Cronulla a certainty

[robbieando]

Dave Smith & John Grant to face off with Lundy

Source and full article: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...r-doping-scandal/story-e6frexnr-1226595910332

So Smith and Grant might be discussing you know "other topics" with Lundy in her position as Sports Minister? They could be meeting her on other matters such as Stadium redevelop funding, junior development funding and Sports Commission funding. No doubt the issue will come up, but its not like the matter can be sped up on her say so.

Heck a cyclist who admitted guilt to ASADA late last year us part of the USADA findings on Lance Armstrong is STILL waiting to find out how long he is to be banned for. So ASADA isn't a quick process.

Other news:

ASADA DON'T go via the clubs for interviews, they either go to the player directly or the Sporting Body (ie NRL). This is a point a lot of people miss. If ASADA are going to target Manly any other club for that matter, they WON'T be asking Manly for help. Help from the club is only requested if the club comes forward and requests the investigation which Manly clearly hasn't done.

 

[robbieando]

Hey, mate, no need for insults.
I have been a lawyer for over 20 years, and I know what legal process is all about.

So then you would know under WADA rules where any appeal is heard?

ACC and ASADA are leaking selected parts of the report to the media on the basis that, once it's out there, you can con most of the people most of the time.

Seeing as the information that is out there is the Sharks independent report and the ACC briefing to the NRL about is referred to them in the classified ACC report.

If you ask the average punter whether sportsmen take PED's, he'll say "of course, I've seen it on TV!".

Why what a general statement. "I saw Lance on TV admit to doing so". But this has no bearing on a drugs hearing that may or may not take place.

All of this prejudices the trials of anyone subsequently charged, and that's what they want.

Yes ASADA wants to prejudices trials now

You said you were a lawyer again????

 

[Davo23]

So then you would know under WADA rules where any appeal is heard?



Seeing as the information that is out there is the Sharks independent report and the ACC briefing to the NRL about is referred to them in the classified ACC report.



Why what a general statement. "I saw Lance on TV admit to doing so". But this has no bearing on a drugs hearing that may or may not take place.



Yes ASADA wants to prejudices trials now

You said you were a lawyer again????

I dont know who you are, but why the personal attacks?

Did I say something to upset you?

 

[robbieando]

I dont know who you are, but why the personal attacks?

Righttttttttttt....

Did I say something to upset you?

I think you need to ask yourself that question because if you think anything I've posted is a personal attack on you then clearly you are easily offended.

How about answering the questions, rather than avoiding them?

 

[Davo23]

Righttttttttttt....



I think you need to ask yourself that question because if you think anything I've posted is a personal attack on you then clearly you are easily offended.

How about answering the questions, rather than avoiding them?

If you can't see the smokescreen that the ACC has put up, then we're wasting a lot of space here.
It's a political game by the Minister aimed at distracting attention from a disastrous electoral position.

There may be people charged eventually, but there's a presumption of innocence that somehow has got lost. The announcement indicated that criminal charges were pending, and criminal gangs were involved. What happened to all that?

And, you know, I took umbrage at your sarcastic replies and smilies: I know sarcasm is the highest form of wit, but guess I'm not used to arguing with a Mod!

I take my statutory right to refuse to answer any further questions: I charge a lot of money to answer questions, but you're welcome to sign a Costs Agreement and I'll accommodate you!

And you would know that I have to provide a Disclosure Statement first... (Insert sarcastic smilie).

.

 

[robbieando]

If you can't see the smokescreen that the ACC has put up, then we're wasting a lot of space here.
It's a political game by the Minister aimed at distracting attention from a disastrous electoral position.

There may be people charged eventually, but there's a presumption of innocence that somehow has got lost. The announcement indicated that criminal charges were pending, and criminal gangs were involved. What happened to all that?

If you think this is Political exercise then god help us all. That is the biggest cop out of all time. Where is the believed gain? I just don't understand the thinking behind this train of thought. Just because people want answers doesn't mean answers are available nor legally available for that matter. As for the idea of presumption of innocence, who's presumption has been breeched? Maybe that's why there are two versions of the ACC report and ADASA have rules regarding what their members can say and those who front them.

But the ACC and ADASA aren't the problem they are following the guidelines set. It's the miss reporting from the clubs and peak bodies that are causing the bigger problems.

And, you know, I took umbrage at your sarcastic replies and smilies: I know sarcasm is the highest form of wit, but guess I'm not used to arguing with a Mod!

I take my statutory right to refuse to answer any further questions: I charge a lot of money to answer questions, but you're welcome to sign a Costs Agreement and I'll accommodate you!

And you would know that I have to provide a Disclosure Statement first... (Insert sarcastic smilie).

.

So then if you don't have an answer don't respond. But don't cry foul either.

 

[storm fan]

You mean the one Lundy wanted in 2007 when in opposition or the one the you want because they haven't acted quick enough for your liking. Remember, most of the Sharks information has come from an independent review requested by the Sharks themselves. The rest has been the media playing guessing games.

Are you a labor man?

Lets back up a minute.

What I said is "I think you will find that after this investigation there will be a review of the processes ASADA take."

I haven't called for a review, I said I think you find there will be review at the end of this.

So you claim to speak on behalf of the ACC, the Federal Police and each of the State Police forces in this country. Remember there are 3 parts to the ACC report, not just PED use. 2 of which involve criminal links.

Lets back up again.

I haven't claimed to speak on behalf of any organisation. What I said was in relation to the State Police Forces and what they have freely stated in the media. There is no basis for a criminal investigation into the codes or clubs.

As for the parts of the investigation relating to organized crime and exporting/importing drugs, well seeming this is Football forum I have not discussed it at all.

 

[robbieando]

Are you a labor man?

So what colour card you be wanting then

Joking aside, I'm a Liberal man

Lets back up a minute.

What I said is "I think you will find that after this investigation there will be a review of the processes ASADA take."

I haven't called for a review, I said I think you find there will be review at the end of this.

Personally I don't think there will be. Most of the "issues" have been created by people expecting names and punishments within weeks. ASADA doesn't have to work quickly, heck I even pointed to a former cyclist named in the Lance Armstrong "Reasoned Finding" Report from USADA who admitted his guilt to ASADA in late November and is STILL waiting to hear what his punishment will be.

Just think of that, the fact they have matters already in their system and then they get handed the ACC report which they then have to investigate, two days after the AFL hands them the Essendon matter. At least the government has given funding to a further 10 new ASADA investigators today. That will help things, but to think it wasn't going to be anything but a slow process is the issue here.

Lets back up again.

I haven't claimed to speak on behalf of any organisation. What I said was in relation to the State Police Forces and what they have freely stated in the media. There is no basis for a criminal investigation into the codes or clubs.

As for the parts of the investigation relating to organized crime and exporting/importing drugs, well seeming this is Football forum I have not discussed it at all.

The crime part has nothing to do with this forum until such time that it godforbid it does. But the report is in regards to the link between organised crime and sport. Now that could be down at your local level (something the report does cover) but doesn't hide from.

Personally I believe there has been too much misinformation out there in regards to what ASADA can and can't do. Most of it what they can't do. Also doesn't help when the Shark perform their own independent investigation headed by a former CEO of ASADA. Gives the report good weight but many people then think this is a report from ASADA itself.

Hence all hell brakes loose

 

[Davo23]

If you think this is Political exercise then god help us all. That is the biggest cop out of all time. Where is the believed gain? I just don't understand the thinking behind this train of thought. Just because people want answers doesn't mean answers are available nor legally available for that matter. As for the idea of presumption of innocence, who's presumption has been breeched? Maybe that's why there are two versions of the ACC report and ADASA have rules regarding what their members can say and those who front them.

But the ACC and ADASA aren't the problem they are following the guidelines set. It's the miss reporting from the clubs and peak bodies that are causing the bigger problems.
.

I know I should leave this alone, but the stuff you write is so naive, it could have been written by the Sports Minister!

The ACC is a statutory government body, which investigates crime, particularly crime which impacts at the federal level, or which goes across state lines. It investigates, finds information and sometimes finds evidence, then passes that on to the Federal or state police for charges to be laid.

As a government body spending millions of tax dollars, it has to justify its existence. It therefore has a very active Media Centre which distributes information to the Media at large. If you go to their website, you will see many self-congratulatory stories of arrests, charges, and convictions.

The Police Minister led the way at the press conference. It was called to announce the apparent crime-ridden state of Australian sport, but it was just a publicity exercise. It tarred every sportsman with the same brush. The ACC clearly doesn't have much evidence of criminal activity, as there would have been charges laid well before now.

However, it has served its purpose as a major distraction for the government.

There is a section of the ACC charter which says that the ACC must not disclose anything which could prejudice the reputation of a person or prejudice the fair trial of a person who has been or may be charged with an offence. They haven't technically breached this section, but they've tarnished every sportman and woman.

It would be difficult for any sportman who is now charged to have a fair trial when the whole world thinks they are guilty.

What a crime body does when a criminal offence is alleged, is this:
1. Investigate and find evidence;
2. Issue charges against the person;
3. Go to trial

At present we are only at stage 1 - no person has yet been charged. It is only when you get past stage 3, and a person is actually found guilty that the ACC should even comment. And that's a long way off.

And by that time, the election will be over, and Julia (or one of the other losers we call "politicians") will reign once more!

And I've got to go and do some work - those invoices don't write themselves!

 

[storm fan]

After NRL pressure to hurry up ASADA's anti-doping officiers almost double.

THE federal government has thrown 10 additional anti-doping investigators at the ASADA doping inquiry - but warned the NRL it must ensure clubs such as Cronulla fully co-operate if they want the matter quickly resolved.
Sports Minister Kate Lundy last night told NRL chief executive Dave Smith and chairman John Grant the embattled Cronulla club had not provided access to any of its players so far, and only some coaching staff members in the past week.
Five of the six clubs named in the Australian Crime Commission report had allowed ASADA to provide a general briefing to players about their rights - but the Sharks inexplicably opted against it.
"ASADA has explained to the NRL that they have at least 10 additional investigators on standby," a spokesman for Senator Lundy said last night. "This will bring ASADA's investigative team to a total of 22 staff. The most important thing now is that the clubs co-operate with ASADA so that these investigations can conclude as quickly as possible."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...spped-up-inquiry/story-e6frexnr-1226596744214

Mod Note: Please put a headline that is reflective of a) the headline from the article and b) body of text

 

[robbieando]

They haven't technically breached this section, but they've tarnished every sportman and woman.

Fair enough if thats your belief. If matter go far enough then they have avenues of appeal if your concerns are valid and want to take them further.

It would be difficult for any sportman who is now charged to have a fair trial when the whole world thinks they are guilty.

Most of the criminal matters that will come from the ACC report will not be sportsmen and women, but members of the public. The issue of a fair trial will come down to the level the matter is heard and even then they still have the option of appeal like everyone else.

But the major issue facing sportsmen and women is if they are charged with drug offenses by ASADA, those matters don't have the avenue of our legal system, just review and then CAS.

 

[Aucklander]

I don't know where the hell I was when news of the calves blood broke a while ago, but bugger me that's pretty screwed up.

 

[Andrew Mc]

I don't know where the hell I was when news of the calves blood broke a while ago, but bugger me that's pretty screwed up.

Well, it sounds bad, but it's just a filtered extract. They don't just sacrifice a calf, draw some blood, and inject it .

 

[bunsen burner]

Are Cronulla going to shut down if this goes further? I know they have always struggled financially.

Highly unlikely.

The Sutherland Shire market is too important for the NRL not to prop them up with loans. In the short term they are rooted. No sponsors, no money to begin with, and the possibility of them being sued by half their squad.

There's 200k people in Sutherland Shire which is both a League and Soccer stronhold. Shut down the League team and there's a good chance the NSL willl move in. The NRL have a billion bucks and will be forced to use it. Furthermore, the NRL have a TV agreement and need 9 games per week. The NRL won't jeopardise this.

Going foward the Sharks have an approved DA for a development - high rise unit blocks, shops, cafes etc. If they pull it off they will possibly become the richest club in the League. This isn't without risk though - developments are notoriously risky. Some hit pay dirt, some go bust.

Once it's built, be ready for more bogans to lob into Cronulla. This will be an area for 20-30 yo tattoo'd bogans from the western suburbs. No doubt they will all look like Todd Carney.

 

[bunsen burner]

Typical NRL fan:

"Why are Cronulla getting targeted? This all started with the AFL, why aren't they being targeted? This is unfair! And why are the AFL getting favorable treatment?

Some home truths:

1. Cronulla are being targeted because they broke ranks and there is a snitch. It's been obvious from the outset that ASADA don't have evidence and are waiting for people to snitch. Well Elkin decided to look after himself in front of everyone else and snitched. This is what ASADA are looking for. No one at Essendon has broken ranks yet. In a nutshell this is why the Sharks are being investigated closely and not other clubs.

2. Furthermore, Irvine and the board broke ranks and sacrificed 4 staff members to save their own skins. Very very poor leadership. And to top it off he them accused his own club of using equine steroids. The guy is a self serving muppet and at least he had the decency to resign. More people from the board need to resign as well.

3. I keep hearing people say "but it started with Essendon". It didn't start with Essendon, it started with Manly. This whole thing is about Dank and the only clubs investigated are the ones he came into contact with, Manly being the first I believe. Essendon only broke the story because "allegedly" Demetriou gave them a heads up. He they only came clean as a damage control strategy. Demetriou legally was not allowed to do this but it is likely he did. Actions of a smart operator (I'm no fan btw). We can probably forgive David Smith as he hadn't even started yet, and had no close relationship where he could ring up a CEO and leak the news, and advise to get on the front foot. Probably too hard with 6 clubs.

4. No doubt the AFL and Essendon got together and worked out a strategy: say nothing because they have nothing. Don't break ranks. Sit tight, let ASADA do their investigation, and we'll deal with it only when we know what they come up with. Cronulla on the other hand have immediately fractured and buckled, and they're jumping over themselves to save themselves.

Now I see Jason Stevens jumping on a ticket to challenge the board. Don't get me wrong, this board has to go for how they've handled this issue, but when will the NRL learn they need kings of industry running their footy teams and not favourite sons? This is not the channel 9 cricket commentary panel. Football is big business and very competitive.

I want the truth to come out whether it be an NRL or AFL club, but the way business people from the AFL and NRL handle themselves is chalk and cheese. Damian Irvine FTL.

 

[storm fan]

I don't know where the hell I was when news of the calves blood broke a while ago, but bugger me that's pretty screwed up.

It sounded weird a few years ago when we found out about it. But it's a non-story really.

Highly unlikely.

The Sutherland Shire market is too important for the NRL not to prop them up with loans. In the short term they are rooted. No sponsors, no money to begin with, and the possibility of them being sued by half their squad.

There's 200k people in Sutherland Shire which is both a League and Soccer stronhold. Shut down the League team and there's a good chance the NSL willl move in. The NRL have a billion bucks and will be forced to use it. Furthermore, the NRL have a TV agreement and need 9 games per week. The NRL won't jeopardise this.

I doubt the A-League would put in a Cronulla team into the competition (that's already NSW heavy) just because the Sharks fold, if they fold.

While the market is something the NRL wouldn't want to lose there are some things to consider that would make losing Cronulla not a bleak as you suggest.

1) In the area, the sporting market share is pretty much 50% Cronulla, 50% St George Illawarra.
2) If Cronulla fold, St George Illawarra already covers the terrtiory with considerable support from the area. Sure the Cronulla fans would never support the saints but over time and with generations the kids of Cronulla fans are likely to or go for another team.

But overall, I do agree its highly unlikely they will fold.

Typical NRL fan:

"Why are Cronulla getting targeted? This all started with the AFL, why aren't they being targeted? This is unfair! And why are the AFL getting favorable treatment?

Some home truths:

1. Cronulla are being targeted because they broke ranks and there is a snitch. It's been obvious from the outset that ASADA don't have evidence and are waiting for people to snitch. Well Elkin decided to look after himself in front of everyone else and snitched. This is what ASADA are looking for. No one at Essendon has broken ranks yet. In a nutshell this is why the Sharks are being investigated closely and not other clubs.

2. Furthermore, Irvine and the board broke ranks and sacrificed 4 staff members to save their own skins. Very very poor leadership. And to top it off he them accused his own club of using equine steroids. The guy is a self serving muppet and at least he had the decency to resign. More people from the board need to resign as well.

3. I keep hearing people say "but it started with Essendon". It didn't start with Essendon, it started with Manly. This whole thing is about Dank and the only clubs investigated are the ones he came into contact with, Manly being the first I believe. Essendon only broke the story because "allegedly" Demetriou gave them a heads up. He they only came clean as a damage control strategy. Demetriou legally was not allowed to do this but it is likely he did. Actions of a smart operator (I'm no fan btw). We can probably forgive David Smith as he hadn't even started yet, and had no close relationship where he could ring up a CEO and leak the news, and advise to get on the front foot. Probably too hard with 6 clubs.

4. No doubt the AFL and Essendon got together and worked out a strategy: say nothing because they have nothing. Don't break ranks. Sit tight, let ASADA do their investigation, and we'll deal with it only when we know what they come up with. Cronulla on the other hand have immediately fractured and buckled, and they're jumping over themselves to save themselves.

Now I see Jason Stevens jumping on a ticket to challenge the board. Don't get me wrong, this board has to go for how they've handled this issue, but when will the NRL learn they need kings of industry running their footy teams and not favourite sons? This is not the channel 9 cricket commentary panel. Football is big business and very competitive.

I want the truth to come out whether it be an NRL or AFL club, but the way business people from the AFL and NRL handle themselves is chalk and cheese. Damian Irvine FTL.

Happy that's off your chest? I'm glad you could reply to the typical NRL fans out there despite me being surrounded by them myself and never hearing any of this. A lot of this opinion so I won't point out bits and pieces to reply to but this involves more than just one AFL club. 3 AFL clubs have been named as under question due to Dank. I've also heard that up to 9 AFL culd be under investigation.

But your point that the AFL has handled this better than the NRL is correct ... for now. Time will tell what the best way to face this.

The AFL has taken its traditional say little and hopefully it'll go away line. While the NRL is once again opening it up and being transparent (as much as possible under the law)

 

[bunsen burner]

It sounded weird a few years ago when we found out about it. But it's a non-story really.

I doubt the A-League would put in a Cronulla team into the competition (that's already NSW heavy) just because the Sharks fold, if they fold.

The Sutherland Shire is Australia's biggest soccer area. Hypothetically if the Sharks did fold (they won't) then they'd be incompetent not to put an A-League team in.

While the market is something the NRL wouldn't want to lose there are some things to consider that would make losing Cronulla not a bleak as you suggest.

1) In the area, the sporting market share is pretty much 50% Cronulla, 50% St George Illawarra.
2) If Cronulla fold, St George Illawarra already covers the terrtiory with considerable support from the area. Sure the Cronulla fans would never support the saints but over time and with generations the kids of Cronulla fans are likely to or go for another team.

200k people in The Shire. I'd suggest the split would be 60% Sharks, 40% other. That's a lot of supporters to piss off. And you are right, most of that 60% wouldn't support the Dragons. I'd suggest given the NRLs weak supporter base, many would stop following the sport. The NRL has die hard fans like any other sport, but underneath their are a lot of people who support League and support a team just because they grew up with it, and are quite indifferent to the sport.

Happy that's off your chest? I'm glad you could reply to the typical NRL fans out there despite me being surrounded by them myself and never hearing any of this.

You calling me a liar? Given in Sydney no one really talks about footy around the water cooler like they do in AFL states, I haven't heard a lot of it. But what I have heard, is that same message. And I listen to MMM every morning and it's constantly brought up by Johns, Geyer etc, as well from callers. It's all over the papers as well.

Not sure what your agenda is but you know as well as I do that it's true.

But your point that the AFL has handled this better than the NRL is correct ... for now. Time will tell what the best way to face this.

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face?

The AFL has taken its traditional say little and hopefully it'll go away line.

More to the point: say little and don't break ranks until we know what we're in for. The smart and professional way to handle it.

The Sharks have all acted in self interest at the expense of everyone else. The board has sacked 4 people clearly out of self interest. They didn't have the club or supporters interest at heart, they wanted to save their jobs and reputations.

While the NRL is once again opening it up and being transparent (as much as possible under the law)

Ahahaha transparent. Jumped over each other to throw each other under the bus first. Transparency was hardly their motivation.

 

[storm fan]

The Sutherland Shire is Australia's biggest soccer area. Hypothetically if the Sharks did fold (they won't) then they'd be incompetent not to put an A-League team in.

Can't seeing it happening.

200k people in The Shire. I'd suggest the split would be 60% Sharks, 40% other. That's a lot of supporters to piss off. And you are right, most of that 60% wouldn't support the Dragons. I'd suggest given the NRLs weak supporter base, many would stop following the sport. The NRL has die hard fans like any other sport, but underneath their are a lot of people who support League and support a team just because they grew up with it, and are quite indifferent to the sport.

That may be your opinion. However I have worked/lived in the area. It's 50/50 Sharks/Dragons.

You calling me a liar?

Wouldn't dream of it.

Given in Sydney no one really talks about footy around the water cooler like they do in AFL states, I haven't heard a lot of it. But what I have heard, is that same message. And I listen to MMM every morning and it's constantly brought up by Johns, Geyer etc, as well from callers. It's all over the papers as well.

Not sure what your agenda is but you know as well as I do that it's true.

Well there is your problem. You are taking a view off of the typical NRL fan of a Radio call in show. Here is a hint, the typical NRL fans don't call into these shows.

I've worked half my life in Sydney, and half in Melbourne/Adelaide. There is just as much "talkin footy around the water coolers" in Sydney as there is in Melbourne/Adelaide. The biggest difference of course is I've seen anyone actually hang around a water cooler. Usually happens in board rooms and out on site.

Not sure how you can say that with a straight face?

Easy to say anything that's true with a straight face.

More to the point: say little and don't break ranks until we know what we're in for. The smart and professional way to handle it.

Smart? Yes. Professional? debatable.

The Sharks have all acted in self interest at the expense of everyone else. The board has sacked 4 people clearly out of self interest. They didn't have the club or supporters interest at heart, they wanted to save their jobs and reputations.

Perhaps, however the way the AFL has handled the issue is also a form of self interest.

Ahahaha transparent. Jumped over each other to throw each other under the bus first. Transparency was hardly their motivation.

You are getting mixed up between the two different entities of the Cronulla Sharks and the NRL.

 

[bunsen burner]

Can't seeing it happening.

You must have misread what I said.

That may be your opinion. However I have worked/lived in the area. It's 50/50 Sharks/Dragons.

I've lived in Sutherland Shire for 15 years. Pretty sure I have more of clue than you.

I've worked half my life in Sydney, and half in Melbourne/Adelaide. There is just as much "talkin footy around the water coolers" in Sydney as there is in Melbourne/Adelaide. The biggest difference of course is I've seen anyone actually hang around a water cooler. Usually happens in board rooms and out on site.

The "water cooler" is a figure of speech. You weren't meant to take it literally.

And you are seriously delusional if you think there's as much interest in NRL in Sydney as there is AFL in AFL states.

Smart? Yes. Professional? debatable.

Not sure if you have a real understanding of just how dodgy corporate politics is?

Perhaps, however the way the AFL has handled the issue is also a form of self interest.

Of course it is. But they handled it (so far as a group). The NRL were unable to contain the Sharks. League has a history of fractured relationships. Everyone stuck the boot into Gallop for being reactionary but what else could he do? Running the AFL is a walk in the park compared to running the NRL.

 

[storm fan]

You must have misread what I said.

Can't see it happening with or without the Sharks existence

I've lived in Sutherland Shire for 15 years. Pretty sure I have more of clue than you.

So you are still new to the area. welcome.

The "water cooler" is a figure of speech. You weren't meant to take it literally.

Obviously, you don't recognise a little bit of cheek when you see it?

And you are seriously delusional if you think there's as much interest in NRL in Sydney as there is AFL in AFL states.

1) Sydney is not a state. So any comparison of a city with a state would be a flawed comparison.

2) if we are talking Sydney v Melbourne or Sydney v Adelaide or NSW v VIC or NSW v SA etc. I would suggest you background and own personal experience has you seeing it that way.

3) I'm a born and bread product of an so-called AFL state.

I would say your back ground is probably preventing you from seeing it.

Not sure if you have a real understanding of just how dodgy corporate politics is?

I understand it fine. Do I agree with it or even accept it as moral? no.

Of course it is. But they handled it (so far as a group). The NRL were unable to contain the Sharks. League has a history of fractured relationships. Everyone stuck the boot into Gallop for being reactionary but what else could he do? Running the AFL is a walk in the park compared to running the NRL.

No is one arguing with you. But the AFL got its house into order 30 years ago. The NRL got its house in order 13 months ago. David Gallop was rightfully re-active, Dave Smith and the ARLC commission has shown, already in their short time, what a pro-active Rugby League corporate organisation is.

 

[bunsen burner]

The rest of your shit is petty and I don't see a point in squabbling over semantics. Let's talk about real issues. And before I start, this is no troll, or attempt to rub your nose in anything. My observations are well thought out and genuine. Please debate without cracking the shits.

No is one arguing with you. But the AFL got its house into order 30 years ago. The NRL got its house in order 13 months ago. David Gallop was rightfully re-active, Dave Smith and the ARLC commission has shown, already in their short time, what a pro-active Rugby League corporate organisation is.

Smith has been good but it's only a matter of time.

Here's what League people just don't understand:

1. There is no magic wand. It's not realistic to think League will come anywhere close to the AFL (in the near future) with regards to revenues and popularity.
2. The League fraternity were dirty on Gallop for being reactive. They just couldn't understand why League was miles behind AFL. It's only a matter of time before Smith gets the same treatment. League for the most part is run by men with working class values. It's all about a "fair go" and "he deserves it" rather than professional business practice. Just look at how Cronulla have capitulated over the PED affair.

How long will it be before and ex League personality is not happy and starts attacking from within?

3. I keep hearing League types say League is the world's best game. Subjectively, for these individuals it is. Objectively, it's not. League is one dimensional and more importantly has limited contested ball. Crash and bash from 3 meters away isn't everyone's cup of tea. One on one contested ball gets more bums on seats. (don't make me show you the figures). The League fraternity love to make excuses as to why the AFL is superior. Sure, the NRL have traditionally had bad management but at the end of the day the product is lacking. League people will never admit this (and fair enough because they love the game). So again, what it comes down to is blaming the CEO and descending into in fighting over inferior results. Just read the Tele. Every single day they bitch and moan about the AFL.

4. The TV rights. Great move by Smith. But let's dissect this realistically. The NRL doesn't have any live free to air games in Sydney, and certainly not much air time outside League heartland (NSW, QLD). They had to compromise and give this up to get the $1b. They made the right decision. They just needed to take the cash and sort the rest out next time. Apples to apples they didn't even get close to what the AFL got. The AFL got $1.4b, 9 lives games a week, free to air in NSW and QLD.

So what will Smith do? I know what he should do: spend the money on grass roots league in League heartland (NSW and QLD). Maintain the territory that it owns. Expand into existing stronholds (Ipswich, Central Coast). Next TV rights, go for more TV rights. Try to bridge the gap between the AFL and NRL.

What do the League fraternity want? They all want whats best for themselves which is not necessarily what is best for the game. The players want pay rises FFS. Tell them to go jump.

5. Expansion. Perth? Adelaide? Delusional shit right there. Sure it will get another game per week and increase TV rights, but can the NRL prop up a club in and AFL city for 20+ years? I doubt it. The easiest way to increase that TV money is by new clubs in League strongholds like SE Qld and Central Coast. Shore up this round, spend on grass roots, go for the big money and expansion next TV rights.

6. Cultural marketing. let's hope he shamelessly copies as many of the AFL ideas as possible (let's face it, the AFL do most of it better). They finally bit the bullet and dumped that stupid McIntyre finals system, Dally M is getting up to scratch (League players have stopped wearing jeans), but there's plenty more they should be lifting from the AFL. The commentators for a start. Need to start copying the AFL media, i.e. passes to Jarryd Hayne the Dally M medalist" or "Cooper Cronk the Churshill medalist". The AFL media put players on pedestals. At least Buzz is copying Mike Sheahan's top 50.


I'll be interested to see if Smith can keep the NRL "unions" at bay when they realise that the NRL won't be like the AFL overnight? The criticism will sink in, then different groups with different agendas will start inserting pressure........

It's a tough tough job and if Smith can fend off the inevitable critics and make the right decisions for the long term, then he can put them in a good spot in 5 years time.

 

[Aucklander]

The rest of your shit is petty and I don't see a point in squabbling over semantics. Let's talk about real issues. And before I start, this is no troll, or attempt to rub your nose in anything. My observations are well thought out and genuine. Please debate without cracking the shits.

Your observations are out of line in this thread. Keep it on topic, which is about the current drugs issue surrounding the Cronulla Football Club and in the NRL. If you want to start a thread on ways to improve the standing of the NRL and Rugby league in general, then by all means do.

 

[bunsen burner]

Given Storm fan wants to talk about the semantics of state v city, and the semantics around the use of the word water cooler, I thought I'd allow the thread to evolve.

At the end of the day that knob Irvine and his board threw other people under the bus to save their arses. As did Elkin. Asada have no real proof and seek to gain it via testimony. Not sure how a guy allegedly fit enough to run a football club couldn't see this and instructed his club to sit tight, say nothing, and let ASADA investigate?

Now people are talking and the more doubt around who is saying what, the more likely that people talk.

Don't get me wrong, I want the truth to come out, and anyone guilty of doping or involvement in systematic doping be penalised accordingly. But to the people who think Cronulla are being unfairly targeted - they brought it upon themselves.

 

[Aucklander]

Given Storm fan wants to talk about the semantics of state v city, and the semantics around the use of the word water cooler, I thought I'd allow the thread to evolve.

At the end of the day that knob Irvine and his board threw other people under the bus to save their arses. As did Elkin. Asada have no real proof and seek to gain it via testimony. Not sure how a guy allegedly fit enough to run a football club couldn't see this and instructed his club to sit tight, say nothing, and let ASADA investigate?

Now people are talking and the more doubt around who is saying what, the more likely that people talk.

Don't get me wrong, I want the truth to come out, and anyone guilty of doping or involvement in systematic doping be penalised accordingly. But to the people who think Cronulla are being unfairly targeted - they brought it upon themselves.

I don't disagree much with what you say other than the thread evolving. It won't.

 

[robbieando]

I can only support what AM has said - keep it on topic and don't use this as a thread for AFL vs NRL. Warnings were issued already about this. Ignoring or not reading it isn't a excuse.