Cricket Discussion - Part 1

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philreich

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There is just something very wrong with this table. Its been pretty standard for the 40 odd years I have been watching cricket to set highest averages table based on 20 test innings, sometimes 30. Voges will be 2nd to the Don for another 30 or 40 years, greater than Pollock, Headley, Sutcliffe where it might have taken 8 years of test cricket to rack up 40 test innings. Voges wont play again for Australia.


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html

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Here's a more realistic statistic - Smith is the first player in Test history to have played 90 Test innings, and average 60 or more. It's a clear indication of the man's greatness.
 

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Here's a more realistic statistic - Smith is the first player in Test history to have played 90 Test innings, and average 60 or more. It's a clear indication of the man's greatness.
As great as his stats are at the moment I cant see him maintaining it over his career say when he has double his current runs in the 9,000 to 10,000 range.

Viv took 71 innings ( only behind Bradman 48 and Suttcliffe 68) to get to 4,000 runs in 1982 and he lost 2 of his best years to Packer cricket, then old man time and the captaincy pressures got to him and his average dropped from 60 to 50 in the 2nd half of his career ie he was averaging 40 in the second half of his career. Smith is equal 12th with 80 innings to get to 4,000 and may match Viv's 95 to get 5,000.

Ponting went thru a massive purple patch. He got to 4,000 in his 96th innings at an average of 49 and his average peaked at 59.99 179th innings when he had scored 9,239 runs. But he batted 108 times more ie 287 innings all up and ended up with an average of 51.85, and for a long time either side of his peak he was called the best Oz batsman after Bradman. Smith I don't reckon has the technique to keep up his average over the next 7 years or so.
 
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philreich

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As great as his stats are at the moment I cant see him maintaining it over his career say when he has double his current runs in the 9,000 to 10,000 range.

Viv took 71 innings ( only behind Bradman 48 and Suttcliffe 68) to get to 4,000 runs in 1982 and he lost 2 of his best years to Packer cricket, then old man time and the captaincy pressures got to him and his average dropped from 60 to 50 in the 2nd half of his career ie he was averaging 40 in the second half of his career. Smith is equal 10th with 80 innings to get to 4,000 and may match Viv's 95 to get 5,000.

Ponting went thru a massive purple patch. He got to 4,000 in his 96th innings at an average of 49 and his average peaked at 59.99 179th innings when he had scored 9,239 runs. But he batted more 108 times ie 287 innings all up and ended up with an average of 51.85, and for a long time either side of his peak he was called the best Oz batsman after Bradman. Smith I don't reckon has the technique to keep up his average over the next 7 years or so.
He'll probably struggle in India, like everyone else. And the Duke ball in England could be a problem. But he's 27 years old, and at the peak of his powers He's just completed 1000 runs in a calendar year for the 3rd year in a row, and he's likely to do it again in 2017.
 
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I reckon that 6 Lynn has hit off Tait, over the roof of the Gabba is the biggest 6 I have seen in Oz.. So big the cameramen lost the ball. Measured at 125m.

Gayle smacked a huge 6 in England in the T20 World Cup in 2009 out of the ground which wasn't as big as the Gabba and the roof wasnt as high but it bounced way down on the road and the camera caught it bouncing.
 
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Look up Ponting's record again. Ponting entered his 107th test having batted 177 times 25 not not outs 9048 runs at 59.92 He scored his 9,000th run in his 177th innings. He hit 142 in the first innings and once he hit 72 his average got to 60 and at the end of the innings was 60.06. He made 49 in the 2nd innings and finished the test with 9,239 runs at 59.99. If he had hit 1 more run he would have finished that test with an average of 60.00

Ponting in his 61st Test scored 154 in his only innings it was his 96th innings went from 3,973 runs to 4,127 runs for 12 not outs and his average was 49.13 He was equal 60th fastest to 4,000 test runs. So in his next 46 tests he scored 5,112 runs in 83 innings 13 not outs at an average 73.03 and he went from 14 100's and 16 50's to 33 100's and 35 50's.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...template=results;type=batting;view=cumulative

For a comparison
Lara got to 4,000 in his 76th and 9,000 in his 177th
Tendulkar 4,000 in his 86th and 9,000 in his 179th
Sangakara 4,000 in his 92nd and 9,000 in his 172nd
Dravid 4,000 in his 84th and 9,000 in his 176th
Jayawardene 4,000 in his 91st and 9,000 in his 178th

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283189.html

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/283179.html
 
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mic59

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Catches really do win matches. The Heat had some relatively easy catches dropped from their batsmen which could have made the difference between 2-0 and 0-2. Whether that pressure would have affected tonight's outcome as well seems unlikely but they still would have had a record in the red.
 
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Last night watching Narine bowl so well for the Renegades it got me thinking, why haven't I taken more notice of him and why hasn't he played more test cricket? So I looked up his stats and discover he is a classic modern day cricketer and is a hired gun making big dollars playing T20 rather than a red ball cricket.

He was born in March 1988 and made his first class debut in Febuary 2009 a month short of his 21st birthday. Now he has severed a 12 month ban because of a suspect bowling action over 2014-15 period, after taking time out to work on it in 2011 and he has been chased again by the ICC in late 2015.

He has played only 13 first class games which include 6 Tests, but he has played 65 ODI's - and 83 list A class one dayers in total, but has played 198 T20 games including 39 for Windies helping them win the 2012 T20 World Cup and was named in the 2016 Windies T20 World Cup squad but pulled out with injury and the ICC hadn't cleared his action yet. They cleared it in late April 2016 just before the IPL started. He has been ranked the world #1 T20 bowler for a couple years. Narine once bowled more overs than runs conceded in a Twenty20 match, with 21 dot balls out of 24 in the Caribbean Premier League in 2014. He hasn't played a first class game since he played a test vs New Zealand December 19-22 in 2013!!


There is probably nobody else in world cricket that has a career summary like this over an almost 8 year period.

upload_2016-12-30_23-46-51.png
 
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A collapse like that makes you wonder if match fixing was involved just like the collapse at the SCG in this test in January 2010 where match fixing has been proved.

http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard.asp?MatchCode=1963
I don't think it was ever proved REH. There were obviously a lot of rumours and the game was mentioned in the aftermath of the Asif/Amir/Salman sting but nothing conclusive ever came out.

Have to say though I haven't seen a more pathetic final day performance than what they threw up yesterday. Utterly listless in the field and with the ball and then to come out and panic like that with the bat was embarrassing. Misbah has been a champ, but his shot yesterday throwing his wicket away to Lyon of all bowlers was just vile.

As bad as it was, Starc's bowling to the remnants of their batting order yesterday was as good a clean up job as I've seen. Sarfraz was looking like he might be able to save the match in spite of everyone, but when Starc came gunning for his stumps there was really bugger all he could have done. I thought Bird bowled pretty nicely too yesterday, clearly justifying again why he is ahead of the rest of the pack in the race for third seamer.

I like what we've done with selection for the final test. Would hope that O'Keefe's inclusion means Lyon's days are numbered (though sadly those couple of wickets may have swayed the selectors minds to stick with the incumbent). Good to see Agar back in the mix too, but I think Cartwright has claims to the spot open at six unless the pitch is too spin oriented. Wade has been horrible with the bat this summer so a promotion to six may be unjustified, but often you see with things like that a little bit of extra responsibility can bring the best out of a player which may be something the selectors bear in mind.

There is just something very wrong with this table. Its been pretty standard for the 40 odd years I have been watching cricket to set highest averages table based on 20 test innings, sometimes 30. Voges will be 2nd to the Don for another 30 or 40 years, greater than Pollock, Headley, Sutcliffe where it might have taken them 8 years of test cricket to rack up 40 test innings. Voges wont play again for Australia.


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282910.html

View attachment 323394
Bit tiresome reading the bashing of Voges. Finally got an opportunity after years of domestic toiling and made it count whenever he got in during a test match. Wasn't the answer to our prayers on the Ashes tour but did enough with a couple of gritty innings and helping mentor Smith to warrant his spot in the side. Cashed in big time against the West Indies which cannot be begrudged and then was integral in what was a surprisingly dominant victory over a pretty good New Zealand side on their home turf.

Handscomb has come in and hit the ground running, so I think Voges has served his purpose to good effect and deserves to look back with pride on the times he went big - a trait in our batsman we often whinge about.
 

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I reckon that 6 Lynn has hit off Tait, over the roof of the Gabba is the biggest 6 I have seen in Oz.. So big the cameramen lost the ball. Measured at 125m.

Gayle smacked a huge 6 in England in the T20 World Cup in 2009 out of the ground which wasn't as big as the Gabba and the roof wasnt as high but it bounced way down on the road and the camera caught it bouncing.
The Lynn 6 off Tait is the biggest I have seen, and before that it was the one by Dan Christian in last year's BBL.

For many years the biggest 6 in Aust cricket was usually accredited to Johnny Martin, who when batting at the river end of Adelaide oval in a shield match in the 1950's, lofted the ball over the roof of the most northern stand (the Mostyn Evans? ), and into the parklands.

Before that end of the ground was roped off, batsmen could run 5 for a ball hit to that corner, so I suspect Martin's tonk, which must have carried something like 30 - 40 metres beyond the pickets, would not have been too far short of Lynn's hit. ;)
 

philreich

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The Lynn 6 off Tait is the biggest I have seen, and before that it was the one by Dan Christian in last year's BBL.

For many years the biggest 6 in Aust cricket was usually accredited to Johnny Martin, who when batting at the river end of Adelaide oval in a shield match in the 1950's, lofted the ball over the roof of the most northern stand (the Mostyn Evans? ), and into the parklands.

Before that end of the ground was roped off, batsmen could run 5 for a ball hit to that corner, so I suspect Martin's tonk, which must have carried something like 30 - 40 metres beyond the pickets, would not have been too far short of Lynn's hit. ;)
It wasn't the longest 6 ever hit, but I once witnessed the sheer brute power of Joel Garner. It was December 1982 against Victoria, on the same day when David Hookes smashed his century off 34 deliveries. I've never seen a ball hit harder before or since.

Soon after Hookesy was out, Big Bird came to the crease. He was given licence to take the long handle, in the interests of chasing down an impossible 272 in 2 hours of batting. Off the back foot, Garner hit a 6 to the longest part of Adelaide Oval. I remember thinking to myself, "How strong is this guy!!!!!"

It was a remarkable afternoon of cricket. I have no doubt that, if Hookes had remained at the crease until stumps, SA would have won that game. I was one of the 837 lucky spectators there to witness it, and it was one of the greatest sporting spectacles of my life.
 

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I reckon that 6 Lynn has hit off Tait, over the roof of the Gabba is the biggest 6 I have seen in Oz.. So big the cameramen lost the ball. Measured at 125m.

Gayle smacked a huge 6 in England in the T20 World Cup in 2009 out of the ground which wasn't as big as the Gabba and the roof wasnt as high but it bounced way down on the road and the camera caught it bouncing.

Mark Waugh once hit "a lofted drive" off Daniel Vettori onto the roof of the Lillee-Marsh stand at the WACA Ground. The six was measured at approx 130m.
 
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Mark Waugh once hit "a lofted drive" off Daniel Vettori onto the roof of the Lillee-Marsh stand at the WACA Ground. The six was measured at approx 130m.
Yes I looked at that video last night. The big difference for me is the height. Lynn's hit went over the top of a lot bigger grandstand. The trouble with trying to make an accurate comparison is Waugh's hit was straight down the ground and landed on the roof on the way down. Lynn's was a cross bat shot over mid wicket over the roof and no one knows where it actually landed to get an accurate measure. Waugh's hit was massive but I reckon this was a bigger hit.

The WACA's dimensions are 149m x 139m fence to fence according to its website. I reckon it was about 170m east to west at one point before they lost AFL footy. So Waugh's hit was 70m to mid pitch and middle of the ground + about 8m to the fence given a cricket pitch is 20m wicket to wicket and he was a step or two out of his crease. I doubt the grandstand roof was another 50m back from the fence, especially if you measure the distance from the fence at the point of the height of the ball when it crossed the fence and not take a tape measure and stick it on the fence and the measure up to the roof.
 
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The Mark Waugh 6


I think my memory of Chris Gayle's 6 at the 2009 T20 World Cup in England has slipped and I have amalgamated the 3 sixes he smashed off Brett Lee in one over. I thought he was batting on the pitch on the other side of the middle pitch at The Oval but looks like it was a few pitches over to the leg side boundary where he smashed it out of the park onto the road. The one he smashes straight down the ground, whilst it doesn't go out of the ground still hits the tower a fair height up and is a bloody big hit. The Oval is a bigger cricket ground in the UK and fence to fence is 146m (E/W) x 141m (N/S)


 
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The Lynn 6 off Tait is the biggest I have seen, and before that it was the one by Dan Christian in last year's BBL.

For many years the biggest 6 in Aust cricket was usually accredited to Johnny Martin, who when batting at the river end of Adelaide oval in a shield match in the 1950's, lofted the ball over the roof of the most northern stand (the Mostyn Evans? ), and into the parklands.

Before that end of the ground was roped off, batsmen could run 5 for a ball hit to that corner, so I suspect Martin's tonk, which must have carried something like 30 - 40 metres beyond the pickets, would not have been too far short of Lynn's hit. ;)
Hard to compare, but Brett Lee's a decade ago at the Gabba was quite similar to Lynn's. They ended up finding it in the nets outside the ground. Camerawork doesn't quite capture it at the time unfortunately.

 
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The Lynn 6 off Tait is the biggest I have seen, and before that it was the one by Dan Christian in last year's BBL.

For many years the biggest 6 in Aust cricket was usually accredited to Johnny Martin, who when batting at the river end of Adelaide oval in a shield match in the 1950's, lofted the ball over the roof of the most northern stand (the Mostyn Evans? ), and into the parklands.

Before that end of the ground was roped off, batsmen could run 5 for a ball hit to that corner, so I suspect Martin's tonk, which must have carried something like 30 - 40 metres beyond the pickets, would not have been too far short of Lynn's hit. ;)
I have heard about that hit but never realy had a clear picture in my mind of how big it could be. I have heard that Sobers whilst playing for SA, think it was 1963-64 season, batting at the northern end put the ball deep into the old John Creswell stand at the south end with a massive straight hit.

One of the biggest back to back - not consecutive balls but hit in the same area was Kieron Pollard in the 2012/13 BBL. The Strikers were struggling to get the win but Pollard in the 3rd last and last over hit 2 massive 6's into the old southern hill area but as it was under construction at the time its hard to say how they compared with other big hits into that area as you didn't have accurate land marks just dirt mounds. I saw Joel Gardner hit it about as long into that area for the Windies think it was in the 1981-82 series.
 
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I don't think it was ever proved REH. There were obviously a lot of rumours and the game was mentioned in the aftermath of the Asif/Amir/Salman sting but nothing conclusive ever came out.
It wasn't proven because it didn't happen in England and the court case was about match fixing that occurred on UK soil. Everything the matching fixing bloke said about what corruption took place in the UK was judged as true by the courts, so its not that much of a stretch to believe what he said about that SCG test result was true.

After watching the Paki's bat so well on a lot friendlier bowling wicket up at the Gabba as compared to the capitulation at the MCG and hearing the odds got out to 30-1 for an Oz win, its hard not to cast a cynical, let alone skeptical eye over what happened. The Aussies weren't bowling hand grenades on a diabolical pitch.

Bit tiresome reading the bashing of Voges. Finally got an opportunity after years of domestic toiling and made it count whenever he got in during a test match..
I wasn't bashing Voges just saying it doesn't look right that the history books will have him 2nd to Bradman. He wasn't that good, but he took his chances when he finally got them, several years later than he should have. Good luck to him that he filled his boots when he played poor sides, but his last 5 tests, the ones Oz lost all of them, he batted 10 times and made 148 runs is indicative that he truly isn't 2nd to Bradman and up there with the other greats.
 
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It wasn't proven because it didn't happen in England and the court case was about match fixing that occurred on UK soil. Everything the matching fixing bloke said about what corruption took place in the UK was judged as true by the courts, so its not that much of a stretch to believe what he said about that SCG test result was true.

After watching the Paki's bat so well on a lot friendlier bowling wicket up at the Gabba as compared to the capitulation at the MCG and hearing the odds got out to 30-1 for an Oz win, its hard not to cast a cynical, let alone skeptical eye over what happened. The Aussies weren't bowling hand grenades on a diabolical pitch.
I guess we're just differing on the technicalities, there definitely was something suss about that match but perhaps I'm too naive/PC to say fixing was conclusively proven to have taken place. What was proven over in England was only to do with spot-fixing which is a different beast IMO.

Have you ever had the chance to read Ed Hawkins' book? It's a bit depressing but well worth it.

upload_2016-12-31_12-24-48.jpeg

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/652915.html

I wasn't bashing Voges just saying it doesn't look right that the history books will have him 2nd to Bradman. He wasn't that good, but he took his chances when he finally got them, several years later than he should have. Good luck to him that he filled his boots when he played poor sides, but his last 5 tests, the ones Oz lost all of them, he batted 10 times and made 148 runs is indicative that he truly isn't 2nd to Bradman and up there with the other greats.
Fair enough too. I do get a bit defensive due to the over the top bullshit written about him over on the cricket board. At the end of the day though, he's certainly done enough to ensure that he'll be remembered for statistical reasons a long way into the future.
 
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Geez that bloke Andrews who came in at 6 down looked like a number 10 or 11 in any grade of cricket, he looked totally overwhelmed, so what hope the blokes batting after him. o_O
 
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