Crisp to HBF?

[Anzacday]

Its funny how both Howe and Sinclair started in the forward line and made the switch...

Don't forget the ballerina did too.
So did Dunn for that matter.

 

[donkeyballs]

Sinclair was a poor forward and Howe incredibly inconsistent. In defense they have shown the discipline required to play back where many more attacking players fail as they tend to play more on instinct.

However I get your point that you don't know if a midfielder or forward has the discipline to defend unless they are played there, but with players like Crisp or Pendlebury(another player whose name is constantly brought up in these sought of discussions) they are not players struggling or stagnating but rather players who are clearly best 22. My opinion is that you don't push a best 22 forward/mid back and replace them with a lesser forward/mid option for the sake of getting more eye catching types in the team. Rather you play a forward/mid back because either your first choice defenders are injured/out of form or that forward/mid is struggling and you're looking to find a new role for them. Howe would be an example of the former, Sinclair the latter. Regardless I would always be reticent to see a best 22 non defender played in defense unless there are no other options. Crisp to me is clearly in Collingwood's best 22 midfield.

The best 22 naturally has to change when you recruit guys like wells (midfielder), WHE (high half forward/wing) and young midfielders, such as JDG and Phillips are ripe for more midfield/wing time. There are only so many spots in the midfield, so you either need to drop existing mids to let the new mids in, or you move mids who are solid best 22 players to other roles in place of weaker players (in this case defenders) so that the overall standard of the best 22 lifts.

I'm not sure whether crisp to HBF would work or not but I'd like to see it tested in the preseason given the new intake of mids.

 

[Quicky]

I understand that people like the flashy players and that more often than not those players play up forward or on ball, but I do not understand why whenever a club starts to build depth in those positions that there are calls for some of those players to be played in defense.

A defender's role is first and foremost to defend. Crisp, like many of the midfielders on the list, has many attributes that you would like in your defenders with the notable exception of being a good defender. Howe, Maynard, Ramsay, Sinclair, Scharenberg, Goldsack and Langdon are all superior defenders compared to the recognised midfielders. Before any one mentions his ability to play tight on an opposition mid I would point out that playing a run with role through the middle is about as relevant to playing off half back as playing ruck is to full forward.

Now this does not mean I'm against playing a mid behind the ball, just not at the expense of a genuine defender. Crisp could be played in this sort of role but if it came to that I'd rather see Adams played off the back of the square as he played that role well last year and it would allow both Crisp and DeGoey more time on ball which could hopefully help improve the teams clearance work.

What do you judge Crisp's defensive ability off? To my knowledge he hasn't played there in the past. So that is yet to be determined. It's a good point if truly he can't defend, not much point playing him there, but I don't see why he can't.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

What do you judge Crisp's defensive ability off? To my knowledge he hasn't played there in the past. So that is yet to be determined. It's a good point if truly he can't defend, not much point playing him there, but I don't see why he can't.

But if all those attributes make him better utilised as a midfielder who plays behind the ball or as run with, and if we have a bunch of guys who (when healthy) should be taking up those defensive positions - why the need to move him?

I don't mind trying it in preseason, but unless we have a situation where we have none of HBFers or small defenders available (or badly out of form) then I don't see why you would try it in season proper just for the sake of a change.

 

[Vicky Park]

I want someone that would run the ball out of the back half like Lumumba used to.. like a big powerful horse..

I definitely would love to see a mid or 2 in our backline.. particularly ones with grunt speed courage. Dunno if Crisp is the answer.

BF is a strange place. I remember lots of complaints (not saying from you) about Lumumba doing exactly that! He was too predictable, over confident, kept running into trouble, getting caught, etc. We are hard to please.

 

[doppleganger]

HBF is one of the most important positions on the ground.

Hawthorn have played all of Hodge, Mitchell and Burgoyne across there recently, in addition to guys like Birchall, Guerra and Gibson who most would consider traditional 'defenders'.

We have guys like Howe, Maynard and Ramsay who people are comfortable locking in as our 'defenders'...so then other players could and should be a combination of players who can play behind the ball if required.

Hodge, he is simply a jet our version of Pendles I guess...so for team balance no reason why Pendles couldn't play behind the ball.
Mitchell, great in the contest, clean hands, a great decision maker and good kick over a short distance...also has a bit of mongrel in him. I see Adams as closest fit to Mitchell, but obviously still needs to improve his decision making and kicking, although it has been improving.
Burgoyne, Wells fits his bill. A dynamic midfield clearance machine, somebody who can burst through a line and is simply silk.

For mine playing Wells behind the ball across HB would be perfect for us, he would set us up perfectly. But as with Burgoyne, it doesn't exclude Wells from having stints in the middle when required.

If Pendles needs a rest, he could go behind the ball like Hodge and control things from there.

If a player like Wills has good VFL form, getting him time in the midfield whilst shifting an Adams to HBF could be beneficial for the team.

It is all about flexibility, players who can create and potentially score goals are just as in demand to play behind the ball and take the game on and set up scoring chains from HB these days, so even Fas, Sidey, WHE going across HB could work if struggling to get involved in the game.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

BF is a strange place. I remember lots of complaints (not saying from you) about Lumumba doing exactly that! He was too predictable, over confident, kept running into trouble, getting caught, etc. We are hard to please.

All Australian

 

[Duggy31]

I think we are in a good position with Crisp, Varcoe and Greenwood as these guys can rotate given the situation needed.

If you need all out attack, Crisp plays half back, Varcoe in the middle and Levi plays forward.

If we need someone to shut down a midfielder, Varcoe goes back, Greenwood stays forward, Crisp goes into the middle.

If we are falling behind in the contested ball, then Greenwood goes into the middle, Crisp goes forward/wing, Varcoe goes back.

People forget its horses for courses. We will set up differently in order to exploit different teams weaknesses and nullify their strengths.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Crisp is too valuable to play at half back. We need him in the midfield rotations. Varcoe can play at half back. The other one to try at half back is Chris Mayne, who hasn't been able to adjust since moving across from the west. Mayne could be a little like Howe who just couldn't contribute as a half forward. Until he finds his feet it might be wise to try Mayne down back.

 

[mike123]

BF is a strange place. I remember lots of complaints (not saying from you) about Lumumba doing exactly that! He was too predictable, over confident, kept running into trouble, getting caught, etc. We are hard to please.

I always thought the complaints of Lumumba were over the top exaggerations.

 

[PIrOed]

The best 22 naturally has to change when you recruit guys like wells (midfielder), WHE (high half forward/wing) and young midfielders, such as JDG and Phillips are ripe for more midfield/wing time. There are only so many spots in the midfield, so you either need to drop existing mids to let the new mids in, or you move mids who are solid best 22 players to other roles in place of weaker players (in this case defenders) so that the overall standard of the best 22 lifts.

You're forgetting the third and my preferred option, play the young mids who haven't earned a spot in the midfield in other roles in place of weaker players(in this case defenders) so that the overall standard of the best 22 lifts.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Very good call OP. Has become an elite defender.

 

[wicksy]

No he's not... He's a horrible user of the ball.
The best position for Crisp is in the VFL.

Good call dickhead!!

 

[Apex36]

Quality bump