Opinion Cricket thread

[Marstermind]

For me it should be:

Harris
Warner
Labuschagne
Smith
Wade
Green
Paine
Cummins
Starc (although would consider Pattinson or Neser)
Lyon
Hazelwood

I think Wade deserves another crack in the middle order. Harris did enough to get back in also. I also think Cummins and Hazelwood are somewhat paving over Starc's deficiencies. I'd keep Starc for now, but would be tempted to bring in Pattinson or Neser which would have the added benefit of strengthening our batting.

The whole concept of picking bowlers to strengthen your batting is preposterous. The batting may improve by 20 runs an innings but you are chasing 50 more. The main problem Starc has is that he has to bowl for a day and a half and then has to pad up 3 hours after hopping out of the shower.

Of Australia's top 10 problems with their team, Starc and any of the other bowlers including Lyon comes in at around 58.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Yep, Gary is better looking

Gary and Billy had Christmas meal together with kids.

I couldn't do it........but good on Billy I guess for the children

 

[krakouers]

Damn it I knew people onto me this last decade! ; )

Well i'd rather a bowling non-opener to a batting non-opener is all I meant if cupboard is bare

The cupboard is bare, anything is really a stopgap,
Just a question though, on Renshaw, who told him not to be an opener?
Surely that is a pretty safe position to become as we seem to be lacking them

 

[Themanbun]

The whole concept of picking bowlers to strengthen your batting is preposterous. The batting may improve by 20 runs an innings but you are chasing 50 more.

I really think people are hysterically thinking of the worst possible outcome out of nothing but traditionalism (although I remember when South Africa just used to load up with all rounders and hope not to get bowled out).

People are acting like Pattinson and Neser are bowling part timers. The former has 81 test wickets at ~26. I do not believe for a moment that there's 50 runs difference on average between Starc's bowling and the 4th or 5th best quicks in the country, who also happen to hold the stick pretty competently.

 

[ChoppyGun]

The whole concept of picking bowlers to strengthen your batting is preposterous

Well quote me then.

Nightwatchmen have been used for decades for that exact bloody reason.

 

[Marstermind]

The cupboard is bare, anything is really a stopgap,
Just a question though, on Renshaw, who told him not to be an opener?
Surely that is a pretty safe position to become as we seem to be lacking them

Whatever happened to Kurtis Patterson?

 

[ChoppyGun]

People are acting like Pattinson and Neser are bowling part timers. I do not believe for a moment that there's 50 runs difference on average between Starc's bowling and the 4th or 5th best quicks in the country.

I'm not but they aren't that great either.

I see nothing wrong with our current bowling line up. People are blaming them and it's simply wrong.

Pattinson unlucky with injuries but that's how it is.

 

[krakouers]

Whatever happened to Kurtis Patterson?

On the scorchers list?
He’s what 25 or so? Mid order player? Think he was injured or wasn’t picked for the NSW side, not an opener
I hate the idea of Australia being NSW Team A but Sams maybe? If not Harris

 

[Themanbun]

Whatever happened to Kurtis Patterson?

Fell off a cliff after injury.

 

[ChoppyGun]

The cupboard is bare, anything is really a stopgap,
Just a question though, on Renshaw, who told him not to be an opener?
Surely that is a pretty safe position to become as we seem to be lacking them

Of course a stop gap.

I wasn't meaning Cummins long term.

Just a few Tests until we find our next opener! (my post taken way out of context)

 

[Themanbun]

I'm not but they aren't that great either.

I see nothing wrong with our current bowling line up. People are blaming them and it's simply wrong.

Pattinson unlucky with injuries but that's how it is.

JP 81 test wickets at 26 is pretty good.

Neser well we haven't seen him at the level yet but I rate him.

 

[Themanbun]

Of course a stop gap.

I wasn't meaning Cummins long term.

Just a few Tests until we find our next opener! (my post taken way out of context)

Two or three years ago I would have been all over this suggestion as a temporary stop gap like you say, but Patty has had a lean few years with the bat.

 

[krakouers]

Of course a stop gap.

I wasn't meaning Cummins long term.

Just a few Tests until we find our next opener! (my post taken way out of context)

All good choppy, just think there are other options in the meantime

 

[ChoppyGun]

JP 81 test wickets at 26 is pretty good.

Neser well we haven't seen him at the level yet but I rate him.

Pattinson gets injured too often plus too short. (as I was)

Plus who does he replace?

For mine I think our pace attack is a fantastic mix.

 

[krakouers]

Just FYI:

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Read about Records, / , Sheffield Shield, 2020/21, / , Most runs Cricket Team Records only on ESPNcricinfo.com. Check the Stats & Records of Records, / , Sheffield Shield, 2020/21, / , Most runs Players in ✓ Wicket keeper ✓ Batting ✓ Bowling

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[ChoppyGun]

All good choppy, just think there are other options in the meantime

Yes I agree.

Me.

 

[krakouers]

Yes I agree.

Me.

At this rate, you may get the call

 

[Themanbun]

Pattinson gets injured too often plus too short. (as I was)

Plus who does he replace?

For mine I think our pace attack is a fantastic mix.

Never hate on the short blokes (he's 6'2 or 3 though, Jhye Richardson probably would cry if he read that!)!

Agree injuries are a worry. It was ironically when he got injured that he was holding down number 5 for Dandenong extremely well. Looked better than some of the other Vic boys who came down to the level every now and then.

It's not going to be Cummins that he replaces, so either of Hazelwood or Starc. Starc gives us something different and his figures for the last year or two are much better than I thought they were.

I wouldn't sleep on Neser either, though. As far as I know much more durable than JP and also a very competent bat. Swings the ball both ways and brings good energy.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Two or three years ago I would have been all over this suggestion as a temporary stop gap like you say, but Patty has had a lean few years with the bat.

Lean in Avg not in balls faced. Ball facing is an underrated skill

 

[ChoppyGun]

Lean in Avg not in balls faced. Ball facing is an underrated skill

Pujara likes this.

It's no about runs if the other bloke is scoring.

Need to weather the bowling and people crap on about Bumrah (yes he's good) and India's attack but it's bullshit.

Yadav and Shami are ok but we've faced far better attacks than this lot.

 

[muttley45]

On the way home, I heard Chuck Berry on SEN throw up Renshaw's name as a smoky, i had forgotten all about him, is in the mould of a test opener iirc, but big bash wouldn't suit him that much, probably still only early 20's, has he done anything at shield level lately ?

 

[Themanbun]

On the way home, I heard Chuck Berry on SEN throw up Renshaw's name as a smoky, i had forgotten all about him, is in the mould of a test opener iirc, but big bash wouldn't suit him that much, probably still only early 20's, has he done anything at shield level lately ?

If I recall correctly he was doing alright at county level a couple of years ago. Think he made a good score in the Shield this season as well.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Christ Hayden, Slats, Punter and co had Shoiab, Waqar, Donald and co and co at close to 160 and we still got 500.

This group are way off it technically or mentally.

 

[WesternRoo]

This is a weirdly aggressive post for what was a pretty genuine and sincere conversation from everyone here. But turning towards the points you raised, which are good points but I think did not quite interpret some of my comments as they were intended:

(1) I wasn't having a go at Paine. I stated that a Gilchrist averaging 50+ is a luxury we currently do not have. With Paine averaging around the 30 mark, which is completely normal for a keeper, we start having to have those same conversations that a lot of our opposition have had over the years. I like Paine but I'm not going to pretend he's at the Gilchrist or Sangakkara level. He's a good solid keeper batsman but that puts us squarely with most other test sides of most other eras.

(2) The idea of Starc or Hazelwood making way for a Pattinson in my suggestion is that I feel we are not *significantly* weakening our strongest asset. I love all of our top 5 or so bowlers in this country, but a lot of countries have had to have the conversation about trying to conjure up a bowling all rounder in place of a frontline bowler at no.7-8. This isn't just 'park cricket' mentality. This is a decision that MANY teams have had to contemplate as they've watched their side get ripped through test after test with no replacements seemingly able to step up. I specifically suggested a bowling all rounder at 8, with Green continuing at 6.

(3) I didn't suggest Green replace Starc or Hazelwood. I specifically said earlier that Green has the potential to be a frontline bowler in the future but at this stage having him at 6 is the go. I was referring to bringing in a Pattinson or Neser at the expense of one of our two quicks who are weaker with the bat. Eventually, one day, maybe Green can slot down to 7 (although I feel he'll own 5-6 for his whole career) and we play an extra bat, but given his body issues and the fact he's not there yet with the ball, I'd err away from that for the exact reasons you mention.

(4) I agree we need 4 or 5 top line batsmen. Sadly, I don't think they are there. We keep cycling through our best shield performers and they are found wanting.

At some point, when those batsmen are non existent, we need to find ways to win test matches. Just as plenty of other international sides have done so.

We may need to look at an India with Irfan type workaround scenario if this goes on for much longer. I don't see us having the luxury that we've had before, and I'm suggesting that we may have to consider what is a not uncommon scenario that plenty of international sides have turned to: trying to play that extra bowling all rounder at no.8 if that bowling all rounder is the 4th or 5th best frontline bowler in the country, meaning that the third best slides out. We are lucky with Patto and Neser waiting in the wings, as both could own a spot on their bowling alone if it weren't for our freakishly good pace stocks right now. Hell, JP has a bowling average in the mid 20s at test level.

Sorry, wasn’t trying to be aggressive.

I appreciate the lateral thinking but we are shuffling deck chairs on the titanic until we address the real issue.

Picking a slightly better 8 who is a lesser bowler isn’t going to address this.

 

[ChoppyGun]

Yeah no aggression guys.

Let's talk cricket and respect each other.