Crown Perth (formerly Burswood) Casino - Part 2

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continued from Burswood Casino, Perth - Part 1



KEY:
PF = particpation fee; a per hand charge that goes to the house
HF = hourly fee; a per hour charge that goes to the house
RAKE = pot charge; a charge deducted from a winning pot that goes to the house (eg: 10%/ 8 means 10% of the pot to a max $8)

Code:
[URL=http://burswoodpoker.com.au/][B]Perth - Burswood[/B][/URL] (updated July 07, 2010)
Tables: 12 (Open: Mo-Th 1200-0600, Fr-Su 24 hours)

[B]GAME         BUY-IN     PF   RAKE     HF   COMMENTS[/B]
 10/20  LO    100  min   0   ~5%/20    0   1 table, capped @ 3 raises, Sundays only
  2/ 5 NLH     50- 300   0   10%/15    0   2-8 tables; on weekdays,
  5/ 5 NLH    200- 500   0   ~5%/20    0   1-2 tables; buy-in can be 200-1000
****************************************************

I played like a n00b last night. My trademark useless pre raise to 6 when i have something thats decent but not overly awesome and just want to add a bit of value to the pot actually paid off for once, this occasion i had 77. Flop 778, i raise $6 and this guy who was keen to go to Eve for ages raises an extra 25, i mutter what the f***, before I raise to 50 and then he goes all in for 70 odd, i obviously call and he sees my quads and walks off. Apparently he had A8 which the dealer played out and said he would've booked which was meaningless anyway.

I thought i played this hand alright but in the end I screwed myself up bad. Pot about $35, 3 spades on the flop, i have the K:spade: and raise to 15, 1 guy calls, a blank i raise 15 again he thinks for a bit, calls, spade on the river gives me the flush, he raises 15 first, i raise to 30, he calls me all in for another 30ish i call and he shows the A:spade: He said he had to think about it for a while, thinking I may have fluked a straight flush with 68:spade:

Then the same guy beats me again, i played this stupidly I know, had K10os pre flop raise to 6, flop K 10 8, I only bet 10, about 4 people fold and he's the only caller, turn A and i only bet another 10, which he thinks about for a while and then calls, at this stage I have a feeling that I'm screwed if the dealer shows either a Q or J. Sure enough its a Q, he checks immediately, which i know he was eager to check raise me so i check, he flips over trip Q's and im pissed off that betting such small amounts to get a few callers to get me closer to breakeven cost me the pot. Then I couldn't be bothered anymore go all in for about 25 with 44, and just my luck new player has AA, and it all goes as expected and thats me 150 down for the night followed by another 60 loss at blackjack/roulette and me pissed off for blowing my Xmas money already without buying anything :(
 

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ashley12

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Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

A couple of points...

1) Make reference to your position in a hand. Hard to comment depending on whether you are UTG or the button or whever...

2) Your raise to 6 is very bad in 90% of the situations. I do it sometimes from first in UTG just because a) it dosent get 3-bet often b) Its good for metagame in that Im just here to clown around. If there are multiple limpers already, generally just limp along or raise properly to put them to a more difficult decision... the 77 hand you can kind of play either way, raising or calling as long as you see a flop. Remember, you might be scared of the AKx flop, but they could be scared as well...

3) River raise with the third nuts I think is bad, espcially if you havent figured out a play to make if he decides to repop again. Without knowing the exact pot odds etc... He isnt betting then reraising all in with just the Qc. Generally on these kind of four flush boards I just call with anything except the A of the suit...

4) The first sum of money put into a street of betting is known as the bet, the second amount is the raise, and the third is the reraise. Hence why your actions before the flops to $6 are raises, since you are raising the $3 with $3 more, but the flop amounts are bets of $6, since their is no bet to actually raise. Its irrelevant, but Im just getting in before Red+Black does...
 

E2EK1EL

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#3
Re: Burswood Casino, Perth - Part 1

you need to be more aggressive in your betting.

your just giving guys the right odds to hit their hands
 

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Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

A couple of points...

1) Make reference to your position in a hand. Hard to comment depending on whether you are UTG or the button or whever...
Ah yeah sorry about that, I only know the obvious SB BB UTG, UTG+1 and the button, I forget how it goes after that. For the 77, i was either UTG or UTG+1 and would've been three before the button on the K10os hand.

2) Your raise to 6 is very bad in 90% of the situations. I do it sometimes from first in UTG just because a) it dosent get 3-bet often b) Its good for metagame in that Im just here to clown around. If there are multiple limpers already, generally just limp along or raise properly to put them to a more difficult decision... the 77 hand you can kind of play either way, raising or calling as long as you see a flop. Remember, you might be scared of the AKx flop, but they could be scared as well...
Without trying to give too much of my style away, even though if we were up against each other you'd pwn me anyway, I'll only pre-bet to double figures if i have 2 picture cards or high pockets. And something which is decent but not overly awesome (Eg. K10os) I may pre-bet between 6-9 early on. Otherwise i'll just try limp in with it.

3) River raise with the third nuts I think is bad, espcially if you havent figured out a play to make if he decides to repop again. Without knowing the exact pot odds etc... He isnt betting then reraising all in with just the Qc. Generally on these kind of four flush boards I just call with anything except the A of the suit...
True but i thought the original bet of 15 there was pretty weak considering the pot was like 100, so i assumed he didn't have the As, but then when he re-raised I thought I was too far in to cut my losses really. I guess he was just trying to get a little bit of money off me, and was expecting me to fold if he made it 20-25 or so. At least I read him much better in the K10 hand. Which I inevitably lost for being a n00b anyway.

4) The first sum of money put into a street of betting is known as the bet, the second amount is the raise, and the third is the reraise. Hence why your actions before the flops to $6 are raises, since you are raising the $3 with $3 more, but the flop amounts are bets of $6, since their is no bet to actually raise. Its irrelevant, but Im just getting in before Red+Black does...
Ok, cheers for that. Shall try not to n00b talk in future :thumbsu: :D
 

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#5
Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

You seem to bet the same on the turn as you do on the flop. That is never a good idea, just begging to be rivered.
 

ashley12

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Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

You seem to bet the same on the turn as you do on the flop. That is never a good idea, just begging to be rivered.
This. You need to bet more in relation to the pot, compared to how much of your stack, or how much in BB...

About your small raises. IMO your raise amount shouldnt change by the quality of your holdings. Things that can be a variable into how much you raise...
  • The total amount of limpers in front of you.
  • Who the limpers are in front of you (generally the more loose passive the limper/s, the more I raise because I can isolate easier and they call the extra 15 or whatever with some absolute cheese. If its a tighter player I will most likely tighten my raising range (what cards I raise with)
  • Table dynamics. If three drunkards that call 20 preflop with absolute cheese, then I will raise to 20 or whatever UTG with my kings, and expect action from a plethora of shit hands...
Its your money, and your allowed to play however you like when your at the casino, but I see absolutely no real use in these single digit raises. Not only are you making it so little to call, but if we have effective stacks of 100 each (you have 300 and I have 100 for example) then I am only putting in 6% of my stack to go either set mining, low suited connectors, Ax's etc... Im putting in a lower percentage of my stack to see the flop and possibly flop big and stack you...

Also, by having varying raise sizes, you are playing with a tighter range, which makes it easier not only for me to know roughly what you have, but how much you are willing to put in with said hand, and what you want to do with it. i.e, if you make one of your bigger raises, I call and flop a set, because your hand is stronger on average I can raise bigger, because its more likely you have a strong hand like an overpair...
 

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Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

Thats cool, cheers for the info Ash. I understand exactly where you're coming from because we have the discussion with the people I go with on the way home, and I realise where I screw up etc, well I tend to learn after I just lost the hand too. Unfortunately for me, I rarely get drunkards who suck.

Borgsta, I think that occurs when I think too much about how much I have left if I lose rather than the actual position in it, generally when I'm down and near the point where i'll be out and not re-buy this time. Not a good way to look at it I know. Like i've said earlier in the thread im learning, only played proper cash games about half a dozen times now. So much different to stupid home games with mates and stuff. And with that, im now off to a mates place for a home game :p
 

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#8
Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

Borgsta, I think that occurs when I think too much about how much I have left if I lose rather than the actual position in it, generally when I'm down and near the point where i'll be out and not re-buy this time. Not a good way to look at it I know. Like i've said earlier in the thread im learning, only played proper cash games about half a dozen times now. So much different to stupid home games with mates and stuff. And with that, im now off to a mates place for a home game :p
I think it's a learning thing. I used to bet in the same way but when you get burned by it enough you will change it by yourself.

No one is going to start off and be brilliant with cash games and it's good to bounce hands off other people.
 

paxmaniac

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Re: Burswood Casino, Perth

3) River raise with the third nuts I think is bad, espcially if you havent figured out a play to make if he decides to repop again. Without knowing the exact pot odds etc... He isnt betting then reraising all in with just the Qc. Generally on these kind of four flush boards I just call with anything except the A of the suit...
By the river most of the money was in anyway, so I would be shoving to get calls from all the medium flushes. If the money is deep, you might need to think a bit but with less than a pot bet behind you just have to accept that Ac will stack you.

The flop bet of 15 into 35 is ok, especially if you are last to act. The turn bet of 15 into 65 is a complete waste of time - it's not big enough to fold out better hands. You need to either make a serious semibluff of around 50, or simply hope for a free card to hit your flush.
 

ashley12

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Session last night... One hand in particular I want feedback on...

Our hero has a reasonably aggressive image, on his second BI. First BI got stacked rather unfortunately set vs overpair, just got a flukey double by shoving with lots of fold equity with a weak pair and got called by aces on the turn, and rivered trips. Stack around 400, and the two main villians all have me covered...

Hero has JJ and raises to 15 UTG. A call from a loose passive limit player on my left. Someone else calls, Tricky asian player raises to 30 from MP, he has been very good postflop and hasnt missed an oppurtunity to take a pot away on the next street at all if checked to. Someone cold calls 30 in the HJ. Blinds clear out, I just call so we see a flop 5 ways with 155 in the pot.

POT: 155 FLOP: T:heart:9:club:8:club:.

Hero has the Jc. Hero checks with the intention to shove over any decent sized raised. Mr Passive checks, Asian checks, folds to the guy in the HJ who wants to bet around 50, but accidently strings it for 5. I raise to 65 and get called by both the asian and the string raiser.

POT: 350ish Turn 2:club:

I have around 280 left at this stage. What the **** do I do now... Likewise what would I do with the J:heart:, Q:club: 7:diamond: and an 8? What about the 2:diamond:
 

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4-bet to 120 pre and if you see a flop, bet enough to commit yourself. You're probably only beat by a set, even on the turn, and the 4-bet pre may have got 99/88 to fold. Be sick if HJ had A/K/Q and 2 clubs.
 

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ashley12

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4-bet to 120 pre and if you see a flop, bet enough to commit yourself. You're probably only beat by a set, even on the turn, and the 4-bet pre may have got 99/88 to fold.
What range would you give Mr asian anyway, who out of my 9 villians, in fact, maybe all 25ish for the night, was the best by a freaking mile. He isnt raising that light is he? espcially when he knows Im not folding pre, and that he knows I am raising UTG...

And if I get called in one place preflop, and the flop is Axx or Kxx, then am I shipping it?
 

ashley12

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I played last night... Few hours, win some money, watch United lose, cry, play limit, lose lots of money... play back to 2/3 donk off some more then the hand of the night....

I get a hand in MP, and raise to 15. We see a flop I think 4 ways, and Im 3rd to act. Flop Q65. Checked to me, and I take a freebie... Turn is a 3. I bet 20 when it gets to me, someone raises, folds to me and I call. River is an 8, he shoves... I tank for a while, get told by one lady to hurry up there is only 30 mins left, then I call....

Results ------> I have 59o for a combined 4th pair. He shoves, I call, he mucks, I win a $300ish poot.... EZ game <-------------
 

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#14
Hero has JJ and raises to 15 UTG. A call from a loose passive limit player on my left. Someone else calls, Tricky asian player raises to 30 from MP, he has been very good postflop and hasnt missed an oppurtunity to take a pot away on the next street at all if checked to. Someone cold calls 30 in the HJ. Blinds clear out, I just call so we see a flop 5 ways with 155 in the pot.

POT: 155 FLOP: T:heart:9:club:8:club:.

Hero has the Jc. Hero checks with the intention to shove over any decent sized raised. Mr Passive checks, Asian checks, folds to the guy in the HJ who wants to bet around 50, but accidently strings it for 5. I raise to 65 and get called by both the asian and the string raiser.
Here you need to bet $110ish IMO. Want to get rid of club draws whilst you still have an over pair and a straight draw.

POT: 350ish Turn 2:club:

I have around 280 left at this stage. What the **** do I do now... Likewise what would I do with the J:heart:, Q:club: 7:diamond: and an 8? What about the 2:diamond:
What did you end up doing here?
 

mdc

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#15
Session last night... One hand in particular I want feedback on...

Our hero has a reasonably aggressive image, on his second BI. First BI got stacked rather unfortunately set vs overpair, just got a flukey double by shoving with lots of fold equity with a weak pair and got called by aces on the turn, and rivered trips. Stack around 400, and the two main villians all have me covered...

Hero has JJ and raises to 15 UTG. A call from a loose passive limit player on my left. Someone else calls, Tricky asian player raises to 30 from MP, he has been very good postflop and hasnt missed an oppurtunity to take a pot away on the next street at all if checked to. Someone cold calls 30 in the HJ. Blinds clear out, I just call so we see a flop 5 ways with 155 in the pot.

POT: 155 FLOP: T:heart:9:club:8:club:.

Hero has the Jc. Hero checks with the intention to shove over any decent sized raised. Mr Passive checks, Asian checks, folds to the guy in the HJ who wants to bet around 50, but accidently strings it for 5. I raise to 65 and get called by both the asian and the string raiser.

POT: 350ish Turn 2:club:

I have around 280 left at this stage. What the **** do I do now... Likewise what would I do with the J:heart:, Q:club: 7:diamond: and an 8? What about the 2:diamond:
Preflop raise is better, but calling isn't awful. The bet of 65 into 155 on the flop is awful.

The correct play is to "attempt" to lead out with 80 or so, but "accidentally" throw an extra hundred into the pot, for a total of 180, making you nice and committed ;).

As played, it looks pretty likely that Asian has some sort of overpair to me, so I'm betting it like I have ze flush.
 

ashley12

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In my mind what I wanted to really do was shove over the top of any resembling a decent bet on the flop (say 60+). If the bet was 60, the pot after my call would be around 270, with me having just over that back, and the hand plays out a little bit better... My raise didnt really account for how many limpers there had been, and I miscounted the pot at the time (I thought it was around 100 for some reason, maybe didnt see 2 greens...) Anyway, I decided that it was either c/f, or shove, because if I bet 180 or something like that, I cant fold to a raise, when I am usually drawing dead...

Spoiler...

Ashley12 shoves, asian shoves over the top for not a lot more, other guy folds AT. I lose to AQcc from the asian...

I remembered the fact that he 3-bet me fairly light given I raised almost UTG. It happened again a few hours later when I had AKcc and he had KK. This time I 4bet pre, he called, I shoved with a FD on the flop and he snap calls and I lose again...

And another hand from last night. I get some cheese like K7o in the BB and check my option, or might have paid the 1 from the SB or something. Flop J55 and I check to fold. Everyone checks. Turn is an ace. I check, a very LAGgy asian player bets 10, folds to me, I see a telegraphed fold behind me, so I call. River is another jack. I check, he bets 40 really really fast, and I have seen him muck face down before, so I call... He says you got me, but unfortunately dosent muck his 92o face down. I announce chop and my brutally rivered King high....:(
 

ashley12

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Some lulz from today...

I actually was playing really well early, very tight when responding to people's raises, but raising fairly liberally from LP when limped to... playing some of the J9s, QTs, QJo hands really well in late position... Anyway, some of the hands

- Im up around 300 at this stage, 500 in front of me. I get 64s and overlimp maybe 5 people OTB. The SB pumps 10 or 15 on top, two calls to me and I call closing the action. Flop Q96cc. SB looks pained and bets 10, a call and I elect to turn my hand into a bluff, raising to 45 total. SB tank calls, other guy calls. Turn is the Ac, great card for my hand IMO... SB checks angrily, other guy checks, I bet 70. SB folds TT, other guy tanks for a while, then calls, I cringe and turn up bottom pair, and its good at the moment vs JTo with a club... Im fading something like half the deck, and fail when the 8h drops on the end... Someone tells my Im an idiot, which is probably right despite the fact I folded out the best hand, got it in good vs a draw, and got "brutally" sucked out on... I think if the other guy has more back I get that through... Pot total was around $330

- Very next hand I get TT in the CO. Maybe 4 limps to me, I raise to 18, and we see a flop about 4 ways give or take. Flop K98 all hearts, and I hold the Th. Someone donks 20 into me, I raise to around 70 looking to check the turn. Someone check calls from the SB, and the donker folds... Turn is an offsuit jack. SB jams into me for around 80. Im getting close to 4:1 and I dont think Im ever in really bad shape against something like the made flush bigger then my draw or something like KxJh. I call. He shows A8o for the NFD, and gets their on the river. Total pot around $390...

Two hands I think I played alright, but yeah, I didnt want that $700 anyway...

- Fish raises to 15 in EP, two calls and I add 75 on top to cover him with AKo. He calls all-in with 65o, and crushes my soul...

- Fish raises again to 15 UTG. A few calls to me and I decide the squeeze play is on with A4o... 100 on top, fish snap calls with AA for around 70 ldo, someone calls all-in with AJo, and someone, the last to act, decides to gamble with 96o... for 100, over a big 3 bet and two shoves.... Flop contains a 6 and I lose a fair amount... 96o FFS....

Im getting coolered and crushed, and almost leave when I find a mini-heater... I flop a flush, and get some money. I then flop bottom set, someone turns top two, and I get a key double. Very next hand I flop the nuts, and it is already bet and raised before it gets to me... More lulz...

We merge tables, and I get outplayed by one guy badly, same guy as the AQcc hand, and yeah, he has absolutely owned my soul recently, though having the best of the hands... Today my overpair vs his set cost me a fair amount, and then he got me off AJ after three-betting me pre with QQ on a AK8 8 board. I should have raised the flop and made it the last money Im putting into the pot, but I failed...

Then I raise JJ more or less UTG. Some ******** 3 bets me to 50. I just flat (flame away). Flop AK4 and I check raise him. He calls and then shoves the turn into me. I fold and he shows 88... Wafflecrushed IMO...

Overall a profit of 100, but it should have about an extra 0 on the end IMO...
 

paxmaniac

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#18
What range would you give Mr asian anyway, who out of my 9 villians, in fact, maybe all 25ish for the night, was the best by a freaking mile. He isnt raising that light is he? espcially when he knows Im not folding pre, and that he knows I am raising UTG...

And if I get called in one place preflop, and the flop is Axx or Kxx, then am I shipping it?
IMO a minraise is not that likely to be a premium pair here - I would expect him to raise bigger with premiums. More likely something like a mid pair or unpaired high cards - probably just trying to buy the button.

It can be a little dangerous going for the checkraise against multiple players on a drawy board. People are likely to play cautiously and it could check through. I'd favour a fairly sizable donk (around pot).

When you are called in two places I would be very cautious when the third club comes. Try not to stack off against a flush. If a Jack comes I think you just have to check and call down - it's easier if you bet more on the flop, because naked queens will have folded and maybe even some. If a blank comes, bet big like you have the best hand.
 

ashley12

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Well, I have played against him a fair bit the last few days , and bin min-raised fairly often. They include...

KK, QQ a few times, AQ and AK...

Fairly premium hands, and these minraises have at times come after someone flats my open raises. Even though I think its stupid, these minraises mean I have lost initiative in some key hands, and makes it kind of hard to play OOP...
 

paxmaniac

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#20
KK, QQ a few times, AQ and AK...

Fairly premium hands, and these minraises have at times come after someone flats my open raises. Even though I think its stupid, these minraises mean I have lost initiative in some key hands, and makes it kind of hard to play OOP...
Definitely a leak. You exploit it fairly simply by folding more of the unfavourable flops including some of the draws that you would normally semibluff with.
 

mdc

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#21
ash, I hazard to say your description of "good" followed by c/c that flop and min-raising premiums does not compute.
 

ashley12

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ash, I hazard to say your description of "good" followed by c/c that flop and min-raising premiums does not compute.
My main issue is that he has done these "minraises" while in position. Im certain that these raises are kind of crap, but he has been rather good post-flop, ridiculously good in fact, at least against me, and with position and initiative, makes him kinda hard to play again, though maybe I am a bit MUBSy because the one time I 4bet pre with AK he had KK and I maybe unneccessarily stacked off?. In the maybe half a dozen biggish hands we have played in the last week, he has either lost the minimum, extracted the maximum, or got me off a winning hand.

Dont get me wrong, minimum raising me, espcially given the fact my EP range is pretty ferkin small... is stupid. But its getting quite frustrating recently as there is now a few players who actually play really well vs someone like me...

EDIT: Which hand are you on about c/c the flop?
 

ashley12

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Went down tonight, had my first +$1000 session in a long time, over 10 Burswood 2/3 sessions in fact...

Some fun hands, that I want some analysis on...

1) I have Q9o in around the lowjack, which is 3 from the button. I raise to 15, someone raises to 30, folds to me, I call. Flop Ad, 9d, 3d. I have the Qd. I check, villian bets 20, I raise to 70. Villian shoves having me covered just for effectively 230ish. I tank, villian makes a mini-spiel... In the end, I flip one of the $1 chips whether to call, as they have varying sides, and the chip tells me to call, so I do...

2) I have the 34dd and there are three limpers. Someone wants to raise buy violates the 1 chip rule, so calls. I call OTB. Blinds complete. Flop 245 with a heart draw. One of the blinds leads for 15, there is a call, and then wannabe PFR raises to 50. I have the table covered, the wannabe PFR has 70 back from his 50, so started the hand with 123. The two players in for 15 have somewhere around 150-200 back... I now do what, and why....

3) I have K5ss and overlimp a few people. I flop the second nut flush. There is a bet of 5, a call, and a raise to 15 direct on my right. I now do? Board is Js9s4s... Everyone is at least $100 deep, I have around $400 IIRC...

4) I have AA and raise over a limper early in the day... he calls. HU for 15 each... Flop AK4 with a club draw and I the A is a club. Villian donks 25 into me... Now what do I do???

Other then that, had a pretty good night. Got on the good side of a few cooler hands, and read my opponents relatively well, and had a solid win... Also, one LOL hand of note... I call on the turn with a gutshot and backdoor FD, and get there on the turn. I c/r, maniac villian shoves, I call, and its a chop and I lose $2 for the hand in rake LOLrakeaments...
 

Borgsta

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#24
1) You check raised hoping to steal and were caught, instant fold. You may be drawing almost dead already. Seeing as you won a grand though I'll say that you got lucky and won.

2) I push there. PFR most likely has high pocket pair so you will be chasing but if you get rid of the flush draws any A,3,4 and 6 wins it for you.

3) Raise to $60 odd.

4) Again raise to $60 odd.
 

Ricketts

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#25
Just call with the AA. If he really is just "donking" into you, then he might feel he then has the initiative and try it again.

Of course though he probably has the flush draw and you will let him get there.
 
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