already knew we were losing King, but ultimately this happens, and he's got to do what's best for his career (especially since Bevo effectively did this to the Saints before joining us). Losing Hansen and replacing him with Spangher is like losing Dustin Martin from your midfield and replacing him with Mitch Honeychurch
Is it worth noting that a lot of people were questioning Ash Hansen's credentials and lack of coaching experience when we were struggling with scoring despite having a competitive midfield under McCartney? Spangher's been around all of 5 minutes. I have no idea if he's any good but it would seem foolish to write him off without giving him a chance. Teams have to blood rookie assistants at some point.
 

Virgin Dog

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Is it worth noting that a lot of people were questioning Ash Hansen's credentials and lack of coaching experience when we were struggling with scoring despite having a competitive midfield under McCartney? Spangher's been around all of 5 minutes. I have no idea if he's any good but it would seem foolish to write him off without giving him a chance. Teams have to blood rookie assistants at some point.
Yeah realistically the average fan would have no idea of the quality of coaches. Me questioning Spangher is me saying I genuinely don't understand it, rather than believing for sure that he's awful. I just don't get how he got the job with seemingly no credentials, but maybe there's something we're not privy to
 

_Mike_

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Bev and the Match Committee finally dropped Ugle-Hagan. Game after game, he clearly paid no attention to game plan or instructions. As soon as he's dropped, 10 goalscorers slip into action and we win.

Ugle-Hagan is 1 player in the equation, his dropping on form isnt the sole reason underpinning the argument that the forward line is dysfunctional.
 

footscray1973

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Slightly off topic but related to why we need to get things right now,IMO, is that we cannot rely on this golden run of father-sons to go on forever. I hope it does but the law of averages would dictate that we will get a lesser share of successes sometime.
Drs Landsberger and Zimmerman have been injecting our players for their entire tenure with a special concoction that is guaranteed to generate decent footballers in the form of male off-spring.

On a serious note, I had this discussion with a Saints supporting colleague a few years back. He was bemoaning the fact that most of their gun players of recent decades (Frawley, Lockett, Burke, Loewe) have all (or predominantly) produced daughters (was pre-AFLW). And comparing it to us, where so many father-sons have been worthwhile draftees (not all obviously). And in the other thread on here addressing that specific sausage factory, we will have a pool of father sons for at least some years to come. Maybe it's something in the water at VUWO, maybe it's just luck?

I'm still leaning towards the Landsberger/Zimmerman laboratory in the bowels of VUWO though. :)
 

D Mitchell

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Ugle-Hagan is 1 player in the equation, his dropping on form isnt the sole reason underpinning the argument that the forward line is dysfunctional.
According to, well, some, he hasn't dropped form at all, he's the victim of
(a) bad delivery by the mids (best in the competition);
(b) insufficient time to "align/interface with/relate to/" Naughton
(c) his parents
(d) Spangher.

No wonder the poor bloke can't perform.
 

_Mike_

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Not sold on Spangher as a forwards coach, I'd prefer someone with extensive playing experience as a forward and a proven ability to kick goals & shake off defenders.

The question then is who would be a better option?
 

D Mitchell

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Not sold on Spangher as a forwards coach, I'd prefer someone with extensive playing experience as a forward and a proven ability to kick goals & shake off defenders.

The question then is who would be a better option?
Fair enough but even outside the AFL competition, Bev was a superior coach, he took St Bede's from C grade to Premiers in A Grade and Hawthorn's seconds. He picked Sanghar. Why would you even consider Sangher's opinion above the performance of an over glamorised non performer ?
 

Dogsman16

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Not sold on Spangher as a forwards coach, I'd prefer someone with extensive playing experience as a forward and a proven ability to kick goals & shake off defenders.

The question then is who would be a better option?

Yeah i have massive concerns with this appointment.

Been given arguably the biggest bunch of talented young players in the AFL. Naughton, Jamarra, Darcy and Weightman. What other side has 4 (22 and under) talents all stacked in the same location on the field.

Not sure this guy is the one who should be developing our young forwards.
 

_Mike_

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Fair enough but even outside the AFL competition, Bev was a superior coach, he took St Bede's from C grade to Premiers in A Grade and Hawthorn's seconds. He picked Sanghar. Why would you even consider Sangher's opinion above the performance of an over glamorised non performer ?

Irrelevant points. We’re discussing Spangher’s suitability as the forwards coach
 

D Mitchell

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Irrelevant points. We’re discussing Spangher’s suitability as the forwards coach
very relevant.
Irrelevant points. We’re discussing Spangher’s suitability as the forwards coach
The most difficult task of management is to select the best people, particularly for key roles. None of us know what Spangher's job description precisely is, other than "forward coach". Bev has an outstanding record at achieving success. I'll back his ability to pick a person to perform the role he wants that person to fulfil. His record is the most relevant consideration.
 

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