Crowd behaviour at Essendon games

[MaddAdam]

I thought this was an interesting article in Ye Age today:

The trolling is the hardest part. Of being a Bombers fan, that is.

Just try and imagine being one of 50,736 red sash members on Saturday, at the start of a new season, playing against Gold Coast tonight – a new Essendon team but one from a club with a toxic cloud still hanging around. Imagine if they prevail against the Suns.

Now envision the supporters, wound up in the time-honoured tradition of gloating after a big win. Picture them going online and posting a status update supporting the players. Or think simply of a hopeful mass singing "See the Bombers fly up" before the game.

James Doolan, a diehard Bomber from Wyndham Vale, does all of the above – he has done for three years – and then he waits for the abuse. It comes from all quarters.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...ber-fandom-20160324-gnqehw.html#ixzz43tJ3azK9

What/where is "the line" with paying out on Essendon over this, especially at games? It is something I've seen a fair few Bomber fans talking about here.

At one level, none of the major off field dramatic personae save for Doc Reid are still at the club. It was three getting on to four years ago now.

Yet at the same time, every club has off field stuff that gets brought up by opposition fans. You could probably list one or more for every club in the league.

There's also the element that Bomber fans - that said, you can't generalise to ALL fans of any club on this kind of thing - have traditionally not been backwards in coming forwards when it comes to paying out on other clubs and their fans.

Do we say "That's just footy?" or "They can dish it out but they can't cop it back?"

And the Essendon fan base have certainly used games to push their side over the course of the saga - #StandByHird/Back Our Boys signs at games and even The March in a week's time. There's an argument that Bomber fans have been happy to engage in it on their terms at games, so have to cop what's coming back the other way.

And yet, as someone who supports a club that has been routinely - and still is - bagged at games over low membership figures, told we are going to merge/relocate etc, I know full well how tiresome such stuff can be, and that those who engage in the old "Bring up off field stuff to hide from the fact that you're getting done onfield" game tend to be deadshits, so you wonder - do I want to be one of those deadshits in reverse?

At our game last year, early in proceedings, I made some relatively harmless call that referenced the drug stuff. And a little Essendon kid with his face painted and a flag to wave looked around and you could tell that if me and my mates were to continue this, it was going to really have an effect on the little fella.

So I shut my trap and restricted by vastly amusing ongoing commentary to onfield matters only.

At the same time, if sitting in his spot had been a bunch of blokes who I knew would have had no issue being very vocal if the shoe was on the other foot, I would have kept going loud and clear.

So, thoughts? Where's the line of paying out on them?

(I suspect that it is going to be pretty ugly regardless for the Bomber fans, with some games worse than others - West Coast springs to mind)

 

[Munich]

I suspect most people are over it and won't bother, although, theres a fair bogan population at games so..

I'll be more concerned over my club getting a % boost against them, we play them twice so I'm expecting a nice boost for both games.

 

[coryne]

When you come up with s**t such as #standbyhird/Mexican costumes/the rally and march from Fed square then you open yourselves up to a huge amount of criticism.

 

[MaddAdam]

I suspect most people are over it and won't bother, although, theres a fair bogan population at games so..

I'll be more concerned over my club getting a % boost against them, we play them twice so I'm expecting a nice boost for both games.

You would expect most people to be over the Carey/Stevens thing that happened 15 years ago, but that still gets a solid run.

I reckon this year will be pretty tough for them, though in one respect being so shithouse onfield - which they will by and large, though they will put in some good shows - will cause people to go a bit easier.

It would have been really ugly if the AFL Tribunal had stood. I think opposition fans would have been a lot more vitriolic in that case.

 

[Donakebab]

When you come up with s**t such as #standbyhird/Mexican costumes/the rally and march from Fed square then you open yourselves up to a huge amount of criticism.

A vocal minority doesn't make it okay to s**t on the rest of us.

 

[MaddAdam]

When you come up with s**t such as #standbyhird/Mexican costumes/the rally and march from Fed square then you open yourselves up to a huge amount of criticism.

Yep, its hard to go past that.

Also the widespread view among the fans that they were hard done by, CAS was a sham, whatever. If it were a situation where there was a general sense the fan base knew they club had done wrong, they'd copped their whack, time to move on, then bagging them wouldn't make a huge amount of sense.

 

[MaddAdam]

A vocal minority doesn't make it okay to s**t on the rest of us.

This is also a hugely valid point.

Out of interest, how do you react/will you react when opposition fans start it up.

Do you respond/engage? Let it go?

 

[Munich]

You would expect most people to be over the Carey/Stevens thing that happened 15 years ago, but that still gets a solid run.

I reckon this year will be pretty tough for them, though in one respect being so shithouse onfield - which they will by and large, though they will put in some good shows - will cause people to go a bit easier.

It would have been really ugly if the AFL Tribunal had stood. I think opposition fans would have been a lot more vitriolic in that case.

Does it? At North games?

Have never heard it!

 

[Munich]

When you come up with s**t such as #standbyhird/Mexican costumes/the rally and march from Fed square then you open yourselves up to a huge amount of criticism.

Haha excuse me? A march?!

Sweet jesus

 

[NoAFLinmycomp]

I thought this was an interesting article in Ye Age today:



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/t...ber-fandom-20160324-gnqehw.html#ixzz43tJ3azK9

What/where is "the line" with paying out on Essendon over this, especially at games? It is something I've seen a fair few Bomber fans talking about here.

At one level, none of the major off field dramatic personae save for Doc Reid are still at the club. It was three getting on to four years ago now.

Yet at the same time, every club has off field stuff that gets brought up by opposition fans. You could probably list one or more for every club in the league.

There's also the element that Bomber fans - that said, you can't generalise to ALL fans of any club on this kind of thing - have traditionally not been backwards in coming forwards when it comes to paying out on other clubs and their fans.

Do we say "That's just footy?" or "They can dish it out but they can't cop it back?"

And the Essendon fan base have certainly used games to push their side over the course of the saga - #StandByHird/Back Our Boys signs at games and even The March in a week's time. There's an argument that Bomber fans have been happy to engage in it on their terms at games, so have to cop what's coming back the other way.

And yet, as someone who supports a club that has been routinely - and still is - bagged at games over low membership figures, told we are going to merge/relocate etc, I know full well how tiresome such stuff can be, and that those who engage in the old "Bring up off field stuff to hide from the fact that you're getting done onfield" game tend to be deadshits, so you wonder - do I want to be one of those deadshits in reverse?

At our game last year, early in proceedings, I made some relatively harmless call that referenced the drug stuff. And a little Essendon kid with his face painted and a flag to wave looked around and you could tell that if me and my mates were to continue this, it was going to really have an effect on the little fella.

So I shut my trap and restricted by vastly amusing ongoing commentary to onfield matters only.

At the same time, if sitting in his spot had been a bunch of blokes who I knew would have had no issue being very vocal if the shoe was on the other foot, I would have kept going loud and clear.

So, thoughts? Where's the line of paying out on them?

(I suspect that it is going to be pretty ugly regardless for the Bomber fans, with some games worse than others - West Coast springs to mind)

Meh - "drug cheats" is now accurate. No one's fault but their club's, that it's landed in 2016.

If you don't like it, don't go/ watch/ listen/read. Plenty of other things to do/support

 

[Donakebab]

This is also a hugely valid point.

Out of interest, how do you react/will you react when opposition fans start it up.

Do you respond/engage? Let it go?

If it's friendly banter then I'll engage. I'm more than happy to shake an opposition supporters hand after a match if the bants has been quality regardless of the outcome. If it's just some pissed idiot trying to get a rise I normally won't take the bait. Just getting real sick of the shtick that if you're an Essendon supporter you're instantly a kool aid drinker who has agreed with everything that has happened. With someone of the trash people dish up it's almost as if they believe supporters themselves were involved in the program.

 

[replicant]

A vocal minority doesn't make it okay to s**t on the rest of us.

But standing by being a silent majority, makes you irrelevant. If all the other fans see is the vocal minority, and the club STILL not showing any contrition (bomber on 360 potting ASADA agian, Heppell "i've done nothing wrong", Jobe sitting at home polishing his Brownlow), then that's what they will react to.

If the silent majority had stood up to the club, kicked Hird out, demanded that anyone who was involved was out of the club etc... If you had done that, then there would have been some understanding. But as it was, it seems to most observers that the Essendon fans were pretty much along for the ride, and there wasn't really a silent majority at all.

Let's see at the fan march. If a lot of people turn out, then in a way you validate all that you cop. If Hird and the banned players are there, and you march with them, then you're with them.

 

[The 747]

There will be banter about just like there is banter about every club: there's no chance opposition fans will shut up about it.

And there will be flogs who take it too far. And football goes on.

 

[Donakebab]

But standing by being a silent majority, makes you irrelevant. If all the other fans see is the vocal minority, and the club STILL not showing any contrition (bomber on 360 potting ASADA agian, Heppell "i've done nothing wrong", Jobe sitting at home polishing his Brownlow), then that's what they will react to.

If the silent majority had stood up to the club, kicked Hird out, demanded that anyone who was involved was out of the club etc... If you had done that, then there would have been some understanding. But as it was, it seems to most observers that the Essendon fans were pretty much along for the ride, and there wasn't really a silent majority at all.

Let's see at the fan march. If a lot of people turn out, then in a way you validate all that you cop. If Hird and the banned players are there, and you march with them, then you're with them.

Making the assumption that because I'm not part of the vocal minority that I've stood by? I'm a member, I vote at the AGM and I've voiced my opinion many times. Just because I don't hold some hashtag sign up or completely disown the football club I've supported my entire life doesn't make me irrelevant.

 

[MaddAdam]

Does it? At North games?

Have never heard it!

To be fair, it is more at places like this it gets brought up. But at games you still get a lot of the "broke/relocate/at least we won't be dead in three years" stuff.

I think the Essendon drug stuff falls into the same box as that stuff. In reality, I suspect Essendon fans are going to be hearing about the drug stuff for many, many years to come.

 

[Munich]

To be fair, it is more at places like this it gets brought up. But at games you still get a lot of the "broke/relocate/at least we won't be dead in three years" stuff.

I think the Essendon drug stuff falls into the same box as that stuff. In reality, I suspect Essendon fans are going to be hearing about the drug stuff for many, many years to come.

I haven't heard much about that either at games. Where on earth are you sitting?!

And when's this ridiculous march on so I can avoid it if possible?

 

[threesixpio]

I might weirdly enough barrack for them against some opposition teams for the first time in years. Delisted and VFL rejects getting wins is like totally feel good man


I'll store up all my boos for next year when the cheats are back on the park

 

[Muggs]

Hmm I got as far as the first word in that article.

Trolling

IMO the biggest Troll in this whole saga is on the EFC side.

Bruce Francis.

 

[replicant]

Making the assumption that because I'm not part of the vocal minority that I've stood by? I'm a member, I vote at the AGM and I've voiced my opinion many times. Just because I don't hold some hashtag sign up or completely disown the football club I've supported my entire life doesn't make me irrelevant.

Sorry, didn't mean to insult, and re-reading my post it does seem very harsh. Of course you're not irrelevant.

But the public perception of Essendon and it's fans is based on what we see. And from what outsiders see, we've seen nothing but the bad stuff. When i say irrelevant, i mean from a perception point of view. If the club and vocal minority are going to keep this whole arrogant "We are Essendon, we've done nothing wrong, standbyhird" approach going, then you're going to be tarred with the same brush. If you don't actively differentiate yourself from that, then people will simply assume you're part of it.

 

[MaddAdam]

If it's friendly banter then I'll engage. I'm more than happy to shake an opposition supporters hand after a match if the bants has been quality regardless of the outcome. If it's just some pissed idiot trying to get a rise I normally won't take the bait.

Yeah, sounds about the like the best anyone can do.

Just getting real sick of the shtick that if you're an Essendon supporter you're instantly a kool aid drinker who has agreed with everything that has happened.

Absolutely understandable. The problem is if three seats down you've got a kool aid drinker in red and black who responds to a taunt with ""Show me a positive test!" or similar, then it does make it hard for someone like you, and will encourage taunters further.

With someone of the trash people dish up it's almost as if they believe supporters themselves were involved in the program.

Yeah. Though the other side is - and I'm very much not including you in this - so many fans were gloating about The Weaponisation and so on, that opposition fans do have some basis for that view. Limited basis, but it is there.

I am very much trying to walk a mile in Essendon supporters shoes and I really do get that for many, especially people like yourself, and others like say ManWithNoName and Lance Uppercut the generalising that all Essendon supporters are sombrero wearing Hirdashians must be deeply frustrating.

There's also the element I mentioned in my OP - <insert Helen Lovejoy pic here> - but won't someone think of the kids?

You can say all is fair in love and footy sledging if it is all adults who can fend for themselves, but any footy game has lots of kids there, and if there's some eight year old there who was all of five when it began, then paying out gets a bit shitty. Obviously anyone who pays out on an eight year old at the footy over anything is scum, but you can be making the calls very much directed at "the game" if you know what I mean - "Hur hur, maybe some TB4 woulda helped you kick that Daniher hur hur!" - but if you're doing that in front of a kid and they have no choice but to hear it, then, hmmmm, hardly great. Maybe once in a game but going broken record is pretty crap.

 

[Donakebab]

Sorry, didn't mean to insult, and re-reading my post it does seem very harsh. Of course you're not irrelevant.

But the public perception of Essendon and it's fans is based on what we see. And from what outsiders see, we've seen nothing but the bad stuff. When i say irrelevant, i mean from a perception point of view. If the club and vocal minority are going to keep this whole arrogant "We are Essendon, we've done nothing wrong, standbyhird" approach going, then you're going to be tarred with the same brush. If you don't actively differentiate yourself from that, then people will simply assume you're part of it.

So how are we meant to differentiate ourselves, more hashtags and signs? Yeah they go down real well. I think the fact that there have only ever been a few hundred of those dumb signs held up at games with tens of thousands of people in attendance shows pretty clearly that the majority aren't the hard lined delusional believers. Even then there would be those in the crowd just waving s**t around to go with the flow. Your whole idea on this just supports my original post.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

I might weirdly enough barrack for them against some opposition teams for the first time in years. Delisted and VFL rejects getting wins is like totally feel good man


I'll store up all my boos for next year when the cheats are back on the park

I actually reckon you might be correct, in that it is likely to be brought up more next year than this year. I mean, what's the point in yelling at guys like Cooney, Goddard, Simpkin, M Brown etc calling them drugs cheats?? None.

Next year, when the likes of Watson or Heppell etc are running around, I'm sure it will get more of a run then, especially if Watson retains his Brownlow.

I'm not a big one for yelling out too much at the opposition during games. Will occasionally, but it's pretty rare.

Like most stuff at the footy, if it's funny and it good natured sort of stuff, then I don't really care what gets said

 

[MaddAdam]

I haven't heard much about that either at games. Where on earth are you sitting?!

And when's this ridiculous march on so I can avoid it if possible?

Rd2 when they play the Dees at the G. I'm tempted to go down for a Captain Cook lol.

 

[Donakebab]

Yeah, sounds about the like the best anyone can do.



Absolutely understandable. The problem is if three seats down you've got a kool aid drinker in red and black who responds to a taunt with ""Show me a positive test!" or similar, then it does make it hard for someone like you, and will encourage taunters further.



Yeah. Though the other side is - and I'm very much not including you in this - so many fans were gloating about The Weaponisation and so on, that opposition fans do have some basis for that view. Limited basis, but it is there.

I am very much trying to walk a mile in Essendon supporters shoes and I really do get that for many, especially people like yourself, and others like say ManWithNoName and Lance Uppercut the generalising that all Essendon supporters are sombrero wearing Hirdashians must be deeply frustrating.

There's also the element I mentioned in my OP - <insert Helen Lovejoy pic here> - but won't someone think of the kids?

You can say all is fair in love and footy sledging if it is all adults who can fend for themselves, but any footy game has lots of kids there, and if there's some eight year old there who was all of five when it began, then paying out gets a bit shitty. Obviously anyone who pays out on an eight year old at the footy over anything is scum, but you can be making the calls very much directed at "the game" if you know what I mean - "Hur hur, maybe some TB4 woulda helped you kick that Daniher hur hur!" - but if you're doing that in front of a kid and they have no choice but to hear it, then, hmmmm, hardly great. Maybe once in a game but going broken record is pretty crap.

Really my stance on opposition supporter interaction hasn't changed from that of before any of this happened. We're lucky that we have a sport where fans aren't segregated because idiots can't control themselves, so the best way to embrace that is to get along with the rest of the crowd. It's just been made a bit harder given that both other Essendon supporters and those from the opposition have become a lot more combative because of all of this.

 

[MaddAdam]

I might weirdly enough barrack for them against some opposition teams for the first time in years. Delisted and VFL rejects getting wins is like totally feel good man


I'll store up all my boos for next year when the cheats are back on the park

Yeah, it is annoying there's the whatever percentage but certainly enough of them who still think it was an all AFL set up etc.

Because there is the real opportunity for a kind of Mighty Ducks get behind them vibe this year.

And everyone likes to see the underdog do well. I hate Carlton but I was barracking hard for them last night.

In the same that if the Bombers go over to Subi to play West Coast this year (do they, I don't know?) and the Bombers are three points down going into the last quarter and kick a few kick ones, I'd be roaring my guts out for them.