Crown: Joe Hachem Deep Stack Series

Remove this Banner Ad

Forthwrite said:
Haha nice. I'm playing tomorrow night, as well.

Last year Day 1a got 256 runners, Day 1b got 253 and Day 1c got 275.

They played down to mid 80's for the first 2 and down to 102 for Day 1c.

I like those numbers much better than the ridiculous opening event.
Click to expand...

Sweet, good luck!

Yeah those numbers are not too bad at all, how long do you think it will take for ~250 to ~80 tonight? I'm thinking 4AM? Work in the morning. :eek:
 
Nice work man, I was going ok for a while but was down to 25,000 at 2am - tried to make a move as I didn't want to come back Sunday with like 10bbs. Good luck!
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Forthwrite said:
There was 203 runners and it played down to about 70.

I somehow managed to scrape through with 40,600 chips and will be back for day 2 on Sunday.

I faded 17 cards on the river to double up in the 2nd last level!

Joe Hachem was on the table next to me for a bit. He busted pretty early.. I didn't see any of his hands but I saw him lose a pot and say "Where are you guys even from?!" and storm off all upset.

Tony G was also roaming around, but he wasn't playing. He's lost heaps of weight.
Click to expand...

Hachem got done by a gutshot then got his JJ done by 77, though the money went in on the river of a ten high board that had a 7 on it

You hear good things and bad things about him though, some people say hes a pleasure to play with while others say hes a sook

I played cash last night, went in not sure whether I'd play the ME but after not getting in until 6:50 I decided I'd play cash and make my decision on Saturday whether I play or not

Dont love the structure, still think I'll play the Aussie Millions opening event plus another 1k event along the way rather than this
 
Forthwrite said:
Joe Hachem was on the table next to me for a bit. He busted pretty early.. I didn't see any of his hands but I saw him lose a pot and say "Where are you guys even from?!" and storm off all upset.
Click to expand...

Thought he would have a bit more class in his own tournament.

I played with Tony Hachem last year and he spent the whole time moaning about how bad he runs in tournaments. That and beratiing some fish who sucked out on him. That was before he picked up two consecutive ANZPT POTY and took down Perth I guess.
 
red+black said:
Structures were not released and will not be publicly released.

However you may find out if you call the Poker Room or enquire when you are there.

Stupid I know. Check pokernetwork thread.
Click to expand...
that's absolutely outrageous.

i wouldn't even consider playing a tourny of $200 or above with out at least knowing the structure...

have they said why??
 
Black Thunder said:
that's absolutely outrageous.

i wouldn't even consider playing a tourny of $200 or above with out at least knowing the structure...

have they said why??
Click to expand...

Yeah, here and here.

Final table is on this afternoon. This time last year, I left work early to rail Amanda (The Poker Star) to victory. Was pretty epic!
 
^^ that thread doesnt say why they didnt but it seems pretty obvious why

From last glance it looked like the avg stack was around 20bb which isnt bad at a live final table I guess

they are some good reshove stacks and the action will be plenty
 
yeah exactly, they are "deep stacked" for the first few levels than the blinds just gobble everyone up.

i wish there was some sort of "poker rule" where you couldn't call a tournament deep stacked purely based on starting stacks.

but i don't know how you arrange that the stacks are shallower and play is quicker through the early to middle stages and the stacks deeper during the end stages where you're actually playing for money which is when they should be deep. the nature of tournament play is that you get shallower and shallower.

might play the 6-handed event and/or the mixed game. the last time i played the mixed game was in the vic champs and it was torture. we were going about 15 to 20 hands an hour because most people needed to learn each game or the play of each game as we went. we started off on 2-7 TD on level 1 (obviously) and it was about level 5 before we were back on the same game.
 
A reason I prefer cash games. I love to play at my own pace and hate the constantly increasing blinds that make most tourneys as much skill as roulette.
 
Black Thunder said:
yeah exactly, they are "deep stacked" for the first few levels than the blinds just gobble everyone up.

i wish there was some sort of "poker rule" where you couldn't call a tournament deep stacked purely based on starting stacks.

but i don't know how you arrange that the stacks are shallower and play is quicker through the early to middle stages and the stacks deeper during the end stages where you're actually playing for money which is when they should be deep. the nature of tournament play is that you get shallower and shallower.

might play the 6-handed event and/or the mixed game. the last time i played the mixed game was in the vic champs and it was torture. we were going about 15 to 20 hands an hour because most people needed to learn each game or the play of each game as we went. we started off on 2-7 TD on level 1 (obviously) and it was about level 5 before we were back on the same game.
Click to expand...

They keys to making a tournament deep at the later stages are simple

Longer levels. A tournament cant be deep if its played in a day and its as simple as that. You need long levels which take time, it def needs to be played over at least 2 days (FT on 3rd day) for it to have a chance. Sometimes making the first 12 levels shorter and the following longer (say 45mins-75mins)

Extra levels. They shouldnt be called extra levels but at Crown they are. They cut out quite a few levels deep in tournaments, resulting in quick jumps/shorter stacks

Antes. You need bustouts, Antes create aggression which create bustouts. Antes need to be decent as well, never less than 1/5th but should always try and be 1/4th

The players also, if you are in a tournament full of bad players, theyre going to be folding lots/not busting out. A better field of players will usually famish before a field of bad players who dont know they need to shove AK with 9bb, they'd rather limp-c/f flops with it and hang onto their 5bb stack
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

unfortunatley it's just not that profitable for crown to make tourny's last longer. although you're right about the ante's. they do get people out of there much quicker.

it would just be good to play in a tournament where when you actually get to playing for the money it's not just a shovefest.
 
As much as Allen Kessler et al (inc. myself) may go on about tournament structures, you still see higher buy-in 3-day tournaments at the WSOP with triple stacks and 80%+ of players busting on Day 1.
 
red+black said:
As much as Allen Kessler et al (inc. myself) may go on about tournament structures, you still see higher buy-in 3-day tournaments at the WSOP with triple stacks and 80%+ of players busting on Day 1.
Click to expand...

lol i dont know whether your slagging on the WSOP, tourny structures in general or whether thats a compliment

its also important to remember, tournaments need bustouts and they need to end. People get mad because if theyre card dead and bust, the structures should provide enough time to get over it but its impossible. WPT have been trying to shutout variance as much as possible with their redic structures and now lots of players are revolting against them because theyre spending 5 days getting to the same result, shove AK and lose to JJ

A decent structure should have 50-75bb stacks at a FT, regardless of how long it takes to get there. the WPT have managed to stretch it to 5 days, the WSOP can do it in 3

Crown obv cant afford to run a $30 raked tournament for 18 hours, which is why I have no problem with them upping the avg buyins to get the extra rake to run tournaments longer. A monthly or weekly 340 that went for an entire day (12pm-1am) and had some kind of big blind grnt with the last 2 tables would be great. It wouldnt need to be much, you could make a 35bb grnt for the final two tables or something along those lines. 30bb maybe
 
Forthwrite said:
The Crown rep on Poker Network said the structures are here.

40 minute levels in the main and it's probably 11 handed again. :thumbsdown:.

I'll still play it, though.
Click to expand...

yeah I wish the levels were 60min on day 2. 40min I can deal with I suppose

11 is so bad for so many reasons, hopefully its not long before its 10handed, which is still terrible

The structure isnt terrible tbh, theyve got some buffer levels in there. The 6max and Terminator suprise me by having decent structures as well. It still comes down to level time though, half an hour and its still going to be turbo
 
JuddsABlue said:
lol i dont know whether your slagging on the WSOP, tourny structures in general or whether thats a compliment
Click to expand...

I'm saying that to some extent, structures are not entirely relevant. When you have players willing to shove/flip pre for 100-200 BBs, it really doesn't matter if the WSOP started with 2x/3x/4x/5x starting stacks.

JuddsABlue said:
yeah I wish the levels were 60min on day 2. 40min I can deal with I suppose

11 is so bad for so many reasons, hopefully its not long before its 10handed, which is still terrible

The structure isnt terrible tbh, theyve got some buffer levels in there
Click to expand...

I agree that Crown's insistence of 11-handed tournaments is far worse than their structures. Forget the Joe Hachem Deep Stack Series, how about a series of tournaments that begin 9-handed at worst?
 
red+black said:
As much as Allen Kessler et al (inc. myself) may go on about tournament structures, you still see higher buy-in 3-day tournaments at the WSOP with triple stacks and 80%+ of players busting on Day 1.
Click to expand...
i reckon that's ok. i don't mind the structure of a tourney being shallow at the early stages and people get knocked out at regular intervals so that it plateau's off and at the end when the money is beind played for you'll still be 30bb deep. it's not likke you're playing deep but 30bb is better than playing bingo.

but obviously it's very hard to be able to plan for that and knocking people out at the same time in the early stages. you might get a tourny where no one wants to risk their stack and you're playing for 8 hours and you still have 1/3rd of the field left....

sorry if don't make sense. just home and pretty smashed. i think i've got the idea of what i'm trying to get at across.... maybe. happy days :)
 
All structures with a 25/50 level should scrap the 25/50 and add in 75/150 level imo

start all tournaments at 50/100 and go from there, 75/150-100/200-100/200/25

Its no major difference but you will get a few more knocks out at 75/150 than you will from 25/50, without sacrificing anything major at all. These extremely deep stacked levels are a waste of time. Starting with 300bb is completely redic imo

I'll play the 6max, ME and maybe the terminator. Might play the opening event cause I've final tabled it already this year it would be worth chasing points to play off for a seat
 
the ME structure doesnt appear to have any major leaks besides the level length

add onto that most of the mouth breathers at Crown refuse to get their stack in until they have no choice results in a general shallow avg stack

this same structure in a field of 18-23 year old regs would play much better than a field of a 40 year old nits at Crown

Played the opening event and busted to Steve Topakos, got it in ahead v him twice but lost both times, I guess thats how they do it

Cancelled my plans for the 6max because its a short week already, trying to squeeze a Thursday off wouldnt be worth the trouble, but will play the Main
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top