Cronulla. Pride

[stompie]

Perhaps. Although AFL teams still have their ethic ties. Dont make me post the Richmond grog squad chant about Carlton .

I don't know much about league, is it similar to Soccer in that regard?

Not like soccer. Aside from Canterbury, no team really has an ethnic association.
League is basically working class, so it has strong workclass values, and generally attracts physically strong people who have the temperment to match.


In Aussie rules, you have the tough guys, but you also have the little guys, working class, upper class. As a consequence, you get more diversity of people and more diversity of races in Aussie rules.

 

[bunsen burner]

How so?

If you think other Ethnic communities don't commit exactly the same crimes (both now and in the past) then you are the one who is in denial.

Not to the same extent. Just because it happens in all backgrounds doesn't mean it happens on an even ratio. Open your eyes.

 

[bunsen burner]

Not like soccer. Aside from Canterbury, no team really has an ethnic association.
League is basically working class, so it has strong workclass values, and generally attracts physically strong people who have the temperment to match.

Let's not forget the low IQ

One thing I've noticed about Lebs and some other ethnicities is they place great importance on a person's race. Probably comes from living in Europe and ME where countries border other countries and their are many countries within close proximity.

Many of them seem to think each race is some sort of gang that's interested in having a fight. Aussies generally don't think like that. Generally, young Aussie males don't cruise around in gangs (ie their mates) and look for fights with similar groups from different racial backgrounds.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

How are they "copping it"?

have you been watching the news lately. Islam and Lebanese are copping it from all corners. Ive also heard for the past 10 years random polic searches have been occuring in the inner west suburbs on lebs. Yeh they may go to places in big gangs to protect themselves but deep inside they fear what could happen to them if they were alone. Also the ever increasing resentment against them gives them a feeling of paranoia. Thankfully the Lebs I know whether they are blood or mates are all hard working laid back people but still they feel antagonised for the little ********s who act all tough.

Seriously I wouldnt be surprised if one morning you read the headlines saying "Operation Exterminate" where Police and Co raid the suburbs of South West Sydney just to get rid of the troublemakers. The problem with most lebs is that they dont know how to compromise.

But again for what occured in Cronulla was poor. Ive been to Cronulla and Ive felt the air of resentment even if you aint a local. Its a racism fuelling depot and what happened on dec 11 was a build up of anti leb for many years. However morrell brought up a good point. all cultures whether leb australian italian or icelandic there will be a group of men that love to disrespect the opposite sex. Saying lebanese are more prevalent is an overgeneralisation.

 

[morell]

Not to the same extent. Just because it happens in all backgrounds doesn't mean it happens on an even ratio. Open your eyes.

Not to the same extent? Provide evidence that the Lebanese community commits crime at a much greater ratio than other ethnic groups ever have.

Don’t tell me to open my eyes, stop posting with such arrogance. I know there is a problem with Lebanese youths in Sydney.

In Melbourne and Adelaide its all sorts ....

Here are a few examples;

Croats Vs Serbs & Greeks

Article discussing ethnic violence and how wide spread it is.

Government Report on Violence Against Women This discusses some interesting ideas about the affect of culture.

Sudanese Man Rapes Girl

Nightclub Owner Complaining about Vietnamese Violence

More Vietnamese Gang Violence

 

[bunsen burner]

I know there is a problem with Lebanese youths in Sydney.

So what's your problem?

In Melbourne and Adelaide its all sorts ....

Pretty sure this thread has nothing to do with Adelaide and melbourne.

 

[kookadog]

I grew up in Bankstown and had all my schooling there, from 1985 to 1998. The Aussie kids did it tough, and It's impossible to describe how hard it was. I find it hard to think about these days. My mates and I were was bashed and abused, By lebanese muslims, I was told I was a dumb skip, and that Lebs were better than me, and whenever we stood up for ourselves we were bashed. It wasn't just us aussies who copped it, it was the vietnamese and anyone else who wasn't a leb. And no wonder the lebs think they are king ********, they were getting preached to by guys like Shiek Hilaly.

What happened in Cronulla was building for 10 years, All those years of torment from the Lebanese muslims became too much. In my social circles, which spread across a fair demographic, the Lebanese muslims are not liked at all, I've not heard a good word about them, I have heard lots of bad words though. Christian Lebanese on the other hand do it tough because most people confuse them with muslims.

Cronulla will happen again unless their is a dramatic change in the behaviour of these gangs.

 

[stompie]

I grew up in Bankstown and had all my schooling there, from 1985 to 1998. The Aussie kids did it tough, and It's impossible to describe how hard it was. I find it hard to think about these days. My mates and I were was bashed and abused, By lebanese muslims, I was told I was a dumb skip, and that Lebs were better than me, and whenever we stood up for ourselves we were bashed. It wasn't just us aussies who copped it, it was the vietnamese and anyone else who wasn't a leb. And no wonder the lebs think they are king ********, they were getting preached to by guys like Shiek Hilaly.

What happened in Cronulla was building for 10 years, All those years of torment from the Lebanese muslims became too much. In my social circles, which spread across a fair demographic, the Lebanese muslims are not liked at all, I've not heard a good word about them, I have heard lots of bad words though. Christian Lebanese on the other hand do it tough because most people confuse them with muslims.

Cronulla will happen again unless their is a dramatic change in the behaviour of these gangs.

I know the Koreans have been fighting back for years. A few years back there was almost a blue that would have made Cronualla seem like two gentlemen getting together to settle their differences over a cup of tea. The police came across a weapon's cache of samurai swords, baseball bats, knives, and axes on George Street. The Koreans were assembling for a showdown with the Lebs.

You probably didn't hear about it because the media wants to help the whities affirm their non-racist identity by allowing them to show their indignation towards other whites having a go at ethnics. Ethnic on ethnic violence is a spanner in the works for this identity.

 

[FuManchu]

180b.......and its "dips my lid".

180B from perth to Sydney

I'd like to see that.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Not like soccer. Aside from Canterbury, no team really has an ethnic association.
League is basically working class, so it has strong workclass values, and generally attracts physically strong people who have the temperment to match.


In Aussie rules, you have the tough guys, but you also have the little guys, working class, upper class. As a consequence, you get more diversity of people and more diversity of races in Aussie rules.

There is reasonable diversity, for instance alot more people from the islander countries succeed in league as opposed to afl, however generally Baoriginals tend to be better afl players than league players (altho there are many top aboriginal league stars). Definately true re the lack of ethnic association, bar Canterbury.

The working class ties are also slowly fading, what with money making the decisions rather than the tribal aspect post stupor league war

 

[stompie]

There is reasonable diversity, for instance a lot more people from the islander countries succeed in league as opposed to afl, however generally Baoriginals tend to be better afl players than league players (altho there are many top aboriginal league stars). Definately true re the lack of ethnic association, bar C*nterbury.

The working class ties are also slowly fading, what with money making the decisions rather than the tribal aspect post stupor league war

I know at juniour level I think it is about 50 per cent Islander these days. I just meant that it is a game that is suited to big bodies and for one reason or another, these big bodies tend to come from specific ethnic groups and coincide with specific temperments.

I know the working class associations are fading, but the nth shore is definately union, as are the private schools so you don't have that mix of classes. In my old Aussie rules teams, we had tradesmen, as well as lawyers and everthing in between. I don't think you would get that in league.

Incidently, are you a North Shore bears/Bombers player? Did they ever fix up Gore Hill?

 

[Bomber Bears]

I know at juniour level I think it is about 50 per cent Islander these days. I just meant that it is a game that is suited to big bodies and for one reason or another, these big bodies tend to come from specific ethnic groups and coincide with specific temperments.

I know the working class associations are fading, but the nth shore is definately union, as are the private schools so you don't have that mix of classes. In my old Aussie rules teams, we had tradesmen, as well as lawyers and everthing in between. I don't think you would get that in league.

Incidently, are you a North Shore bears/Bombers player? Did they ever fix up Gore Hill?

Nah mate, just a 4th generation north sydney bears fan from wollongong lol. Never achieved much in league either (nice way to put ********house ) altho my dads from the area and played flegg for the bears at one stage so he may know something about it. North sydney is more leaguea as you move further out i guess, asquith etc.

Yeah you only have to look at the best teams in the arive alive cup - endeavour etc and you see they are mainly islander - big strong and fast. Really ********king scary to play against.

Something else with league teams tho - you'll find the vast majority of Cronulla fans are right wing conservatives, while the majority of St George fans are more left wing and liberal (in the little l sense), very noticable considering the big rivalry on the field between these two clubs.

 

[nokiacasio]

The people who were burning the Australian flag were just expressing themselves and there is such things as freedom of expression. This freedom of expression should in theory allow offensive cartoons to be published and it even allows people to masturbate in public if that is what they want.

Violence, on the other hand, is illegal. Rape is illegal, so some of those gang members may be guilty if caught. Even bashing someone because of retaliation is illegal unless it's serious provocation. Still, provocation cannot be against a race. The law considers people as individuals. There are no court cases such as Asians versus Lebanese. That's just silly. What somes of those Cronulla rioters did was go around bashing anyone with Middle-Eastern appearance. This can include virtually anyone, from Italians to Bill Gates with a mild tan. Definitely illegal.

The politicised morons in this country need to put the event into perspective. A few people were punched, a women had her hijab pulled of, BIG DEAL!!!

Anyone heard of Sudan??? 1.5 million Christians killed since 1984, the ethnic cleansing and displacement of Christians in Pakistan?????, the persistent murder of Christians/priest/destruction of churches in Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc etc etc?????????

There is probably a Christian being murded in one of these countries as we speak, yet we even bother talking about Crunulla.

What a joke.

One simple explanation for this is that some things are more entertaining that other things and news media is driven by ratings.

So the Asians and Islanders that were there, they were against multiculturalism as well?

They could be. They could be against the culture of violence and want to establish a monoculture of non-violence (perhaps through violence).

The funny thing that came out of this Cronulla incident, is that us white Australians are viewed as racist for retaliating. And, the Lebanese are viewed as the victims.

Viewed a racist or victims by whom? By you or by someone else? Remember there is no objective perspetive.

You should also be rallying against all protests that turn to violence, I didn't see you posting your outrage at the people at G20....

Silence does not imply support. It could be the result of not being exposed to the story. Perhap a certain news story has a 50% chance of getting a certain person's attention.

Whilst it does annoy me that some rednecks think assimilation means driving a ute, sinking pis s, and going to the footy, other cultures do need to assimilate - but to the changing evolving culture you talk about.

So you think that there should be assimilation but you don't want to assimilate to bogan culture? If you criticize a Lebanese who doesn't assimilate to your culture, how do you differentiate that from a bogan criticizing you maybe because you drive a sedan instead of a ute or maybe because you drink wine instead of beer?

Seriously though, grow up. Seeing the footage brought to mind images that come out of Germany occasionally of the hard (nazi) right. That isn't Australian.

If this behavior is "Nazi" as you describe it and if Australian soldiers fought against the Nazis then this behavior goes against what WWII Australian soldiers fought for, right?

Seriously though grow up,Cronulla was not Kristalnacht

Nazism is the belief by Adolf Hitler that the Aryans (blonde haired blue eyes people from Scandinavia) were superior to all other people and therefore all other people should be exterminated. Hence Jews were exterminated, disabled people were exterminated, etc. The Cronulla rioters probably weren't as powerful or organized or sober as the Nazis but don't you think their intentions were similar?

With the authorities sitting on their hands while a group terrorized the Cronulla area for 3-5 yrs
What do you think was going to happen?

One of the best ways of getting revenge on people who disrespect the law is to disrespect the law yourself by taking the law into your own hands?

Just because it happens all over doesn't mean you should ignore the problem where it's worst.

When my partner goes down the beach she doesn't get leered at and have disgusting remarks made at her by anyone else. I've even been with Lebs when they carry on like this. The way many of them think and act towards Aussie women is just wrong and unacceptible.

Even if Lebanese people are more likely to do this sort of behavior there's little you can do about it. If a group of people has a higher probability of criminal or anti-social behavior, collective punishment sets a dangerous precedent. Should ugly people be collectively punished because ugly people are more likely to commit crime? Should heterosexuals be collectively punished for the same reason? Should non-paraplegic people be collectively punished for the same reason?

Its a racism fuelling depot and what happened on dec 11 was a build up of anti leb for many years. However morrell brought up a good point. all cultures whether leb australian italian or icelandic there will be a group of men that love to disrespect the opposite sex. Saying lebanese are more prevalent is an overgeneralisation.

The issue may not have anything to do with nationality. Maybe these rapists were just raping because they had a high sex drive. That they were Lebanese may have been independent of their sex drive. A person observing the rape and observing the Lebanese nationality of the rapist make come to the conclusion that the Labaneseness causes the rape when it was the sex drive.

This is like seeing Commodore sales increasing and then seeing a ship sinking in the Pacific and then thinking that the Commodore sales increasing caused the ship to sink. Some things may be completely independent but beause of the human tendency to focus on salient things like nationality we have faulty inference.

 

[STC]

I don't usually get into bagging other people's views when it happens here, but I am disgusted that anyone would possibly condone racist violence, it's one thing to retaliate against one man from a rush of blood to the head, but to come out in an organized gang attack makes us as bad as them. The group who r*ped her deserve to be locked away for good, but that does not mean that we should sink to their level. To be proud of them is a national disgrace, and to do something like that is a national disgrace. Cowardly is another word for it. If you have pride for that, then you do not deserve to live in this FREE COUNTRY, this great place where we should be able to be of any culture or religion or race, and not get beaten up on the beaches because of it.

The politicised morons in this country need to put the event into perspective. A few people were punched, a women had her hijab pulled of, BIG DEAL!!!

Anyone heard of Sudan??? 1.5 million Christians killed since 1984, the ethnic cleansing and displacement of Christians in Pakistan?????, the persistent murder of Christians/priest/destruction of churches in Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc etc etc?????????

There is probably a Christian being murded in one of these countries as we speak, yet we even bother talking about Crunulla.

What a joke.

Wow, we should definitely just do whatever we want, as long as there is someone doing worse things than us, we are fine to do it. I am disgusted by what happens in Sudan, but that doesn't mean that we should be comitting violent hate crimes against anyone. We should at least know better, as we are taught to not be intolerant. So if someone kills someone, I should go and bash someone half to death, because it doesn't rate a mention in comparison? Why don't we do that all the time now, because worse things can happen.

What a joke.

 

[Stripes666]

I cannot believe that there are people against this proud act. Sure there were some yobs who got drunk, a minority. The sintiment was weve had enough of these Lebs and were gonna show them that they cant flock to our country and not respect our laws and values.

 

[Mr Q]

I cannot believe that there are people against this proud act. Sure there were some yobs who got drunk, a minority. The sintiment was weve had enough of these Lebs and were gonna show them that they cant flock to our country and not respect our laws and values.

Responding to violence with violence.

Yeah, that's really something to be proud of. If you're insane.

 

[Fire]

I cannot believe that there are people against this proud act. Sure there were some yobs who got drunk, a minority. The sintiment was weve had enough of these Lebs and were gonna show them that they cant flock to our country and not respect our laws and values.

I cannot believe some people consider it a proud act.

 

[Moo]

I cannot believe that there are people against this proud act. Sure there were some yobs who got drunk, a minority. The sintiment was weve had enough of these Lebs and were gonna show them that they cant flock to our country and not respect our laws and values.

OK I've tried to stay out of this as there is nothing new but ....they cant flock to our country and not respect our laws and values

Isn't it illegal to beat up innocent people and when did our values become, if one group attacks ....get payback with someone who is similar?

The guys who beat up the life savers are scum, the guys who got pissed and beat up anyone they felt like are scum.

What really annoys me is the fact they think they speak for all Australians. An embarrasment to our great country ....both groups.

As I say ...if you don't like our multicultural nation - leave ....Leb, Anglo, white, black or brindle.

 

[stompie]

I cannot believe some people consider it a proud act.

I guess they were proud for the same reason that anti-globalisation protesters can trash a car, or spit on someone in a suit and feel proud that they are making a stand against injustice in the world.

Although the protests/riots did damage Australia's reputation around the world, as most of the media coverage used it as an excuse to portray Australians as racists, I did see one article form England that was actually positive. It talked about problems with muslims in England, Holland, Denmark, Cananda and America, and then praised Australians as one of the few nationalities with the courage to bite back.

I guess that the moral of the story is that in a multicultural world, we are going to have to expect that not everyone is going to have the same view about everything; including multiculturlaism.

 

[Hawk Dork]

I did see one article form England that was actually positive. It talked about problems with muslims in England, Holland, Denmark, Cananda and America, and then praised Australians as one of the few nationalities with the courage to bite back.

Was the article by The National Front?

 

[stompie]

Was the article by The National Front?

It was one of the mainstream newspapers. The Times I think.

 

[Fire]

I guess that the moral of the story is that in a multicultural world, we are going to have to expect that not everyone is going to have the same view about everything; including multiculturlaism.

This I can agree with. Racism will always exist, and as a result, so will situations like this. To believe otherwise is fictional Idealism.

But that does not mean that it should not be removed as a social taboo to have race-fuelled riots. Criticise everyone involved, be they lebs or anglos. And criticise anyone who apologises for them.

Intolerance is not to be tolerated.

 

[WA ROO]

Criticise everyone involved, be they lebs or anglos. And criticise anyone who apologises for them.

Anyone that criticised the Lebs was labelled a racist or bigot

 

[Fire]

Anyone that criticised the Lebs was labelled a racist or bigot

By whom?

I have not heard anyone give those labels who criticised those Lebanese who were responsible for the bashings.

I have heard people criticising Lebanese in General, however. And they have been in turn rightfully received criticism for it.

 

[WA ROO]

By whom?

I have not heard anyone give those labels who criticised those Lebanese who were responsible for the bashings.

I have heard people criticising Lebanese in General, however. And they have been in turn rightfully received criticism for it.

Thank you for proving my point