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Roosurgence

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A little bit of both.

But it doesn’t change my opinion that Lyon is overrated.

Don’t get me wrong the guy is super consistent and doesn’t bowl many bad balls, but my criticism is that he has little variety and once the batsman is comfortable against him, he has no tricks up his sleeve.

I would love to see him bowl the wrongun more often, the one that straightens, a skidder etc.

It’s like Lyon is on repeat and the batsman can get easily settled against him. He doesn’t make a batsman think, what’s coming next, they know.
 

kangatime

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^ Well said. Lack of variety has always been my knock on Lyon. I've come around to the view that he is a very good, even great off-spin bowler, but he's still nowhere near the greatest leg-spin bowler.
He’s closer to the greatest leg spin bowler we’ve had than any other leg spin bower we’ve ever had!

I just don’t understand how you can overate the 4th highest test wicket taker we’ve ever had.
 

kangatime

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A little bit of both.

But it doesn’t change my opinion that Lyon is overrated.

Don’t get me wrong the guy is super consistent and doesn’t bowl many bad balls, but my criticism is that he has little variety and once the batsman is comfortable against him, he has no tricks up his sleeve.

I would love to see him bowl the wrongun more often, the one that straightens, a skidder etc.

It’s like Lyon is on repeat and the batsman can get easily settled against him. He doesn’t make a batsman think, what’s coming next, they know.
Lyon would have benefited greatly if Stark and/or Hazelwood had of pitched in a little. The Indian spinners have had their pace attack putting on pressure.

Lyons strength is his subtlety.
 

Roosurgence

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I wouldn’t call it subtle at all. Lyon seems more intent on not being scored off than trying to get wickets.

Don’t get me wrong technically he is great, I just feel he doesn’t think the batsman out. He seems to operate on a theory that if he can land the call in the right spot enough they will make a mistake. A good theory against poor players of spin, but not very effective against a batting line up that is used to facing quality spin.

I just feel to be that great bowler he needs to learn some new tricks and make the batsman think, not prey purely on mistakes.
 

Zondor

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He’s closer to the greatest leg spin bowler we’ve had than any other leg spin bower we’ve ever had!

I just don’t understand how you can overate the 4th highest test wicket taker we’ve ever had.
I Don't Agree. Compare his average to the rest of the Great Bowlers we have had. Sure he ain't terrible but he ain't Great either. I'd take Richie and Tiger over Lyon. :stern look

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...st_wickets_career.html?class=1;id=2;type=team
 

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Marstermind

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Indian spinners showing just how overrated Nathan Lyon is.
I think Lyon was great in the first two Tests. But I reckon by the time Australia took the third new ball and Starc bowled one poop over, Cummins then bowled another one and then Lyon found himself back on to bowl with a 5-over ball in his 57th over of the innings, he'd decided he couldn't give two dollops of excrement about this match anymore. He bagged out the other bowlers in an interview, just turned to the top of his mark after Khawaja dropped a catch, didn't celebrate a wicket at all. His not reviewing his dismissal when batting and the lack of support he got from Starc at the time was telling.

Unfortunately, he's felt he's done his part towards a losing cause, and he's had enough. I'd get him out of the ODI squad although I reckon he's good enough to be there. His mind and body needs a break.
 
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Jabba the Trump

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^ Well said. Lack of variety has always been my knock on Lyon. I've come around to the view that he is a very good, even great off-spin bowler, but he's still nowhere near the greatest leg-spin bowler.
I see what you did there, although I think your subtle variation of flight and bounce may have bamboozled poor old Roosurgence who is clearly not a very good player of "spin".
 

pupstar

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I wouldn’t call it subtle at all. Lyon seems more intent on not being scored off than trying to get wickets.

Don’t get me wrong technically he is great, I just feel he doesn’t think the batsman out. He seems to operate on a theory that if he can land the call in the right spot enough they will make a mistake. A good theory against poor players of spin, but not very effective against a batting line up that is used to facing quality spin.

I just feel to be that g reat b owler he needs to learn some new tricks and make the batsman think, not prey purely on mistakes.
I think you will find over his career he has taken more wickets against India had more 5 wicket hauls and his best ever match figures against India 8-50 not to shabby.
 

kangaspurs

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So, it looks like Pucovski will be handed a debut against Sri Lanka.

A brave, exciting, possibly foolish call from the selectors.
 

Rockstar6

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Squad for SL Test Series:
T.Paine (c), J.Hazelwood (vc), J.Burns, P.Cummins, M.Harris, T.Head, U.Khawaja, M.Labuschagne, N.Lyon, W.Pucovski, M.Renshaw, M.Starc & P.Siddle.

My 1st test team prediction:
1. M.Harris
2. M.Renshaw
3. U.Khawaja
4. J.Burns
5. W.Pucovski
6. T.Head
7. T.Paine (c)
8. P.Cummins
9. M.Starc
10. N. Lyon
11. J.Hazelwood (vc)

Siddle and Labuschagne miss out. Burns and Pucovski could swap batting spots.
 

toepoker

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I know very little about Pucovski but good luck to him, his surname isn't Marsh so I won't be feeling the impending sense of doom as he walks out to bat.
Would love to know what Glenn Maxwell has done wrong though.
As for Lyon, he's not unlike our quicks - as soon as the wicket isn't bouncing he isn't nearly as effective.
 

SpiderBurton22

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Squad for SL Test Series:
T.Paine (c), J.Hazelwood (vc), J.Burns, P.Cummins, M.Harris, T.Head, U.Khawaja, M.Labuschagne, N.Lyon, W.Pucovski, M.Renshaw, M.Starc & P.Siddle.

My 1st test team prediction:
1. M.Harris
2. M.Renshaw
3. U.Khawaja
4. J.Burns
5. W.Pucovski
6. T.Head
7. T.Paine (c)
8. P.Cummins
9. M.Starc
10. N. Lyon
11. J.Hazelwood (vc)

Siddle and Labuschagne miss out. Burns and Pucovski could swap batting spots.
That's a better squad. If the selectors had any guts this should have been the squad for the last Test against India.
 
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SpiderBurton22

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I know very little about Pucovski but good luck to him, his surname isn't Marsh so I won't be feeling the impending sense of doom as he walks out to bat.
Would love to know what Glenn Maxwell has done wrong though.
As for Lyon, he's not unlike our quicks - as soon as the wicket isn't bouncing he isn't nearly as effective.
Pucovski is a hugely talented 20 year old Vic who made 250 against W.A last season. Unfortunately for him he keeps getting hit in the head and has had concussion issues. Made another ton earlier this season but then took time off for mental health issues. Came back and played 1 shield game and made a half century in the 2nd innings.
 

kangaspurs

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Pucovski is a hugely talented 20 year old Vic who made 250 against W.A last season. Unfortunately for him he keeps getting hit in the head and has had concussion issues. Made another ton earlier this season but then took time off for mental health issues. Came back and played 1 shield game and made a half century in the 2nd innings.
Have you actually seen much of him, mate? I've seen a lot of people say that he's possibly our biggest talent since the golden generation, and iirc the hype around him has been big since the u19 WC, I think it was, but I've never seen him play, myself.
 

toepoker

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Squad for SL Test Series:
T.Paine (c), J.Hazelwood (vc), J.Burns, P.Cummins, M.Harris, T.Head, U.Khawaja, M.Labuschagne, N.Lyon, W.Pucovski, M.Renshaw, M.Starc & P.Siddle.

My 1st test team prediction:
1. M.Harris
2. M.Renshaw
3. U.Khawaja
4. J.Burns
5. W.Pucovski
6. T.Head
7. T.Paine (c)
8. P.Cummins
9. M.Starc
10. N. Lyon
11. J.Hazelwood (vc)

Siddle and Labuschagne miss out. Burns and Pucovski could swap batting spots.
Looks good. I don't mind Burns but he's always looked more of a 4/5 type than an opener to me.
 

SpiderBurton22

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Have you actually seen much of him, mate? I've seen a lot of people say that he's possibly our biggest talent since the golden generation, and iirc the hype around him has been big since the u19 WC, I think it was, but I've never seen him play, myself.
Like you, haven't seen him play, just followed the Shield scores and news. The hype is huge on him. There has to be doubts on him though due to the head knocks. 3 last year and another 1 this year, but this is the series to blood him against a soft Sri Lankan outfit.
 
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