Cripps Bontempelli Merrett Kelly - the next big 4?

[carnthedons]

The beauty of both Bont and Merret is that they rarely waste a possession. Merret's ball use against Hawthorn was sublime.......he's a major riser with a bullet.

Love Cripps but he just isn't as damaging.

It's something Zach's been doing for a while, his vision through traffic and foot skills are astounding. He's comfortably the best ball user we have right now, makes Goddard look more like Andrew Swallow

 

[PP34]

You've answered your own question with what's bolded. If his ball winning makes no difference, than of what value to Carlton is that ball winning? Why isn't he playing in such a way that makes his poor forwards better? There's way to do this. He himself could be a better ball user and not commit 4 clangers a game despite hardly kicking it, he himself could be better at thrusting the ball with his low metres gained stats. He himself could make the forward line better, by having the ability to be a better resting forward, mixing it up to give the opposition defence something to think about and attract attention as a forward making it easier for his teammates.

Think of it this way - if you put Bontempelli instead of Cripps in Carlton's team. Yes, he would win less clearances and probably an even higher percentage of those clearances would go to waste. But Bontempelli is a much better kick, has much more attacking instincts to get the ball moving forward, will attract attention as a ball mover because he's a better ball mover (ie teams zone off Cripps' kick and zone onto the players he tries to handball to, therefore putting pressure on teammates), and has the ability to be a psuedo-key-forward whilst resting up there, which Cripps cannot do (majority of Bontempelli's 20+ goals last year were as a genuine resting forward, not from midfield, both goals he kicked against Collingwood Friday were when he was resting forward). Bontempelli averaged 4 and a half less clearances per game than Cripps, but spent about 1/3 less time in midfield - adjust for that and Cripps only averages 2.5 more clearances than Bontempelli. Is 2.5 clearances worth more than everything else that Bont offers that Cripps doesn't?

Just admit it. You're blindly in love with Bontempelli.

What utter garbage that post is.

 

[Substance]

Just admit it. You're blindly in love with Bontempelli.

What utter garbage that post is.

You asked for someone to tell you why there is daylight between the two, and you get someone willing to explain, and this is your response. Pathetic!

 

[ManOfClay]

Just admit it. You're blindly in love with Bontempelli.

What utter garbage that post is.

How was it garbage? You are the last need one here attacking people

 

[rooboy29]

My mistake. I don't understand the point your trying to make then. What Libba did 3 seasons ago isn't going to make anyone take him ahead of Merrett now.

Id take libba ahead of merret!

 

[PP34]

You asked for someone to tell you why there is daylight between the two, and you get someone willing to explain, and this is your response. Pathetic!

Almost as pathetic as blaming Cripps for Carlton's scoring woes.

Cripps is being talked of negatively because he doesn't play up forward. We play him in a Bont like role and we get totally obliterated in the middle.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

Id take libba ahead of merret!

I'd take half a saussie with no sauce over all of North's donation tins.

 

[rooboy29]

I'd take half a saussie with no sauce over all of North's donation tins.

I would to as it would be of more value! Bery intelligent come back though

 

[Bomberblitzer]

I would to as it would be of more value! Bery intelligent come back though

Can't say the same about yours.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Cripps is being talked of negatively because he doesn't play up forward. We play him in a Bont like role and we get totally obliterated in the middle.

I also doubt he'd be a particularly effective forward right now.. his goal kicking accuracy is pretty shocking. The next step for him is impacting the scoreboard more

 

[Ambrosia]

Id take libba ahead of merret!

Nothing wrong with that opinion but there is no way that North would take Libba ahead of Merrett given their need for talented outside players.

 

[nineteen eighty]

new thread will be started soon.
Oliver v Parish v ?
we're just waiting for #3 to make themselves known.

Can we include a Tigers player for the shits and giggles...

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Almost as pathetic as blaming Cripps for Carlton's scoring woes.

Cripps is being talked of negatively because he doesn't play up forward. We play him in a Bont like role and we get totally obliterated in the middle.

Carlton are among the bottom rankings in clearance differential, and scores and defending scores from clearances. Last year, you lost 45 more clearances than you won despite having Cripps in the middle. That means on average you lost clearances by 2.

It's a one game sample size, but you lost clearances by 2 to Essendon in the game that Cripps didn't play. Essendon also on average lost clearances by 2 for the rest of the season. In other words, in the game that Cripps didn't play last year there was no difference to the averages that you could expect for Carlton winning the clearance battle than the rest of the season.

The two games that Cripps didn't play in 2015, you lost clearances by 18 to eventual premiers West Coast, and you beat GWS by 5 clearances against Mumford. You won clearances by an average of about 2 in 2015. West Coast won by a about an average of 1, and GWS lost clearances by about an average of 4. In other words, you beat your GWS expected margin by about 2, lost to West Coast by about 19.

So across the last three games there's one game you were smashed by, one game that you actually did marginally better without Cripps, and one game that broke even.

Of course you don't want to make generalisations over a sample space of 3 games but you'd think more than 1 of them you'd be smashed on the inside without Cripps if he adds that much value to your midfield.

 

[Dons4days]

Can we include a Tigers player for the shits and giggles...

Surely Mills is the 3rd from that draft class to join that debate?

 

[Milanista28]

AFL Player Rankings after round one:

Bontempelli (WB) 4th
Merrett (Ess) 29th
Cripps (Car) 49th
Kelly (GWS) 89th

Some other interesting ones from that same draft class:

Crouch (Ade) 122nd
Dunstan (StK) 182nd
Kolodjashnij (GCS) 207th
Taylor (Bri) 211th
Billings (StK) 290th
McDonald (NM) 338th
Boyd (WB) 367nd

There are four players from the draft class ranked in the top 100 and a fifth (Crouch) should join them soon. They are the standouts from the draft class so far. It's also worth reminding people that the AFL player rankings only take account of the past 40 games played by a player during the past two seasons. Players such as Billings and Boyd, who have played 27 and 29 games, respectively, during that period are better than their ranking suggests.

I'd have Fantasia as better than all bar the top 4 definitely and maybe Matt Crouch.

 

[Milanista28]

Surely Mills is the 3rd from that draft class to join that debate?

All playing for 2nd anyway Weitering will be number 1. I even think he could average 25-30 as a mid. Genuine star.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Just admit it. You're blindly in love with Bontempelli.

What utter garbage that post is.

Explain why it is garbage.

Really, it was obviously accurate (I mean honestly... classically deluded to even suggest otherwise).

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Carlton are among the bottom rankings in clearance differential, and scores and defending scores from clearances. Last year, you lost 45 more clearances than you won despite having Cripps in the middle. That means on average you lost clearances by 2.

It's a one game sample size, but you lost clearances by 2 to Essendon in the game that Cripps didn't play. Essendon also on average lost clearances by 2 for the rest of the season. In other words, in the game that Cripps didn't play last year there was no difference to the averages that you could expect for Carlton winning the clearance battle than the rest of the season.

The two games that Cripps didn't play in 2015, you lost clearances by 18 to eventual premiers West Coast, and you beat GWS by 5 clearances against Mumford. You won clearances by an average of about 2 in 2015. West Coast won by a about an average of 1, and GWS lost clearances by about an average of 4. In other words, you beat your GWS expected margin by about 2, lost to West Coast by about 19.

So across the last three games there's one game you were smashed by, one game that you actually did marginally better without Cripps, and one game that broke even.

Of course you don't want to make generalisations over a sample space of 3 games but you'd think more than 1 of them you'd be smashed on the inside without Cripps if he adds that much value to your midfield.

teams are dynamic entities full of moving parts. you can't make those kind of generalizations.

it's like saying taylor walker isn't a great forward because the crows without him put 147 points

 

[gangsta deluxe]

teams are dynamic entities full of moving parts. you can't make those kind of generalizations.

it's like saying taylor walker isn't a great forward because the crows without him put 147 points

Look at the post he was replying to (the one saying you'd get boned were he to go forward).

If the team is so dynamic it should be able to accomodate him moving forward and being a decent target. Rotating through. That doesn't happen. Why?

What he was saying was actually reinforcing your point that teams, including your own, are dynamic. That isnt what he is questioning as dynamic.

 

[adammania9]

All playing for 2nd anyway Weitering will be number 1. I even think he could average 25-30 as a mid. Genuine star.

No way is Dunstan the sixth best from 2013. Still living off that round 3, 2014 performance I see. I did notice the absence of Ben Brown who I would place at 5th. There's also Rory Lobb who has limitless potential also.

 

[Old navy]

All playing for 2nd anyway Weitering will be number 1. I even think he could average 25-30 as a mid. Genuine star.

Yeah that kid is a serious footballer, made Rance look 2nd rate at times, in just his first game playing as a genuine forward, very impressive, IMO he should be played predominately as a forward, with the skill set he has he's kind of wasted at CHB.
Reminds me a bit of Cameron started off at CHB, played half a season, which was probably good for his development.
But once GWS realised how good he could be as a forward, he has never gone back.

 

[Boohemian]

Melbourne based players? Yeah, sure. Why not.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Melbourne based players? Yeah, sure. Why not.

Any suggestions for which non Melbourne based player you want to put in there?

 

[The Bomb]

All playing for 2nd anyway Weitering will be number 1. I even think he could average 25-30 as a mid. Genuine star.

Hipwood, Francis could make this very interesting in 3 years time.

 

[rooboy29]

Nothing wrong with that opinion but there is no way that North would take Libba ahead of Merrett given their need for talented outside players.

But im not a north recruiter so dont see your point