Cricket Discussion - Part 2

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Mar 1, 2014
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Gutsy effort by Stokes, it has got to be right up there as one of the best innings to win a test in the history of the game.

Not sure about Langer as coach of Oz though, his non use of Starc in the 3 tests so far has been kern levels of baffling.
 
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They cannot reinstate Steve Smith as Captain. Smith still has time to serve on CA's ludicrous 'No Captaincy for you' ban.

Tim Paine is a competent enough keeper and he is obviously a good bloke but he isn't making runs and his judgement has been suspect. He has stuffed up the video review on several occasions and his decision to put England in at Lords was mind numbing. I think Australia would benefit from a new Captain and a keeper who can make runs but that will not happen mid tour. I just hope they do not decide to hand the gloves back to Matthew Wade.

I am not sure what everyone else sees in Cameron Bancroft that I cannot see. Bancroft has played ten Tests for only 446 runs at 26.24 and is yet to hit a Test century. Hardly a 'must play' record. The selectors may as well stick with Marcus Harris who has a slightly better batting average, for the Fourth Test at least. Steve Smith has to come back in so maybe the batting order gets a shake to fit him in.

Australia have almost two weeks before the next Test and maybe it is time to give Mitchell Starc a crack at it. Starc has the X factor about his bowling and is capable of lethal spells in which he claims multiple wickets .
 
I love footy but for sustained tension, cricket is unparalleled!
Exactly what I said to my self about 10 minutes after the game ended.

Nothing beats Test Cricket for the tension of a tight 5 day test when it comes down to the wire in the final session to win, lose or draw a game or a series. The closest is a penalty shoot to win a world cup or knock out final of soccer, hockey etc.
 

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Smith MUST be made captain again (or someone else) & paine OUT of the team forever, Carey to be the new keeper/batsmen. Starc needs to come in at Patto’s expense.

If we again lose the Ashes, then I can’t see us ever winning it or retaining it over there again, can’t understand why that’s the case but like the Power’s last two seasons it ain’t good enough!!!
 
If we again lose the Ashes, then I can’t see us ever winning it or retaining it over there again, can’t understand why that’s the case but like the Power’s last two seasons it ain’t good enough!!!
It feels a lot like the 1 run loss to to the West Indies in the 4th Adelaide in the 1992-93. We were 1-0 up, should have been 2-0 if a bit smarter play had occurred in an earlier test, lost the test, went to the final test in Perth mentally shot, and got beaten by an Innings after Ambrose took 7 for bugger all, when we lost our last 6 or 7 wickets for 20 or 30 runs and made about 120 runs.

Border finished his career never beating the Windies in a test series, knew he would retire before we play them again, and it felt like we never would beat them. But 3 years later finally did with a few new players and have never lost a series since.

We will beat the poms in Oz. But lose this series and its 5 in a row in England.
 
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It feels a lot like the 1 run loss to to the West Indies in the 4th Adelaide in the 1992-93. We were 1-0 up, should have been 2-0 if a bit smarter play had occurred in an earlier test, lost the test, went to the final test in Perth mentally shot, and got beaten by an Innings after Ambrose took 7 for bugger all, when we lost our last 6 or 7 wickets for 20 or 30 runs and made about 120 runs.

Border finished his career never beating the Windies in a test series, knew he would retire before we play them again, and it felt like we never would beat them. But 3 years later finally did with a few new players and have never lost a series since.

We will beat the poms in Oz. But lose this series and its 5 in a row in England.


Is that when Dean Jones complained about Curtley's sweat band?

EDIT: No it wasn't - Jones played his last test the year before that.
 
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Willsy10

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There for the taking, i'm gutted and feel we won't win the series now.

Won't get another golden opportunity like that to claim the series.

Very disappointing.

Paine has had a shocker as captain.

Great innings by Stokes but when will England's luck run out, it's ridiculous the amount of decisions or mistakes that have gone their way this whole summer starting with the world cup.
 
Is that when Dean Jones complained about Curtley's sweat band?

EDIT: No it wasn't - Jones played his last test the year before that.
Jones complained in a ODI game re white ball on white sweat band saying he couldn't see the ball, that summer.

Jones never played a test in that series.

Most bizarre end to a test career I have ever seen. Australia went to Sri Lanka for a 3 test match series before the Windies and it ended 5-6 weeks before the first test in Brisbane. Jones had the best average and 2nd most runs of the Oz batsmen in Sri Lanka. Warne and Matthews bowled Oz to victory by 15 or 16 runs after Sri Lanka Chasing 160ish capitilated and lost last 6 or 7 wickets for 25-30 runs then next 2 were tame draws. Think it was the first Test series win on the sub continent by an Oz team since 1969-70.

Mark Waugh made 4 x 0's in the first 2 tests and if he hit another one, they were going to call him Olympic as he would have five 0's to make the Olympic rings.

The first test was at the Gabba. Jones had struggled a bit in the two shield matches he played but Damien Martyn dominated in the 3 or 4 he played. They picked Martyn to debut instead of Jones for the Brisbane test as they thought Jones was susceptible to the extra bounce at the Gabba and is a nervous starter. Also it was that series they decided they would bat Steve Waugh at 3. And Waugh didn't pay for his poor form in Sri Lanka as the selectors loved him and was picked all series. Martyn played, he did well, made 36 IIRC in his first innings, Oz almost won, had Windes 8/120ish but ran out of time, partly due to traditional Brisbane rain in a test and all up around half a day was lost.

Then we play about 8 ODI's before the boxing day test. Jones does the protest on Ambrose's sweat band, struggles a bit in the ODI's, doesn't play any shield cricket, Martyn kept his spot for boxing day test and Dean Jones never plays test cricket for Australia again, but plays ODI's for almost another 18 months.

25+ years later I'm still a bit pissed off his test career ended that way.
 
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Jones complained in a ODI game re white ball on white sweat band saying he couldn't see the ball, that summer.

Jones never played a test in that series.

Most bizarre end to a test career I have ever seen. Australia went to Sri Lanka for a 3 test match series before the Windies and it ended 5-6 weeks before the first test in Brisbane. Jones had the best average and 2nd most runs of the Oz batsmen in Sri Lanka. Warne and Matthews bowled Oz to victory by 15 or 16 runs after Sri Lanka Chasing 160ish capitilated and lost last 6 or 7 wickets for 25-30 runs then next 2 were tame draws. Think it was the first Test series win on the sub continent by an Oz team since 1969-70.

Mark Waugh made 4 x 0's in the first 2 tests and if he hit another one, they were going to call him Olympic as he would have five 0's to make the Olympic rings.

The first test was at the Gabba. Jones had struggled a bit in the two shield matches he played but Damien Martyn dominated in the 3 or 4 he played. They picked Martyn to debut instead of Jones for the Brisbane test as they thought Jones was susceptible to the extra bounce at the Gabba and is a nervous starter. Also it was that series they decided they would bat Steve Waugh at 3. And Waugh didn't pay for his poor form in Sri Lanka as the selectors loved him and was picked all series. Martyn played, he did well, made 36 IIRC in his first innings, Oz almost won, had Windes 8/120ish but ran out of time, partly due to traditional Brisbane rain in a test and all up around half a day was lost.

Then we play about 8 ODI's before the boxing day test. Jones does the protest on Ambrose's sweat band, struggles a bit in the ODI's, doesn't play any shield cricket, Martyn kept his spot for boxing day test and Dean Jones never plays test cricket for Australia again, but plays ODI's for almost another 18 months.

25+ years later I'm still a bit pi**ed off his test career ended that way.
If I recall correctly, Jones was rather outspoken, and the selectors didn't exactly appreciate his honesty - which may go some of the way to explaining why he didn't get selected.
 

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Come on, we will win again. we need our selections right however.

Paine definitely out for Carey, or Wade even as a keeper batsman.

Rotation of the bowlers is fine. Starc can be unreliable also. Our second innings cost us, we threw some wickets away on a flattening pitch, another 100 runs and it's a win. Stokes batted bloody well too, so let's not allow that to get away. 3 from 81 disciplined batting. Lyon should have done more also
 
What a heartstopping climax! An amazing innings by Stokes and the drama of the last over was breathtaking. Missed run out, plumb lbw not given, wasted reviews. Fantastic cricket over every day with an unbelievable finish.

I was a bit over the pontificating of Australian experts expecting a whitewash of England. Our side has one world class bat and he was out injured.

Stokes reminded me of Botham's heroics in 1981. Which then made me feel old because that was 38 years ago :eek:

Wish we could produce an allrounder of that quality.
 
Stokes makes Botham look like a park cricketer - he's an absolute colossus.

Wonderful innings by Stokes but Botham looking like a park cricketer, I don't think so.

In the Headingly test in 1981 Australia made 9/401 declared where Botham toiled through 39 overs for 6/95. Australia bowled out England for 174, enforced the follow on and had them 7/135 in the second innings. Botham stepped up and made 149no off 148 balls and Bob Willis knocked us over for 111 to win the match. The Australian pace attack featured Dennis Lillee, Terry Alderman and Geoff Lawson.

In the 4th test with Australia chasing 151 for victory, Botham took 5/11 off 14 overs to knock us over for 121.

In the 5th test with England 5/104 in the second innings, he peeled 118 off 102 balls to push the England total out of Australia's reach.

He was the stuff of Australian nightmares in that series.
 
In 1981, Botham went the slog because he knew he had nothing to lose, the Poms were 5/100ish when he came in and were still 130 behind Oz after following on, and 7/130ish when Dilley came in still 100 behind. He decided lets hit the ball around and see what we can do, maybe make them bat again. It helped that Dilley made a 50 and Chris Old made 25 or 30 odd.

Stokes was extremely patient for most of his innings and that's why I put his stats up on the previous page to show his progression.

Stokes didn't make Botham look like a park cricketer. He performed the greatest 10th wicket innings partnership effort and power hitting you will ever see in test cricket to win the match. For me its up there with Brian Lara's 153 n.o. in Barbados where the Windies also beat the Aussies by 1 wicket, and Lara is the bloke I would want to bat for me to win me a test if my life depending on it. Lara is the best test batsman I have seen, so I rank these 2 innings together.
 

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If I recall correctly, Jones was rather outspoken, and the selectors didn't exactly appreciate his honesty - which may go some of the way to explaining why he didn't get selected.

Yes, In 1993 Deano made several comments on Melbourne radio criticising the Australian selectors for overlooking him. That pretty well ensured his career had ended. Deano hasn't changed much over the years and in January this year Deano was reported as saying,

“The mixed messages the national selectors panel are sending out has left players, media and fans scratching their heads. Well, talk me through how Marnus Labuschagne and Jhye Richardson got selected before others?”

I suspect that Deano may have changed his mind on some aspects of that one. I like ex champs like Deano and Ian Chappell weighing in from time to time. If nothing else they give some substance to the questions the plebs like us have.

The only criticsm I have of Dean Jones is that like the AFL Media his Victorian parochialism tends to cloud his arguments at times. As an example Deano was dead set on having Will Pucovski in the Australian team ahead of Kurtis Patterson For the Gabba Test against Sri Lanka. Jones cited some sort of hierarchical batting order based on who was or wasn't in the Australian Test squad at the time. Pucovski is a talent for sure but he has only been around for five minutes and surely no one can question Patterson's efforts once selected? That might be another one that Deano needs to rethink.

 
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Mar 10, 2008
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I doubt there would've been much difference if Smith was captain. He was a terrible, unimaginative captain.
Yea more just commenting on the choke job by Paine, who isn’t good enough to hold a spot in the team anyway.

It felt like we did nothing to keep Leach on strike. Stokes faced the first 4-5 balls each over, then made an easy single and Leach only had to face one ball.

The last review was pure desperation and cost us the game. The bowler knew it wasn’t out but Paine called for a review anyway. Really poor.
 
You bring the field in after the 4th ball (sometimes 3rd), not 5th.

It was a repeat of the Bob Willis type captaincy in 1982-83 MCG test that let Thomo and Border make 60 odd runs. Lucky they had Botham to get the win by 2 runs.
 

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Knew we'd lose that after watching the 1st session. Quicks were bowling absolute pies to Stokes and Bairstow at the start.

then saw the review we went for... WTF was Paine thinking, when you think the one he did when he got out was bad in the 2nd dig!.
then 2 runs left Wilson the useless plonker couldn't give a plumb LBW out, yikes.. He should booted for the rest of the series and never be allowed to be given a VISA in this country!.

anyway, changes.

obvious one should Smith in Paine and Wade takes the gloves with S Smith placed as acting captain for the last 2 tests. Deserves a 2nd chance IMO and he's our best player by mile. Khawaja out for Carey
Starc for Pattinson

1. Warner
2. Harris
3. Smith (a/c)
4. Labushagne
5. Head
6. Carey
7. Wade (w/k)
8. Starc
9. Cummins
10. Lyon
11. Hazelwood
 
Wonderful innings by Stokes but Botham looking like a park cricketer, I don't think so.

In the Headingly test in 1981 Australia made 9/401 declared where Botham toiled through 39 overs for 6/95. Australia bowled out England for 174, enforced the follow on and had them 7/135 in the second innings. Botham stepped up and made 149no off 148 balls and Bob Willis knocked us over for 111 to win the match. The Australian pace attack featured Dennis Lillee, Terry Alderman and Geoff Lawson.

In the 4th test with Australia chasing 151 for victory, Botham took 5/11 off 14 overs to knock us over for 121.

In the 5th test with England 5/104 in the second innings, he peeled 118 off 102 balls to push the England total out of Australia's reach.

He was the stuff of Australian nightmares in that series.
Yeah my comment was made in the heat of the moment, minutes after we lost. But I still maintain that Stokes may finish his career ahead of Botham, in terms of who will be remembered as the better all rounder. The guy doesn't seem to know what pressure is, and the outrageous nature of his shots need to be seen to be believed. I bloody well wish he was on our side!!!
 
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Wonderful innings by Stokes but Botham looking like a park cricketer, I don't think so.

In the Headingly test in 1981 Australia made 9/401 declared where Botham toiled through 39 overs for 6/95. Australia bowled out England for 174, enforced the follow on and had them 7/135 in the second innings. Botham stepped up and made 149no off 148 balls and Bob Willis knocked us over for 111 to win the match. The Australian pace attack featured Dennis Lillee, Terry Alderman and Geoff Lawson.

In the 4th test with Australia chasing 151 for victory, Botham took 5/11 off 14 overs to knock us over for 121.

In the 5th test with England 5/104 in the second innings, he peeled 118 off 102 balls to push the England total out of Australia's reach.

He was the stuff of Australian nightmares in that series.


All after being sacked as the captain. Bring back Travis Brearley as captain and Ollie and Tom can be co-John Cahill Medallists!
 
Yeah my comment was made in the heat of the moment, minutes after we lost. But I still maintain that Stokes may finish his career ahead of Botham, in terms of who will be remembered as the better all rounder. The guy doesn't seem to know what pressure is, and the outrageous nature of his shots need to be seen to be believed. I bloody well wish he was on our side!!!
Stokes will end up a better batter but not as good a bowler, I think. Botham's first 50 or 60 tests he was a fantastic bowler, but as he got injured - he hurt his back, put on more weight and just got older his bowling dropped away.

Botham started his career as a bowling all rounder but finished more as a batting all rounder. Stokes is a batting allrounder.

Stokes record so far in Tets in ODI's - batting
FormatMatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR100504s6sCtSt
Tests551014347925835.86591358.8381843459550
ODIs9581152682102*40.63285593.9432021775450

Bowling
FormatMatInnsBallsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR4w5w10
Tests5595783443501356/228/16132.223.3358.0540
ODIs958029122920705/615/6141.716.0141.6110


Botham's career figure Batting
FormatMatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR100504s6sCtSt
Tests1021616520020833.54856560.711422621671200
ODIs1161061521137923.21267179.10919744360

Bowling
FormatMatInnsBallsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR4w5w10
Tests10216821815108783836/3413/10628.402.9956.917274
ODIs116115627141391454/314/3128.543.9643.2300


After 55 tests Botham's figure were
Batting. 3,008 runs at 37.14 - didn't realise his average and test conversion to 100 was better at this stage of his career compared to Stokes.
MatInnsNORunsHSAveBFSR10050
55843300820837.13495760.681112

Bowling 251 wickets at 23.69 - that's 116 more test match wickets and average 9 runs less per wicket.
MatInnsBallsRunsWktsBBIBBMAveEconSR5W/In10W/Mtch
5595130435945251Aug-3413/10623.682.7351.9204
 
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Botham hurting his back breaking beds in Jamaica in all night sessions with calypso beauty queens if you believe The Sun :D!

Ben Stokes has a long way to go to match the swashbuckling off-field career of Sir Ian Botham. Although Stokes did knock out a couple of blokes outside a pub.
 
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Botham hurting his back breaking beds in Jamaica in all night sessions with calypso beauty queens if you believe The Sun !

tumblr_mjepc4KKZW1rx4ivwo1_400.gif
 
Botham hurting his back breaking beds in Jamaica in all night sessions with calypso beauty queens if you believe The Sun :D!

Ben Stokes has a long way to go to match the swashbuckling off-field career of Sir Ian Botham. Although Stokes did knock out a couple of blokes outside a pub.
Beefy did plenty of things off field to hurt his back, (inc above :) ) or at least not help him rehabilitate it, like Dennis Lillee would work on back injury prevention training.
 
Beefy did plenty of things off field to hurt his back, (inc above :) ) or at least not help him rehabilitate it, like Dennis Lillee would work on back injury prevention training.

There were a few Port footballers over the years who should have been at Rick Montiadis's rooms but were across the road at the Alberton Hotel. ;)
 

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