Criticism of Players

[_RT_]

I am convinced that some fans on this board are either totally deluded or are just unable to accept criticism of certain players. Mention that Richo is not helping with the development of the younger players and get howled down, another thread mentions that JB is an unaccountable footballer and get howled down.

Why are these 2 given protection when others who go out and give their all each week are given crap in thread after thread. Johnson is leading a side that is playing poorly yet it is his fault we sit down the bottom, Raines is playing poorly and needs to turn things around but in the thread I started about him and perhaps moving him away from the backline for a few weeks a few came out and suggested that he is close to getting the arse from the list. Tambling had a poor game against the Hawks and again the knives came out for him to get the chop and sent back to Coburg or worse still traded. The list goes on and on, Tuck, Tivendale, Hyde, Schulz, they all cop it and get labelled as duds and not up to it. Yet as I said mention a couple of 200 gamers and the back slappers appear and defend these blokes to the hilt. Why?

What affords them this sort of protection? Is it because they are long term Richmond players who have stuck by the club despite the failings of the club? Why shouldn't they be held to account like the rest of the list?

The only way this club is going to get better is to hold every one accountable for a poor 2007 season not just pick a few easy targets from the pack and get stuck into each one of them. Some wont draw as much criticism as others but the only way you will get improvement is to find something that can be improved on and work on that. Take Foley for example played very good football all year in a poor side but still lacks the fitness to become that elite level midfielder we all hope he will be. So there is something he can work on in the off season. Polak played very good footballer as a loose man for most of the season. Get him to be an accountable CHB and we gain a player that is capabale of shutting down an oppositions gun forward.

Some of you may be accepting of the returns you get from some of our players but I for one am not. 1 win from 16 games is not what any of us should be accepting and every player & coach is responsible for this and none of them should be excluded from the criticism they deserve regardless of how many of the supporters love them.

 

[Paddles]

I am convinced that some fans on this board are either totally deluded or are just unable to accept criticism of certain players. Mention that Richo is not helping with the development of the younger players and get howled down, another thread mentions that JB is an unaccountable footballer and get howled down.

Why are these 2 given protection when others who go out and give their all each week are given crap in thread after thread. Johnson is leading a side that is playing poorly yet it is his fault we sit down the bottom, Raines is playing poorly and needs to turn things around but in the thread I started about him and perhaps moving him away from the backline for a few weeks a few came out and suggested that he is close to getting the arse from the list. Tambling had a poor game against the Hawks and again the knives came out for him to get the chop and sent back to Coburg or worse still traded. The list goes on and on, Tuck, Tivendale, Hyde, Schulz, they all cop it and get labelled as duds and not up to it. Yet as I said mention a couple of 200 gamers and the back slappers appear and defend these blokes to the hilt. Why?

What affords them this sort of protection? Is it because they are long term Richmond players who have stuck by the club despite the failings of the club? Why shouldn't they be held to account like the rest of the list?

The only way this club is going to get better is to hold every one accountable for a poor 2007 season not just pick a few easy targets from the pack and get stuck into each one of them. Some wont draw as much criticism as others but the only way you will get improvement is to find something that can be improved on and work on that. Take Foley for example played very good football all year in a poor side but still lacks the fitness to become that elite level midfielder we all hope he will be. So there is something he can work on in the off season. Polak played very good footballer as a loose man for most of the season. Get him to be an accountable CHB and we gain a player that is capabale of shutting down an oppositions gun forward.

Some of you may be accepting of the returns you get from some of our players but I for one am not. 1 win from 16 games is not what any of us should be accepting and every player & coach is responsible for this and none of them should be excluded from the criticism they deserve regardless of how many of the supporters love them.

the toys are out of the cot!

 

[_RT_]

the toys are out of the cot!

Not at all just annoyed that some will have a go at certain players as being no good but will defend others when they are all playing for a poor side. Tell me why should Richo and JB be excempt from any criticism? Because they get a lot of the ball and look to be trying hard it seems is the common theme to any responses about these 2. Sorry but just because you try hard and put in a valiant effort does not exclude you from criticism.

 

[Paddles]

Not at all just annoyed that some will have a go at certain players as being no good but will defend others when they are all playing for a poor side. Tell me why should Richo and JB be excempt from any criticism? Because they get a lot of the ball and look to be trying hard it seems is the common theme to any responses about these 2. Sorry but just because you try hard and put in a valiant effort does not exclude you from criticism.

Point made, bud!

 

[Goldust]

I am convinced that some fans on this board are either totally deluded or are just unable to accept criticism of certain players. Mention that Richo is not helping with the development of the younger players and get howled down, another thread mentions that JB is an unaccountable footballer and get howled down.

Why are these 2 given protection when others who go out and give their all each week are given crap in thread after thread. Johnson is leading a side that is playing poorly yet it is his fault we sit down the bottom, Raines is playing poorly and needs to turn things around but in the thread I started about him and perhaps moving him away from the backline for a few weeks a few came out and suggested that he is close to getting the arse from the list. Tambling had a poor game against the Hawks and again the knives came out for him to get the chop and sent back to Coburg or worse still traded. The list goes on and on, Tuck, Tivendale, Hyde, Schulz, they all cop it and get labelled as duds and not up to it. Yet as I said mention a couple of 200 gamers and the back slappers appear and defend these blokes to the hilt. Why?

What affords them this sort of protection? Is it because they are long term Richmond players who have stuck by the club despite the failings of the club? Why shouldn't they be held to account like the rest of the list?

The only way this club is going to get better is to hold every one accountable for a poor 2007 season not just pick a few easy targets from the pack and get stuck into each one of them. Some wont draw as much criticism as others but the only way you will get improvement is to find something that can be improved on and work on that. Take Foley for example played very good football all year in a poor side but still lacks the fitness to become that elite level midfielder we all hope he will be. So there is something he can work on in the off season. Polak played very good footballer as a loose man for most of the season. Get him to be an accountable CHB and we gain a player that is capabale of shutting down an oppositions gun forward.

Some of you may be accepting of the returns you get from some of our players but I for one am not. 1 win from 16 games is not what any of us should be accepting and every player & coach is responsible for this and none of them should be excluded from the criticism they deserve regardless of how many of the supporters love them.

No one is exempt from criticism...no one. But saying Richo is impeding the development of players like Schulz is lunacy!!
I think you will find that probably after 250 games and him basically carrying us to any resemblance of decency in that time has probably earned him a few brownie points in the bank.
He cops just as much criticism on here as the Tivendales, Tucks, Tamblings, Hydes etc. at times, but surely even you RT can see that he along with Foley, Polak and maybe one or two others has held us together this season.

Go ahead and compare Richo's first 50 games to Schulz and see who was the better player. Didn't Richo have to compete for opportunities alongside Jeff Hogg and Brendan Gale and Staurt Edwards? Yet we can't expect Schulz too....he has showed that damn much to warrant offloading a legend of the club to plonkl him in the goalsquare and hope he comes good.

You'll be the first guy on here bemoaning the fact we offloaded Richo when - if that were to happen - in two years time we did that and we discover that Schulz can't cut the mustard. You'll be telling us we should never have moved him on.

Why does Richo get a dream run compared to Schulz, Tambling etc. because he is making a CONTRIBUTION and for what it's worth, a SIGNIFICANT one. Comparing the work ethic, dedication, output and passion of Richardson compared to nine tenths of our list is like comparing a $1000 bottle of Grange to a bottle of McWilliams f***** sherry.

Put simply, why is Richo spared criticism....because HE AIN'T THE ONE LETTING US DOWN.

RT, I go every week - often with a different person depending oin who we play - defending the skill level of the like sof Hyde, Tuck, Tivendale, Tambling and even Bowden and Foley at times is defending the indefensible!!! It is abhorrent. I saw Tuck on Sunday 20 metres in the clear wobble a pass in to the forward line and hit a Power player who was under no pressure on the chest. THESE ARE NOT ISOLATED INCIDENTS. Our players do it week in week out! But you go ahead and defend them!!

 

[Paddles]

is like comparing a $1000 bottle of Grange to a bottle of McWilliams f***** sherry.

I'll be damned if i am gonna sit here and let you get away with bagging McWillians sherry.

You sir, you are a bounder!

 

[big bruno]

I am convinced that some fans on this board are either totally deluded or are just unable to accept criticism of certain players. Mention that Richo is not helping with the development of the younger players and get howled down, another thread mentions that JB is an unaccountable footballer and get howled down.

Why are these 2 given protection when others who go out and give their all each week are given crap in thread after thread. Johnson is leading a side that is playing poorly yet it is his fault we sit down the bottom, Raines is playing poorly and needs to turn things around but in the thread I started about him and perhaps moving him away from the backline for a few weeks a few came out and suggested that he is close to getting the arse from the list. Tambling had a poor game against the Hawks and again the knives came out for him to get the chop and sent back to Coburg or worse still traded. The list goes on and on, Tuck, Tivendale, Hyde, Schulz, they all cop it and get labelled as duds and not up to it. Yet as I said mention a couple of 200 gamers and the back slappers appear and defend these blokes to the hilt. Why?

What affords them this sort of protection? Is it because they are long term Richmond players who have stuck by the club despite the failings of the club? Why shouldn't they be held to account like the rest of the list?

The only way this club is going to get better is to hold every one accountable for a poor 2007 season not just pick a few easy targets from the pack and get stuck into each one of them. Some wont draw as much criticism as others but the only way you will get improvement is to find something that can be improved on and work on that. Take Foley for example played very good football all year in a poor side but still lacks the fitness to become that elite level midfielder we all hope he will be. So there is something he can work on in the off season. Polak played very good footballer as a loose man for most of the season. Get him to be an accountable CHB and we gain a player that is capabale of shutting down an oppositions gun forward.

Some of you may be accepting of the returns you get from some of our players but I for one am not. 1 win from 16 games is not what any of us should be accepting and every player & coach is responsible for this and none of them should be excluded from the criticism they deserve regardless of how many of the supporters love them.

Difference between criticising a player and calling a Legend like Richo a "useless, overatted has-been."

I openly say that Richo has flaws in his game, but he is a legend of the club and deserves respect!!

Some of the shit people post about him is terrible and goes beyond Criticism .

 

[Goldust]

I'll be damned if i am gonna sit here and let you get away with bagging McWillians sherry.

You sir, you are a bounder!

I indulge in neither Grange nor McWilliams sherry. Like my red, but it has to be of reasonable quality.
It is not unreasonable that I expect our players to be of reasonable quality too!!
But gladly share the Grange with yr when we win the flag in 2011.

 

[lids2004roar]

Is this thread asking why people bag Tivendale more than they bag Richo?

Some players get defended more than others for good reason!

 

[CoggaRules]

Difference between criticising a player and calling a Legend like Richo a "useless, overatted has-been."

I openly say that Richo has flaws in his game, but he is a legend of the club and deserves respect!!

Some of the shit people post about him is terrible and goes beyond Criticism .

so tell us wise one...what do you suggest is shit and goes beyond critisism. From where i sit...anything Richo that is suggested here, is what you just suggested. He has flaws and we need someone without flaws. Then we might be hailing a legend who took us to the top of the mountain. Not jsut a legend because he kept us coming to see him perform the unbelievable, whether flawed or not...it was unbelievable, unbelievably ridiculous or unbelievably inspirational. Richo has everyones respect, so lets not get all ass licking here ok? Its not about the respect, its all about the big picture...the tigers and how we get out of this ****ing hole, and Richo has been there all the way down.
And if you sit down and think...like you know how to do that huh? You might also realise that games lost purely because of his flaws vs game won with his inspiration + flaws...is lopsided. You want to live in the past, but you also want the tigers to go froward dont you?

 

[_RT_]

No one is exempt from criticism...no one. But saying Richo is impeding the development of players like Schulz is lunacy!!
I think you will find that probably after 250 games and him basically carrying us to any resemblance of decency in that time has probably earned him a few brownie points in the bank.
He cops just as much criticism on here as the Tivendales, Tucks, Tamblings, Hydes etc. at times, but surely even you RT can see that he along with Foley, Polak and maybe one or two others has held us together this season.

I agree Richo has been a good player this year but it just seems that as soon as anyone dares suggest something other than blind faith in Richo they are not a true supporter or a troll or just plain stupid. The point of this is as you said that no-one on our list is except from criticism for the year we have had. Whether they have performed as well as they have in the past, as Richo has, or if they have improved their performances as Foley, Polak, & Patto have to name a few. All I have tried to do is open up the vision of the fans to other possibilities. If we were to play Richo further up the ground and it saw players like Jay, Jack and Cleve develop faster than they currently are is that a good thing or a bad thing for the over all progress of the side?

Go ahead and compare Richo's first 50 games to Schulz and see who was the better player. Didn't Richo have to compete for opportunities alongside Jeff Hogg and Brendan Gale and Staurt Edwards? Yet we can't expect Schulz too....he has showed that damn much to warrant offloading a legend of the club to plonkl him in the goalsquare and hope he comes good.

Again seems my point has been missed. I have not said we should off load Richo all I have suggested is perhaps it is time that we stop making him the focus of our gameplan. Mix things up a bit and see what happens. After all how much more poorly can we perform. As for the comparison that is a no brainer. As for Richo competing against Hogg it lasted 1 year as Hogg was traded at the end of 93, nor do I think Richo was really in competition with Edwards he was more a support act to Richo until Richo did his knee.

You'll be the first guy on here bemoaning the fact we offloaded Richo when - if that were to happen - in two years time we did that and we discover that Schulz can't cut the mustard. You'll be telling us we should never have moved him on.

Again let me make it clear I am not saying we get rid of Richo. I am saying give Schulz the same sort of opportunity Richo got at the same stage of his career. Given the F50 to do as he pleased and he bacame the player he is today.

Why does Richo get a dream run compared to Schulz, Tambling etc. because he is making a CONTRIBUTION and for what it's worth, a SIGNIFICANT one. Comparing the work ethic, dedication, output and passion of Richardson compared to nine tenths of our list is like comparing a $1000 bottle of Grange to a bottle of McWilliams f***** sherry.
Put simply, why is Richo spared criticism....because HE AIN'T THE ONE LETTING US DOWN.

Just because those others are not making a contribution on the stats sheet or scoreboard does not mean they are trying as hard as any other player on the field. When I got stuck into Schulz earlier in the year I was told in no uncertain terms that he was sitting rather dejected in the change rooms after the game because he had felt like he let his teammates down by getting hurt again. All the players should be hurting after the season they have gone through but we don't see it or read about it but Richo because he shares his emotions with the masses on a weekly basis he gets sympathy and comments like how can such a great player put up with all the crap that eminates from Richmond. We as supporters should not be sitting their clapping them off after a close but no cigar performance we should be fuming that we have just witnessed another inept effort from the club we love but after so many years of it some of us seem to be happy with close enough being good enough.

RT, I go every week - often with a different person depending oin who we play - defending the skill level of the like sof Hyde, Tuck, Tivendale, Tambling and even Bowden and Foley at times is defending the indefensible!!! It is abhorrent. I saw Tuck on Sunday 20 metres in the clear wobble a pass in to the forward line and hit a Power player who was under no pressure on the chest. THESE ARE NOT ISOLATED INCIDENTS. Our players do it week in week out! But you go ahead and defend them!!

I too attend every week depending on work and by about the 10 minute mark of the second quarter in recent weeks I start having the same why did I bother feeling as I had in 2004. I sit with the wife and try and explain to her why the hell our players look like the Keystone Cops half the time. On Sunday I went with a mate and turned to him during the third quarter and asked why do I constantly hear the Benny Hill theme music running through my mind while watching the game.

As for defending the players, it depends on the circumstances as to whether I will defend them or not. Have spent countless hours in arguements with many opposition supporters defending our own, but at the same time if they make a valid point about these players I have also been able to see what they have to say carries some weight. It has got to the stage now though where I can't be bothered trying to even defend them anymore because it is the same old things week after week as you said that I am defending. So I now have turned to criticism but not just random, 'he is a dud' 'that player is a waste of space' type criticisms but somewhat contructive criticisms I hope so anyway.

This is what I have tried to do in a few different threads I have posted in the past few weeks. Including the Raines thread, the Richo thread, the Which do you prefer thread. All of these were trying to throw up options to discuss with fellow fans as to whether they think they might work or not. I don't think for one minute that everyone will agree with the opinions I put forward but at least I try and get some meaningful discussion going.

 

[big bruno]

so tell us wise one...what do you suggest is shit and goes beyond critisism. From where i sit...anything Richo that is suggested here, is what you just suggested. He has flaws and we need someone without flaws. Then we might be hailing a legend who took us to the top of the mountain. Not jsut a legend because he kept us coming to see him perform the unbelievable, whether flawed or not...it was unbelievable, unbelievably ridiculous or unbelievably inspirational. Richo has everyones respect, so lets not get all ass licking here ok? Its not about the respect, its all about the big picture...the tigers and how we get out of this ****ing hole, and Richo has been there all the way down.
And if you sit down and think...like you know how to do that huh? You might also realise that games lost purely because of his flaws vs game won with his inspiration + flaws...is lopsided. You want to live in the past, but you also want the tigers to go froward dont you?

Ok then smart arse....wanna get rid of every player with flaws?

Kane Johnson - Hopeless disposals, no idea how to attack.
Raines, King - Both Kick the ball too high which give opposition chance to get to ball first.
Polak - Hasn't been proven as a true tagging defender yet. So far just plays loose.
Tivendale - has too many clangers.
Petts, Tambling - Confidence players. never play the same game twice in a row.
Tuck - Hard at the ball, but that's about it.
Edwards, Howart, Thurstfield - All great young players but fail to out muscle thier opponents becuase of thier physical size.

SHOULD I KEEP GOING?????? I think i'm making my point. EVERY ****ING PLAYER HAS FLAWS YOU IDIOT!!

Richo's flaws are easily out weighed by his strong running and marking game. HE DOESN'T NEED TO MOVE!!!