Cronulla a certainty

[cos789]

To lose. Nobody interested in Cronulla??

.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Just have to wait and see. We have recruited very well and this could destroy the club if reports are true.

Note that rumours are of a substance that was not on the banned list in 2011 when taken, and the players are being offered 6 months if they confess. This suggests that they don't have solid evidence the practice continued after it was on the banned list, but the players know it only takes one person to crack and they are all done.

6 months or 2 years. Well that equates to 1 season or 2 seasons given the timing.

 

[Matchu]

Are Cronulla going to shut down if this goes further? I know they have always struggled financially.

 

[Aucklander]

Fairfax Media has been told Sharks players were given Thymosin Beta 4 and CJC-1295 peptides during the 2011 season.

It is understood the products were not on the World Anti-Doping Agency's banned list at the time but both were included in the Australian Crime Commission report into doping and match fixing under the heading "Performance and Image Enhancing Substances".

Link

Just adds to the confusion of this poorly put together report although I can see why some people would get a rise over this.

 

[Stromageddon]

Even in Adelaide, where league and NRL related news is pretty much non existant, the Sharks and their current woes have been fairly public over the last couple of days.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Link

Just adds to the confusion of this poorly put together report although I can see why some people would get a rise over this.

Yeah was't on the banned list at the time but it seems ASADA think players went on with it, and they want teammates to roll over on each other. They float the possibility of 12 months worth of wire taps but not where it is directed.

What gets me is that they are concentrating on one team who may be the big fish but we know other players in other teams are probably involved but they will not get the 11th hour attention and subsequent season disruption. Forget 6 months or 2 years. It is effectively 1 season or 2 seasons and you have to roll over on someone to get the 6 months.

I wonder given this was legal at first, whether the club knows of a continuation or the players went underground.

This season promised to be a good one. Idiots. ****.

 

[LUKOZADE]

It only concerns the 2011 squad but apparently 6 current Shark players have been offered the deal. It just depends who which will define the Club.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

ASADA are saying it may have been inadvertent. How can it be inadvertent and there be evidence unless you have positive samples?

 

[cos789]

Just have to wait and see. We have recruited very well and this could destroy the club if reports are true.

Note that rumours are of a substance that was not on the banned list in 2011 when taken, and the players are being offered 6 months if they confess. This suggests that they don't have solid evidence the practice continued after it was on the banned list, but the players know it only takes one person to crack and they are all done.

6 months or 2 years. Well that equates to 1 season or 2 seasons given the timing.

The media has been promoting this drugs investigation as "the biggest news in Australian sporting history" but we're yet to see anything. Another case of the headlines being much bigger than reality ?

.

 

[Mr Eagle]

The media has been promoting this drugs investigation as "the biggest news in Australian sporting history" but we're yet to see anything. Another case of the headlines being much bigger than reality ?

In the long term, it may turn out to be right. But considering the legal issues and potential prosecutions involved, better slow and quiet than a full-on sideshow just to make the media happy.

 

[cos789]

In the long term, it may turn out to be right. But considering the legal issues and potential prosecutions involved, better slow and quiet than a full-on sideshow just to make the media happy.

I don't get the sense of proportion.

Lance Armstrong and Storm stripped of titles because they cheated. Fair enough.
Melbourne tanked and Cronulla may have cheated. So WTF ?
We should be saying these guys cheated and they didn't win and promote that fact rather than what can we do to punish past offences.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

ASADA are saying it may have been inadvertent. How can it be inadvertent and there be evidence unless you have positive samples?

Players not knowing what they have been given?

 

[Mr Eagle]

Lance Armstrong and Storm stripped of titles because they cheated. Fair enough.
Melbourne tanked and Cronulla may have cheated. So WTF ?
We should be saying these guys cheated and they didn't win and promote that fact rather than what can we do to punish past offences.

But until they are (quasi-)legally proven to have committed the offences, you can't move onto that step because you can't say "you're a failed cheater" without risking legal action.

 

[Andrew Mc]

Players not knowing what they have been given?

I guess it comes down to whether or not it can be proved that the players took a banned substance at all. Someone who knows what they were given (and has proof) would need to be speaking to ASADA for this to happen. Still coming off as bluff from ASADA at this point.

 

[Northern_Union]

I can't go past the fact that the drug or substance that the players are supposedly guilty of taking wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time that the infringment is ment to have taken place. Do i have that right? If so then the players have no case to answer to in my opinion.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I can't go past the fact that the drug or substance that the players are supposedly guilty of taking wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time that the infringment is ment to have taken place. Do i have that right? If so then the players have no case to answer to in my opinion.

that has me stumped as well

 

[Mint Condition]

I can't go past the fact that the drug or substance that the players are supposedly guilty of taking wasn't on the list of banned substances at the time that the infringment is ment to have taken place. Do i have that right? If so then the players have no case to answer to in my opinion.

I don't think that's how it works. New drugs are being invented all the time. They have to be analysed before they either get added to the banned list or are deemed non performance enhancing. Any unlisted drug that can affect your bodies hormones is illegal under the WADA code.

Otherwise athletes could get away with switching to new PED's when the old ones inevitably get added to the list.

(I'm assuming these drugs were not previously on some 'accepted list' ... if that's the case then I would agree with you.)

 

[Northern_Union]

Surely that almost means that your guilty until ASADA proves you innocent?

 

[storm fan]

#NRL statement regarding Cronulla

The National Rugby League has reassured fans that the Cronulla Sharks will take the field in the opening round of the season and that the NRL will support the club and its Board throughout the current ASADA investigation.
“With the season kick-off just hours away we accept that the ongoing speculation around the ASADA investigation is causing incredible uncertainty for many in the game, particularly right now for Cronulla and its fans,” NRL Chief Executive, Mr Dave Smith, said today. “As I have said from day one, the NRL is taking the ASADA investigation very seriously.

Full statement: http://www.nrl.com/nrl-statement-on-sharks/tabid/10874/newsid/71028/default.aspx

 

[robbieando]

Well we all know that the Sharks would be playing on Sunday, they will be playing on though this regardless of outcome. The NRL wouldn't let them fold mid season or even pull out. Heck I don't even think losing 14 players is as bad (of course image wise it is) as some make it out to be

For argument sake 14 player were banned tomorrow, then replacements would be named. But I don't think 14 of the named squad to play on Sunday are facing bans or even are in their 25 man squad. I think it might be a mix of 25 man squad from 2011 still remaining and some NSW Cup players. So it might be a case of 3 or 4 First Grade players and plenty of NSW Cup players. But thats just an opinion.

They will play on regardless until such time findings are giving and things go from there.

 

[Mint Condition]

Surely that almost means that your guilty until ASADA proves you innocent?

People aren't, but unlisted substances are seemingly treated as PED's until proven otherwise. It makes sense really...if it wasn't like that it would be ridiculously easy to cheat. The way it is now, people might get away with cheating initially, but they have a high chance of getting caught in time.

One of the drugs these guys allegedly took (CJC 1295) is pretty dodgy sounding. It hasn't even been approved to be used by humans.

I do feel sorry for the players as I'm sure most are pretty ignorant about what they're taking and are putting their faith in so called experts. But that excuse won't help them if they get found to have taken a banned substance. Athletes these days have to be very careful and very aware of what they're putting in their bodies. Especially when it comes to things for recovery and so on.

Found this right at the top of the WADA prohibited list:

S0. NON APPROVED SUBSTANCES
Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the
subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any
governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g
drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer
drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all
times.

 

[Davo23]

Hey Cronulla players, we have no evidence but we've had a huge publicity campaign.

Please confess to something,
please,
please.

signed

ACC.

 

[Baldur]

All this stuff about not being on the banned list and therefore ok until it is on the list is just the media being stupid again.

The code lists effects that are banned. Then it lists drugs which have that effect. It also bans any drug not approved for humans. So a drug that has a banned effect is forbidden. Said drug later appearing in the list of banned drugs is pretty good confirmation that it had the banned effect.

If the players took something that is now on the list and ASADA prove it they are done. Regardless of it appearing on this list after they took it. Their only chance to walk away is if they can prove they took it without any fault or negligence. When the drug appeared on the list is relevent to their ability to do this but it is by no means a fool proof defence.

Postive drug tests are so 20th century. Peptides increase the level of natural hormones and the peptide itself disappears within hours. Heavy exercise lowers the level of natural hormones. So a player who takes peptides while undergoing heavy training will gain a better effect from the heavy training while never putting their hormone levels beyond normal. If said peptide is not on the list at present, it will not be tested for and the player will never record a postive test even if tested within hours of taking the peptide.

 

[storm fan]

Well we all know that the Sharks would be playing on Sunday, they will be playing on though this regardless of outcome. The NRL wouldn't let them fold mid season or even pull out. Heck I don't even think losing 14 players is as bad (of course image wise it is) as some make it out to be

For argument sake 14 player were banned tomorrow, then replacements would be named. But I don't think 14 of the named squad to play on Sunday are facing bans or even are in their 25 man squad. I think it might be a mix of 25 man squad from 2011 still remaining and some NSW Cup players. So it might be a case of 3 or 4 First Grade players and plenty of NSW Cup players. But thats just an opinion.

They will play on regardless until such time findings are giving and things go from there.

I think the issue around this particular statement is to ensure fans that Cronulla won't be forfeiting the game on Sunday. There was some concern over it, good on the NRL for getting onto the front foot early in this regard.

Regarding the rest of the season I agree, Cronulla will definitely be playing this season.

People aren't, but unlisted substances are seemingly treated as PED's until proven otherwise. It makes sense really...if it wasn't like that it would be ridiculously easy to cheat. The way it is now, people might get away with cheating initially, but they have a high chance of getting caught in time.

One of the drugs these guys allegedly took (CJC 1295) is pretty dodgy sounding. It hasn't even been approved to be used by humans.

I do feel sorry for the players as I'm sure most are pretty ignorant about what they're taking and are putting their faith in so called experts. But that excuse won't help them if they get found to have taken a banned substance. Athletes these days have to be very careful and very aware of what they're putting in their bodies. Especially when it comes to things for recovery and so on.

It looks as though it has already help them. If they work with the investigation and not fight it, and admit to taking these supplements because they were given to them by so-called experts they will be given 6 month-paid suspension instead of a 2 years suspension which would result in a termination of contract.

All this stuff about not being on the banned list and therefore ok until it is on the list is just the media being stupid again.

The code lists effects that are banned. Then it lists drugs which have that effect. It also bans any drug not approved for humans. So a drug that has a banned effect is forbidden. Said drug later appearing in the list of banned drugs is pretty good confirmation that it had the banned effect.

If the players took something that is now on the list and ASADA prove it they are done. Regardless of it appearing on this list after they took it. Their only chance to walk away is if they can prove they took it without any fault or negligence. When the drug appeared on the list is relevent to their ability to do this but it is by no means a fool proof defence.

Postive drug tests are so 20th century. Peptides increase the level of natural hormones and the peptide itself disappears within hours. Heavy exercise lowers the level of natural hormones. So a player who takes peptides while undergoing heavy training will gain a better effect from the heavy training while never putting their hormone levels beyond normal. If said peptide is not on the list at present, it will not be tested for and the player will never record a postive test even if tested within hours of taking the peptide.

When the players took it in 2011 it was legal, as did many other NRL & AFL clubs. They are being invesigated for continued use of the supplements in 2012 after it was banned.

 

[robbieando]

Coaching Staff has just been sacked/stood down (delete for each person as needed)

About to get very messy. No names unless they are confirmed and cards to trolls