Cronulla. Pride

[ROB48]

Do you have even the slightest hint of a source to back up that sort of allegation?

In the context of the discussion I showed that 4 of the 5 children that were involved in the DVD have refused to accept disipline and have moved school. Do you have children and do you think that 4 out of 5 not accepting disipline of their children is just normal?

Did you even read the link that I put forward showing this?

THE parents of four Granville Boys High students featured in an internet race hate video have pulled their sons out of the school rather than allow them to be disciplined, with two of the boys indicating they want to attend an Islamic college instead.

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT OR DO YOU REQUIRE FURTHER EXPLANATION?

 

[Mr Q]

In the context of the discussion I showed that 4 of the 5 children that were involved in the DVD have refused to accept disipline and have moved school. Do you have children and do you think that 4 out of 5 not accepting disipline of their children is just normal?

Fair enough, but that only says that four out of these five don't accept it - you're linking that to them being Muslim. And quite frankly, from what I've heard over time, that sort of number wouldn't surprise me at all in any group. The sorts of kids that cause trouble in schools are exactly the same sorts that have parents that just don't care, and who will take the easy option.

Kids who's parents will (and can) discipline them - or allow discipline from elsewhere - usually don't misbehave at anywhere near the level of those that don't.

 

[mantis]

The parents probably didn't want them missing out on 4 weeks of school, with the threat of expulsion at the end of their suspensions, that's what most parents would do.

 

[stompie]

I disagree. Humans have many flaws. A person has flaws. People have flaws. Of course, what exactly a 'flaw' is will be determined by the beholder.

I disagree. I think the flaw will be determined by the aim that needs to be achieved. For example, aggression might be a flaw in a social worker, but it would have been an asset for a gladiator. Blind obedience might be a flaw in a marketer, but it is an asset in a soldier.

Disagree 100%. This is where all the problems lie. "I am right, so if you disagree, you must therefore be wrong". Obviously, opinions on issues will differ between groups, and you will think that you are 'right' in your interpretation of the issue, but to view your answer as 'superior' undermines alternate views, and leads to conflict.

So you never thought Liberal is superior to Labor, or vice versa? A superior group should be able to change, and consider alternative points of views. If it didn’t it would have trouble maintaining its superiority.

Not necessarily. A leader of a group can mislead people to go down a path which they are unaware. This would suggest a flaw on behalf of the leader and the followers.

Another problem could arise when a group chose to go into a direction that will ultimately lead in another group's destruction, or chooses to go there in a fashion that will lead to conflict with other groups, even if they are not necessarily a part of the destination.

I like the general gist of what you are saying, but there is more to it than that.

Agree mainly with you here. A leader might not always go in the right direction. Perhaps this is because they have incomplete information. Alternatively, they may be unwilling or unable to articulate their true motivations to themselves thus make a poor decision. For example, John Howard might be hanging on because he is driven by a desire for a place in history, not because he believes he is the best man to help the Liberal Party, but he will justify to himself that he is the best man.

Welcome to democracy baby. I for one would not want to live in a society that had 'one goal'.

If you have too many goals you never achieve anything. As an individual, you need to prioritize, and as a group, you need to prioritize. Balance is importance, but ultimately too many options often result in people doing nothing.

I am disappointed you had to throw left-wingers into that list though. There are plenty who are beyond reason, but there are just as many who are from the Right. Religious right groups are one who especially tend to focus on the actions of others. Political orientation has nothing to do with it. Generally, these issues will rise from a flaw in character rather than ideology.

Look at a football game. The teams that play the man, not the ball, inevitably lose. Look at the intellectual world. All change, and social progress comes from right-wingers because they have constructive thinking. The left-wing is an ideological point of opposition, so they never actually produce any ideas at all. Scroll through the posts by left wingers. Everything is an insult, or saying ‘two wrongs don’t make a right’ or ‘I sense a double standard’ or ‘that’s racist!’. You don’t actually get any ideas from them at all. Not so from the right. They do produce ideas. Admittedly, the right also opposes things, but they may than compensate for their opposition with ideas, and no matter how bad the idea is, anyone that produces one will have more influence than someone who doesn’t produce any.

 

[ROB48]

Fair enough, but that only says that four out of these five don't accept it - you're linking that to them being Muslim. And quite frankly, from what I've heard over time, that sort of number wouldn't surprise me at all in any group. The sorts of kids that cause trouble in schools are exactly the same sorts that have parents that just don't care, and who will take the easy option.

Kids who's parents will (and can) discipline them - or allow discipline from elsewhere - usually don't misbehave at anywhere near the level of those that don't.

"Do you have even the slightest hint of a source to back up that sort of allegation?"

That's what you asked me when you queried whatI said earlier, I could ask you the same thing. Have you got any kids?

 

[ROB48]

The parents probably didn't want them missing out on 4 weeks of school, with the threat of expulsion at the end of their suspensions, that's what most parents would do.

So you think the parents would feel that this matter is so trivial that it didn't warrant discipline, that the best way to handle it would be to stick your head in the sand and go somewhere else.

Doesn’t that say to the child that they can do whatever they want and that you will let them do it without having to suffer the consequences?

Prey tell what other school would want them if they were aware of their behavior?

Is this how you would handle it just move them to avoid the consequences and what sort of message do you think it would send to your kids?

Isn’t this issue a little more important than a few weeks lost from school?

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

On topic, anyone who lived in East Brunswick / Northcote area of Melbourne in the early 1980s would know about the viciousness and brutality of Lebanese gangs.
The frequent clashes in Lygon St between the Lebanese Tigers and Italian Stallians were one thing - and the fact that anyone walking alone on the eastern side of the northern part of Lygon St towards Coburg was ' fair game ' to the constant marauding gangs of Lebanese, was enough to make anyone regard Arab looking people with suspicion.

They both feared the OAKLEIGH WOGS

 

[mantis]

So you think the parents would feel that this matter is so trivial that it didn't warrant discipline, that the best way to handle it would be to stick your head in the sand and go somewhere else.

Doesn’t that say to the child that they can do whatever they want and that you will let them do it without having to suffer the consequences?

Prey tell what other school would want them if they were aware of their behavior?

Is this how you would handle it just move them to avoid the consequences and what sort of message do you think it would send to your kids?

Isn’t this issue a little more important than a few weeks lost from school?

It was more than a few weeks, they faced expelsion after that, so what's the point, may as well find a new school, as they were going to have to anyway.

What about those werribee kids, some of their parents did the same thing, or is it only muslim kids you want to see punished for making hateful videos, especially when the muslim kids didn't set people on fire?