Crowds cost Aflw

[Kappa]

Point of the thread is to say "derrr i fink da league won't last". But it's the thread that won't last, just like this one:

AFLW - Could this be the end?

With the AFL set to lose many millions will they still be able to fund AFLW? Have we seen the last game?

www.bigfooty.com

Another blatant lie.


The CBA which ensured most players went from earning $13,000 to $20,000 in the space of four years, yes. I have a feeling the AFL can cope with these "big" increases.

You have 14 teams with big squads and they all get another 21% increase with crowds in the hundreds... Yeah the afl does have a bottomless pit of money...

 

[Underarm]

Thing is though. If I was playing for the Eagles as a person, id get say 20 people to come watch me play each game and I think thats what we are getting. 1300 would mostly be friends and family as opposed to fans for a Richmond game

I think you grossly over estimate how many of your friends want to watch you play footy for 2 hours every week.

 

[Teen Wolf]

You have 14 teams with big squads and they all get another 21% increase with crowds in the hundreds... Yeah the afl does have a bottomless pit of money...

If that's an issue, they'll put more effort into maximising viewership (by not playing games on a Friday at 4pm, for example).

Regardless, the AFL are committed to year-on-year pay increases (though I wouldn't be fixated on the 21% figure, it was 7% for 2021). It's in their own best interests.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Are u taking about the cba where they got a 21% pay rise?

The 21% "Pay Rise" was an inaccurate headline put out by the AFL which other media followed.

It was actually a 21% "increase in earnings". Meaning they got more money, but had to train more days/longer hours and play more matches than previously.

Figures differ on what the actual hourly "pay rise" was. All agree it was single digits, but I've heard figures from 2-3%, to as high as a 7% hourly pay increase.

 

[briztoon]

The aflw players want a big pay rise though.

That’s bs.

This was discussed on our clubs podcast last week, when Emma Zielke was on. She said the focus was on growing crowds and media coverage, before players get a pay rise.

As for the Lions crowd number, that was counted by scanned memberships at the gate at three quarter time.

Every game at Hickey park has been a sell out this year. Usually sold out by the Wednesday before the game.

And the National government throws substantial millions at the various media companies to broadcast women’s sports. There was a recent article on this, by one of the sporting news outlets (just can’t remember which one, actually most likely ABC going by what I read).

 

[Walshawk]

Play it in Spring. Start the comp the Rnd 24 bye before AFL finals, run it through the finals when there are no days AFL games, then move to night games from October. 13 week season, each team plays each other once, GF on 11/12.

 

[jatz14]

Maybe so but they were whinging about the wages before the season started !!oops

My god, never been through a negotiation where the workers complained about pay before, the nerve!

 

[jatz14]

You have 14 teams with big squads and they all get another 21% increase with crowds in the hundreds... Yeah the afl does have a bottomless pit of money...

Its the AFL that negotiates the deals. If they cannot afford the deal, they will not sign it. Do you have any handle on what AFLW sponsorship is bringing in by the way. As you seem to be thinking every cent of the AFLW is coming of the AFLs bottom line, and we know thats not the case.

 

[Russ898]

Its the AFL that negotiates the deals. If they cannot afford the deal, they will not sign it. Do you have any handle on what AFLW sponsorship is bringing in by the way. As you seem to be thinking every cent of the AFLW is coming of the AFLs bottom line, and we know thats not the case.

Garbage the money is being found out of Vfl TAC cup and grassroots!!
And before you tell I have no idea that’s coming straight from TAC managers and Vfl.
The cuts have been deep to fund Aflw.
Aflw needs to be moved away from the men’s comp to survive in its current format it is costing a fortune .
Waiting for Teen Wolfs undeducted rant!!

 

[Russ898]

Garbage the money is being found out of Vfl TAC cup and grassroots!!
And before you tell I have no idea that’s coming straight from TAC managers and Vfl.
The cuts have been deep to fund Aflw.
Aflw needs to be moved away from the men’s comp to survive in its current format it is costing a fortune .
Waiting for Teen Wolfs undeducted rant!!

Uneducated

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Which ones are we talking about: the sellouts at Punt Road, the matches played in heavy rain, or the afternoon weekday games?

There's otherwise been precedence for every crowd figure recorded this season. And that's despite reduced capacity and people not being able to buy tickets at the gate, etc.


Some women's teams are generating over $1.5 million in revenue.


If the AFL think that's a problem, they'll structure the women's season in the future so that it doesn't overlap with the men's. If they don't think it's a problem, then... what's the problem?

to be fair generating revenue and generating profit are 2 completely different things. How much profit was made on that 1.5 mil revenue?

it ill be interesting to know if the AFL have a timeline in which they want to see profitability from each club on its own merits.

Obviously the AFL cant and wont bankroll it forever.

 

[Aardvark]

to be fair generating revenue and generating profit are 2 completely different things. How much profit was made on that 1.5 mil revenue?

it ill be interesting to know if the AFL have a timeline in which they want to see profitability from each club on its own merits.

Obviously the AFL cant and wont bankroll it forever.

The AFL continues to bankroll the men's teams that don't make a profit. Over 530k women/girls playing AFL means AFLW will be here long after you and I have departed whether it makes a profit or not.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The AFL continues to bankroll the men's teams that don't make a profit. Over 530k women/girls playing AFL means AFLW will be here long after you and I have departed whether it makes a profit or not.

the AFL doesn't bank roll the poor mens clubs...............the rich clubs do........

the problem is in the AFLW there are no rich clubs, so its all AFL money - will they continue to run the comp at a loss forever? I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Teen Wolf]

to be fair generating revenue and generating profit are 2 completely different things. How much profit was made on that 1.5 mil revenue?

it ill be interesting to know if the AFL have a timeline in which they want to see profitability from each club on its own merits.

Obviously the AFL cant and wont bankroll it forever.

AFLW salaries and costs will never be tied to revenue from TV ratings and attendance figures. Doesn't mean the league shouldn't try to maximise those things. But it doesn't mean the league isn't already profitable.

Look again, I said over $1.5m revenue.

Why do you think Jeff Kennett went from practically denouncing the league in Feb 2018 to begging for a Hawthorn AFLW licence three months later (and hasn't stopped doing so in the three years that have followed). Might have had something to do with stuff like this, the beginning of the flood:

Queensland Government to support 'The Reserve'

The Brisbane Lions' proposed training and administration base 'The Reserve' at Springfield, is one step closer to securing funding from the Queensland State Government.

www.lions.com.au

Ikon Park's $20M boost

The Victorian State Government will be committing $20 million to the redevelopment of Ikon Park.

www.carltonfc.com.au

RSEA Park's $13 million State Government grant

The Saints have secured $13 million in State government funding to begin Stage 2 of the redevelopment of RSEA Park.

www.saints.com.au

And it's not just government funding either, several club figureheads have made that explicitly clear. For example:

Price savaged for $1m AFLW criticism

Adelaide Crows legend Mark Ricciuto has labelled Steve Price an “official pot-stirrer” following his controversial comments about women’s AFL.

www.news.com.au

Collingwood Football Club President McGuire claimed membership numbers had risen because of the AFLW's popularity.

"Yes, we have invested probably $1 million here at Collingwood, and we are a mile in front because of our women's program," McGuire said.

"It has absolutely made football so much money in the last three years. Seriously, you would not know how much money it has helped.

Ricciuto asserted the AFLW has been "profitable" for Adelaide due to new sponsorships.

"One thing I do know is that women's football is not costing Adelaide anything — it's actually making money.

"It is profitable, and has been since day one … We've got some big sponsors on board as a result of women's footy."

 

[HirdsTheWord]

AFLW salaries and costs will never be tied to revenue from TV ratings and attendance figures. Doesn't mean the league shouldn't try to maximise those things. But it doesn't mean the league isn't already profitable.

Look again, I said over $1.5m revenue.

Why do you think Jeff Kennett went from practically denouncing the league in Feb 2018 to begging for a Hawthorn AFLW licence three months later (and hasn't stopped doing so in the three years that have followed). Might have had something to do with stuff like this, the beginning of the flood:

Queensland Government to support 'The Reserve'

The Brisbane Lions' proposed training and administration base 'The Reserve' at Springfield, is one step closer to securing funding from the Queensland State Government.

www.lions.com.au

Ikon Park's $20M boost

The Victorian State Government will be committing $20 million to the redevelopment of Ikon Park.

www.carltonfc.com.au

RSEA Park's $13 million State Government grant

The Saints have secured $13 million in State government funding to begin Stage 2 of the redevelopment of RSEA Park.

www.saints.com.au

And it's not just government funding either, several club figureheads have made that explicitly clear. For example:

Price savaged for $1m AFLW criticism

Adelaide Crows legend Mark Ricciuto has labelled Steve Price an “official pot-stirrer” following his controversial comments about women’s AFL.

www.news.com.au

unless i'm missing something the AFL don't break their financials down in their annual report to show what the AFLW is so i've never been able too see the correlation between revenue & profit specific to the AFLW.

I have no doubt they generate revenue, generating revenue is the easy bit, but its key to understand what profit is being generated from the revenue as to understand if its actually viable from a business perspective and to ensure AFLW's long term sustainability.

If the AFL's aim is for the AFLW to become a professional sport than the girls need to be earning professional salaries so they can do it full time, this will never happen if they aren't make money off it. I guess that's what I'm getting at.

 

[Teen Wolf]

unless i'm missing something the AFL don't break their financials down in their annual report to show what the AFLW is so i've never been able too see the correlation between revenue & profit specific to the AFLW.

I have no doubt they generate revenue, generating revenue is the easy bit, but its key to understand what profit is being generated from the revenue as to understand if its actually viable from a business perspective and to ensure AFLW's long term sustainability.

If the AFL's aim is for the AFLW to become a professional sport than the girls need to be earning professional salaries so they can do it full time, this will never happen if they aren't make money off it. I guess that's what I'm getting at.

I just explained they are making money and profiting off it.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I just explained they are making money and profiting off it.

What are the numbers for the AFLW as a whole?

I cant find them.

 

[jatz14]

to be fair generating revenue and generating profit are 2 completely different things. How much profit was made on that 1.5 mil revenue?

it ill be interesting to know if the AFL have a timeline in which they want to see profitability from each club on its own merits.

Obviously the AFL cant and wont bankroll it forever.

Can, and will.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Teen Wolf]

What are the numbers for the AFLW as a whole?

I cant find them.

The numbers as a whole would include $30m Springfield, $35m Ikon Park and $40m Whitten Oval, just as a starting point, which easily eclipses what the AFL has spent on the league.

And I'm not being facetious, because I can also get into specifics like poor little North Melbourne bringing in more money from one sponsor in its first year than the sum of their salary cap.

But the point is I can't find the exact numbers for the men's teams either. They all lump in hundreds of millions of dollars of funding and sponsorship and membership that would not have been secured without women's football.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The numbers as a whole would include $30m Springfield, $35m Ikon Park and $40m Whitten Oval, just as a starting point, which easily eclipses what the AFL has spent on the league.

And I'm not being facetious, because I can also get into specifics like poor little North Melbourne bringing in more money from one sponsor in its first year than the sum of their salary cap.

But the point is I can't find the exact numbers for the men's teams either. They all lump in hundreds of millions of dollars of funding and sponsorship and membership that would not have been secured without women's football.

well the datum for men’s would be just to look at the annual reports from when there was no AFLW and then average out the growth over say 5 years.

That’s probably the quickest way

 

[The_Wookie]

AFLW salaries and costs will never be tied to revenue from TV ratings and attendance figures. Doesn't mean the league shouldn't try to maximise those things. But it doesn't mean the league isn't already profitable.

Look again, I said over $1.5m revenue.

Ok, but clubs arent paying their own way - every club is being subsidised by the league for the womens teams - North reported $711,606 in AFLW funding as a distribution last year. $1.5m in revenue wouldnt cover everything for the womens programs at any club, which is a big part of why they have to run separate to the Mens comp - staff and facilities can be shared until the Mens season starts and then the men take priority.

Ive not seen any actual finanical data from any club as to the viability of the womens programs, and the AFL has made no specific figures available for AFLW.

well the datum for men’s would be just to look at the annual reports from when there was no AFLW and then average out the growth over say 5 years.

That’s probably the quickest way

AFL revenue isnt really that simple, sponsors change - the AFL made a real push into alternate sponsorships and sponsorship market breakdowns in the last 5 years, completely sparate to the womens competition starting. Other revenues are dependant on attendances and marvel stadium.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Ive not seen any actual finanical data from any club as to the viability of the womens programs, and the AFL has made no specific figures available for AFLW.

Therefore no separate figures have been made available for the men's competition either. We will never see any accurate data to that specific degree.

When a club official says having a women's team helped secure sponsor x for the men's team, for example, how is that dynamic supposed to be communicated on a balance sheet?

 

[The_Wookie]

Therefore no separate figures have been made available for the men's competition either. We will never see any accurate data to that specific degree.

Well thats not entirely true. The AFL until last year released data for the AFL - which consitutes the AFL (league), and the AFL Commission - which consolidates all the subsidary bodies. With media rights increases, someone with time could probably work out increases in commercial revenue.

When a club official says having a women's team helped secure sponsor x for the men's team, for example, how is that dynamic supposed to be communicated on a balance sheet?

Who knows. But with no specific data available - or weirdly enough not even the media has attempted to value these sponsorships. We know the media rights are worth 3/10s of bugger all though, so I dont believe sponsorship is as big as you might.

Id be hesitate to describe AFLW on its own as profitable, but regardless of loss or profit, the league can sustain it fairly easily.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Who knows. But with no specific data available - or weirdly enough not even the media has attempted to value these sponsorships. We know the media rights are worth 3/10s of bugger all though, so I dont believe sponsorship is as big as you might.

Not a matter of what I believe. A (former) club president described 4 of these deals as "probably the biggest in my time at Collingwood".

Maybe "big/biggest/mile in front" is too vague for some, hence I also brought up the government funding examples which most clearly highlight AFLW as a profitable venture for the AFL.

Id be hesitate to describe AFLW on its own as profitable

That's why I've been saying AFLW's value can't be accurately judged in a vacuum free of its symbiotic relationship with the men's league.