News Crows buy professional eSports team

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ChilliP

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If we're doing it right Legacy would be a loss. Legacy could be cash positive if we wanted but it wouldn't be a large profit. In 10 - 15 years time esports will be a bigger industry than any league around the globe so in 10-15 years time owning Australias biggest esports organisation will be a very valuable investment and that's why we own legacy and why we would be running legacy at a loss rather than to generate profit. We need to invest into legacy to make them bigger and better than any of their competitors in the country, we need to push them to the top of the ladder rather than just let them live within their means and pocket a few $k each year. We need to push the side up so that when (and it's not an "if" it's a "when") the big money starts rolling into aus eSports we are the obvious choice to choose.

eSports is also a very fertile ground for sports psychology research since you take away pure athletic ability, injuries, umpire error & weather conditions so a players mindset and how it affects performance becomes much more important and measurable. eSports will help make many breakthroughs in sports psychology that will be taken back to regular sports to improve performance (the whole camp fiasco shows how little we know about sports psychology and what will and won't improve performance) and that's why many sporting organisations are so keen to get into eSports, they want to be the first to get that IP.
 

1970crow

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eSports teams often turn over players. Essendon had a shit season, so they sacked their side and will recruit new players.
Then why did we purchase a team? Surely we'd just recruit players and start our own and enter them in a league.

Edit- rhetorical question. There's no razzle dazzle in just starting a team. To get the cheer squad going you've got to acquire one.
 

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dogs105

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Of course. But this seems easier.

Infrastructure like coach, manager, gaming houses and computer hardware
Also, for LoL, 2 years ago we could have put a team in the lower challenger's league, and be promoted to OPL if we won, but that option has been closed off now with no new challengers able to enter that league.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
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Then why did we purchase a team? Surely we'd just recruit players and start our own and enter them in a league.

Edit- rhetorical question. There's no razzle dazzle in just starting a team. To get the cheer squad going you've got to acquire one.
They brought one of eight top-tier League of Legends professional teams competing in the Oceanic Pro League,
Basically, they brought an established team, which was cheaper than starting a new team,
Also Legacy has several different teams, that play in, CSGO, Rocket League, Smite, Starcraft II and Super Smash Bros.
A few of them acquired after the Crows brought Legacy. It not just one team. and yes some of the teams are single player teams or setups.
 

spexau

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They brought one of eight top-tier League of Legends professional teams competing in the Oceanic Pro League,
Basically, they brought an established team, which was cheaper than starting a new team,
Also Legacy has several different teams, that play in, CSGO, Rocket League, Smite, Starcraft II and Super Smash Bros.
A few of them acquired after the Crows brought Legacy. It not just one team. and yes some of the teams are single player teams or setups.
Exactly. We bought the Legacy organisation who had existing player contracts. Essendon did similar except they re-branded them. It's really not such a difficult concept as to why we'd buy an established eSports organisation over starting one from fresh.
 

1970crow

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Of course. But this seems easier.

Infrastructure like coach, manager, gaming houses and computer hardware
Didn't Brent Reilly become their high performance manager? And those positions aren't infrastructure, they're staff that get rolled over just like Essendon's players did. What's a gaming house? It wouldn't happen to be a house that houses gamers and their IT equipment? Not really a lot of IP there. In fact, if we were to turn over our gaming crew, you can be pretty sure that the hardware might as well leave with them because the new crew would have their own preferred equipment. But yeh, other than that, it would nearly be impossible to start a team from scratch.
 

dogs105

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Didn't Brent Reilly become their high performance manager? And those positions aren't infrastructure, they're staff that get rolled over just like Essendon's players did. What's a gaming house? It wouldn't happen to be a house that houses gamers and their IT equipment? Not really a lot of IP there. In fact, if we were to turn over our gaming crew, you can be pretty sure that the hardware might as well leave with them because the new crew would have their own preferred equipment. But yeh, other than that, it would nearly be impossible to start a team from scratch.
But why when you can just buy a team, already in the top league? And established staff and sponsors? Just pointless.
 

1970crow

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Exactly. We bought the Legacy organisation who had existing player contracts. Essendon did similar except they re-branded them. It's really not such a difficult concept as to why we'd buy an established eSports organisation over starting one from fresh.
Yeh, good business decisions generally start from paying for a loss making entity without an actual proven business plan purely because it's the internet you know.

I've seen investors lose millions of dollars in internet casinos based on the promise of burgeoning take up. And the take up was huge, problem is that that the only entities that made really good money were the software providers. Because they just sold and sold and for every good operator there were 10 with bugger all start up funds and looking to cash in on the expected million$ that were there for the taking.

Most of the people spruiking this as a good investment actually have zero idea about the business plan except to say that globally it's massive and that there's sponsorship and prizemoney. That is the full extent of their knowledge on the business model, as it is mine. But from the outside, with the little information available, it seems that most of the actual profits will be made by the league owners. They hold the rights to the streaming service and all the advertising that comes with it. They created the league knowing where there cash will come from and filled the content by offering prizemoney to participants and knowing there's an appetite for viewing these events. Their risk comes only from competing leagues but as long as gamers will enter and while there's competition against each other, the overall business model stacks up.

What needs to be explained and the question we should ask as members of the club, is how does owning a team fit into the existing business model in terms of being certain that it will benefit our reason for existence, which is winning AFL premierships. And to fit in, it needs to provide resources to assist in that singular goal.

Now that wasn't a question for any of the esports fans because I know you don't have the answers. But, as Crows fans, you shouldn't want the esports division removing resources from our AFL division. Actually perhaps that's a question that should have been asked from the beginning.

As a Crows supporter and a supporter of the Crows' esports division, are you happy for the esports division to make a loss? Only yes or no is required. We don't and won't ever know whether it does or doesn't, even if our profit figure has dived, losses outside of our core business won't be identified as contributing to the decline.
 

GreyCrow

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As a Crows supporter and a supporter of the Crows' esports division, are you happy for the esports division to make a loss? Only yes or no is required. We don't and won't ever know whether it does or doesn't, even if our profit figure has dived, losses outside of our core business won't be identified as contributing to the decline.
I agree with the tenor of your post. It smells of selling religion to me.

'' no I cant show you a benefit now but oh the future is so good if you commit ''

Thanks to feenix67 for finding a sponsors badge. It certainly wasnt on the 1st page on the search platform. And lets face it 99% of people dont go to page 2.

My questions surround the identity of the team. If I am putting $$$ into something as a maor 'sponsor' I want to see a branded package that identifies my involvement.

The differences between the Bombres and the Crows couldnt be any more stark. If I was a Bombres fan I would be stoked to see those shirts, I may not understand the game or the appeal but by golly I'd be a happy fan.
 

spexau

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Yeh, good business decisions generally start from paying for a loss making entity without an actual proven business plan purely because it's the internet you know.

I've seen investors lose millions of dollars in internet casinos based on the promise of burgeoning take up. And the take up was huge, problem is that that the only entities that made really good money were the software providers. Because they just sold and sold and for every good operator there were 10 with bugger all start up funds and looking to cash in on the expected million$ that were there for the taking.

Most of the people spruiking this as a good investment actually have zero idea about the business plan except to say that globally it's massive and that there's sponsorship and prizemoney. That is the full extent of their knowledge on the business model, as it is mine. But from the outside, with the little information available, it seems that most of the actual profits will be made by the league owners. They hold the rights to the streaming service and all the advertising that comes with it. They created the league knowing where there cash will come from and filled the content by offering prizemoney to participants and knowing there's an appetite for viewing these events. Their risk comes only from competing leagues but as long as gamers will enter and while there's competition against each other, the overall business model stacks up.

What needs to be explained and the question we should ask as members of the club, is how does owning a team fit into the existing business model in terms of being certain that it will benefit our reason for existence, which is winning AFL premierships. And to fit in, it needs to provide resources to assist in that singular goal.

Now that wasn't a question for any of the esports fans because I know you don't have the answers. But, as Crows fans, you shouldn't want the esports division removing resources from our AFL division. Actually perhaps that's a question that should have been asked from the beginning.

As a Crows supporter and a supporter of the Crows' esports division, are you happy for the esports division to make a loss? Only yes or no is required. We don't and won't ever know whether it does or doesn't, even if our profit figure has dived, losses outside of our core business won't be identified as contributing to the decline.
I was under the impression that it operates mostly as it's own entity and pays its own way with some shared resources in the media and nutrition space. Although we're not privy to such details that's the impression I've got when reading about the relationship. Legacy had been around for quite some time before our involvement so hard to say that it operates at a loss.
 

feenix67

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I agree with the tenor of your post. It smells of selling religion to me.

'' no I cant show you a benefit now but oh the future is so good if you commit ''

Thanks to feenix67 for finding a sponsors badge. It certainly wasnt on the 1st page on the search platform. And lets face it 99% of people dont go to page 2.

My questions surround the identity of the team. If I am putting $$$ into something as a maor 'sponsor' I want to see a branded package that identifies my involvement.

The differences between the Bombres and the Crows couldnt be any more stark. If I was a Bombres fan I would be stoked to see those shirts, I may not understand the game or the appeal but by golly I'd be a happy fan.
Find me a Cleveland Cavs logo here please https://shop.100thieves.com/

There's hardly a reference to the Cavs on their website.

As opposed to say this team - https://www.goldenguardians.com/ - who were actually formed by the GS Warriors (similar to the Bombers) who use the GSW logo.

The point being that, amongst gamers, the team brand has far more value and brand awareness (hence value) than the pro-sport club backing them. An established team like Legacy has more brand worth than the Crows in this space.
 

GreyCrow

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The point being that, amongst gamers, .
But my point is as a Crows fan I want to see a direct link. If the idea is to make money then show the financials, if the point is to spread the AFC brand then I dont think having a small logo on the back of the shirt is going to work

Its mostly been about glitz and glamour and if you ask hard questions its back to religion. The Promised Land is not too far away.

And I do accept I am ignorant of the esports market, but as a Crows fan I would not be alone. The ''selling'' of this to fans close to death needs a better religious marketing ploy :D
 

feenix67

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But my point is as a Crows fan I want to see a direct link. If the idea is to make money then show the financials, if the point is to spread the AFC brand then I dont think having a small logo on the back of the shirt is going to work

Its mostly been about glitz and glamour and if you ask hard questions its back to religion. The Promised Land is not too far away.

And I do accept I am ignorant of the esports market, but as a Crows fan I would not be alone. The ''selling'' of this to fans close to death needs a better religious marketing ploy :D
They're not marketing to Crows fans though.

Find me a Crows Logo here: http://web.theabl.com.au/index.jsp?sid=t4064

There are tons of examples of companies buying other companies and being largely silent and invisible. Find me a Facebook logo here for example: https://www.instagram.com/

I'm sure the "idea" with Legacy is to participate in what is seen as a growing sector with a global base. It's speculative but cheap and it provides access to markets we would not otherwise have access to at all. The Crows brand has no value in those markets, the Legacy brand does. The Crows leveraging the Legacy brand is smart. Most Crows supporters who give a shit already know we own them, and most gamers couldn't care less. What value would there be in re-branding them Crows, or re-theming them red blue and gold? None, possibly negative.

I can't see what the problem is. We've spent a piddly amount of money on a venture into another market. It's largely self funding. The team is moderately successful in this region. It can improve with the backing we are giving it. E-Sports may grow in this country over time, and we are at the ground floor of that growth, which gives us an upside and a head start. If E-Sports doesn't grow, so what? we haven't lost much, and the experience gained in the space may lead us to venture into overseas team ownership, where there is money.

It's not supposed to be a financial bonanza, although those here opposed would have us believe thats the KPI for success. It's a venture.
 

deaneus

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Of course, but they sacked the players because they're obviously not happy with some component of their investment. I'm simply suggesting that we're not into esports for any particular return on our investment, but rather just to be into esports. Essendon are seeing something not going right based upon initial expectations, we not that savvy or we don't care whether it puts money back into our footy dept or not.

I know that you'll say that it's evidence that our esports investment is providing the returns that we expected, but that would be assuming that we know what we're doing. And even the biggest club fanboi would be concerned about our decision making skills (Brett Burton as an example) in an area that we're meant to be expert at. Where did we gain all this esports knowledge and best practice understanding from? And that's assuming that there's ever going to be money in it for the team owners, which outside of sponsorship and prizemoney, I'm yet to be availed to how this investment will pay off. As far as I'm aware, our prizemoney is $0 so far.
Essendon came 7th in a tournament, (of 8) sacked everyone.

We came third in that same tournament.
 

Mego Red

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Then why did we purchase a team? Surely we'd just recruit players and start our own and enter them in a league.

Edit- rhetorical question. There's no razzle dazzle in just starting a team. To get the cheer squad going you've got to acquire one.
There's existing infrastructure, sponsorships and relationships that Legacy already held, plus some brand equity.

You're a funny one, always looking for things to shit on.
 

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Essendon came 7th in a tournament, (of 8) sacked everyone.

We came third in that same tournament.

Also what a few don't understand is Legacy has turned over just as many players in the past year. along acquiring and Overwatch and Rocket league teams, both which have had there player roster replaced or undergoing replacement recently
The Rocket league team have recently turned over its entire player roster (4 Players) only kept the team manager, currently in the process of recruiting for next season. and that team has finished in the top-two in the Throwdown OCE Championships and placed third in the Throwdown OCE Open Series.
While Overwatch has change 4 out of 6 players basically a new roster in prep for season 3.

Just a reminder to a few, Legacy is more than one team, they currently have 6 teams with 29 players not including Managers.
The teams are in the League of legends (6), Counter-Strike (5), Overwatch (6), Rocket League (4), Starcraft (7) and Smash (1).
Note some of these players are emergencies.
 

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