Opinion Crows Chat: Footy discussions with a difference

[jaytex]

Having "bad form Harto" out is fine. Having 2016 version "good form Harto" out is not so good.

agreed. he's appeared to struggle most games this year so I'm not totally unhappy he misses a few.

 

[arrowman]

On Pyke, I know that he can give a hell of a serve to the players and has done a couple of times this year, but he makes sure that it is done behind closed doors where we can't see it.

Yeah, you see, there's our problem. Closed roasting sessions.

Our club has lost its soul

 

[FantasticShirt]

agreed. he's appeared to struggle most games this year so I'm not totally unhappy he misses a few.

He was in brilliant form early in the year. Go check out the Showdown where he smashed Robbie Gray

 

[mistylake]

He was in brilliant form early in the year. Go check out the Showdown where he smashed Robbie Gray

He did, but he's lost his Mojo lately. He's not alone though and I really want to see the dude in action.

 

[mistylake]

To me the absolute positive out of what was otherwise a pretty meh game, was that we were headed, but fought back to win. We haven't been doing that. Really important to instil the belief that we can. And I don't care it was Carlton - they've had a couple of good wins this year against quality opposition. Now we've got to really come to play against the Doggies. The old cliche... one game at a time.

I think the injury to Hartigan may be a good thing for both the Club and him. He's really struggled this year (needs to get his body right and find the hunger again), and I think our defence has been brittle (not sure if that's the right word or not). I'm sure Otten will come in for him, though I'd really love to Seedsman back at some stage.

Pyke was pretty resolute at our breakfast when asked about plans b c d and e. He thinks it's pretty funny. The supposed reason you need a plan b is because the players aren't executing the main plan. But if they aren't executing the main plan, what makes you think they'll execute the second plan any better? It's clear that he does make changes at times during games - from zones to man on man, to dropping a loose man back etc etc. They aren't plan B's, they are just different strategies within the main game plan. But I think he probably is Craig-like in his belief that if players just stick to and execute the game plan properly, we win. I think it will be interesting to watch the next 8 games unfold.

I thought a plan B was for when the plan A is not working, even if it's being implemented correctly. If you do the same thing all the time teams will directly plan to overcome it. There is no point persisting with it when it has become ineffective, at that moment you need to go to an alternate method.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I thought a plan B was for when the plan A is not working, even if it's being implemented correctly. If you do the same thing all the time teams will directly plan to overcome it. There is no point persisting with it when it has become ineffective, at that moment you need to go to an alternate method.

But is it a complete overhaul that is required for every player or is it just a tweak in one or more areas of the game plan? That is how I understand Pyke was talking about in that this idea that the media and supporters use about a 'plan B' is not the reality if what coaching in AFL is actually like in respect to game plans. It is more like we tweak parts of it depending on what isn't working for us, or what the opposition is doing. I would say that our plan A does work when everyone is executing to it (see early season form). So on that basis our plan A when being implemented correctly, will work. Look at Hawthorn over their dominant period. Everyone knew what their plan A was. Every team tried to counter it. Most failed.

 

[CrowBloke]

So on that basis our plan A when being implemented correctly, will work. Look at Hawthorn over their dominant period. Everyone knew what their plan A was. Every team tried to counter it. Most failed.

Thoughtfully argued, sensible conclusion.
Hawthorn were a tight, hard, cohesive unit (Brisbane too, 2001-3). The Hawks' on-field discipline in enacting their team plan --- fierce attack on the ball, pressure, toughness and elite footskills which led to quick uncontested position movement (which the Crows did even better in our first 6 rounds) --- was maniacal, and after they'd won some close games and come back from being around 5 goals down to win, their self-belief in their ability to win any game, from any situation and in any conditions was almost irresistible. The Hawks' and Brisbane's hat-tricks were awesomely, annoyingly brilliant.

 

[mistylake]

Thoughtfully argued, sensible conclusion.
Hawthorn were a tight, hard, cohesive unit (Brisbane too, 2001-3). The Hawks' on-field discipline in enacting their team plan --- fierce attack on the ball, pressure, toughness and elite footskills which led to quick uncontested position movement (which the Crows did even better in our first 6 rounds) --- was maniacal, and after they'd won some close games and come back from being around 5 goals down to win, their self-belief in their ability to win any game, from any situation and in any conditions was almost irresistible. The Hawks' and Brisbane's hat-tricks were awesomely, annoyingly brilliant.

Yes it was brilliant.
Then it stopped. Why.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yes it was brilliant.
Then it stopped. Why.

Lost many of their best players.

Apparently we have been working on our ball movement to counter opposition who put extras in defence... so if we can get this right, it would go some way to having a plan B.

 

[John Who]

I think everyone gets too caught up with the Plan A or Plan B scenario, as if there are only 2 or 3 sets of plans. Honestly, if any team plays with the right mental attitude, and 100% disposal efficiency, any plan from a toddler would win you a match!
The key is the mental attitude from the Crows players, and not enough pro-activity going on when the heat is turned on. It is also about adapting to the opposition's gamestyle and exploiting opposition's weaknesses. So every game would have to have different gameplans, around the same team structures.
The Carlton win was actually the first time this year that Crows were staying focused to the plan of 'attack when able to and defend when need be' (when in the last quarter up for grabs).

 

[NikkiNoo]

I think everyone gets too caught up with the Plan A or Plan B scenario, as if there are only 2 or 3 sets of plans. Honestly, if any team plays with the right mental attitude, and 100% disposal efficiency, any plan from a toddler would win you a match!
The key is the mental attitude from the Crows players, and not enough pro-activity going on when the heat is turned on. It is also about adapting to the opposition's gamestyle and exploiting opposition's weaknesses. So every game would have to have different gameplans, around the same team structures.
The Carlton win was actually the first time this year that Crows were staying focused to the plan of 'attack when able to and defend when need be' (when in the last quarter up for grabs).

I said it on the podcast this week (both on Sunday and on Tuesday) that this was the first time I've seen our midfield quickly switch from our attacking set up to a defensive concerted set up once the ball was in Carlton's hands. It was how mindful we were of Cripps being their main outlet player that I found quite intriguing to watch.

 

[CrowBloke]

The key is the mental attitude from the Crows players, and not enough pro-activity going on when the heat is turned on. It is also about adapting to the opposition's gamestyle and exploiting opposition's weaknesses. So every game would have to have different gameplans, around the same team structures.
The Carlton win was actually the first time this year that Crows were staying focused to the plan of 'attack when able to and defend when need be' (when in the last quarter up for grabs).

This!
Really good points.

 

[CrowBloke]

Yes it was brilliant.
Then it stopped. Why.

Fair question. I dunno, for sure. Kane McG pointed out:

Lost many of their best players.

Oppositions might have found ways to counter the Hawks.
Players get older, a bit slower, take longer to recover.
Could also be a loss-of-hunger factor. Most players who play never win a Flag. THREE would be awesome, thrilling, but also satisfying.

As a side-issue re: hunger, it always amazes me how Champions like Federer/Sampras even our own Hewitt have been able to sustain their intense competitive hunger for so many years. Compare that to the pathetic comments made by Tomic --- "I know I'll play another 10 years and then I'll never have to work again" (paraphrased, and I doubt very much that he'll be playing for another 10 years; no tournaments will want him). I'd say some footy players have a similar, self-satisfied, what's-the-point attitude, getting paid around 20K/game, as long as they do OK etc.

 

[Thetrader15]

Yeah, you see, there's our problem. Closed roasting sessions.

Our club has lost its soul

That's not from the Blighty play book

 

[Thetrader15]

But is it a complete overhaul that is required for every player or is it just a tweak in one or more areas of the game plan? That is how I understand Pyke was talking about in that this idea that the media and supporters use about a 'plan B' is not the reality if what coaching in AFL is actually like in respect to game plans. It is more like we tweak parts of it depending on what isn't working for us, or what the opposition is doing. I would say that our plan A does work when everyone is executing to it (see early season form). So on that basis our plan A when being implemented correctly, will work. Look at Hawthorn over their dominant period. Everyone knew what their plan A was. Every team tried to counter it. Most failed.

Plan A worked in the 1st 6 weeks with the defensive structures of the oppo. To say it works under all circumstances is like saying a Ferrari will always win a race...great, unless you then have to race in a 4wd course

 

[marty36]

This week could be enormous we win and the hawks knock off gws in tassie

We will be on top of the table
# 1




On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[John Who]

This week will be a serious statement on where we want to be, and how far we want to go in the Major rounds. Honestly don't care who goes in or out of the side in the next few weeks. I just want to see the mindset and the application of pressure acts on ALL our players. The next few games is kind of like the 'major rounds' before the Major rounds. Dogs, Demons then Cats. Time now to put the foot on the pedal!

 

[marty36]

This week will be a serious statement on where we want to be, and how far we want to go in the Major rounds. Honestly don't care who goes in or out of the side in the next few weeks. I just want to see the mindset and the application of pressure acts on ALL our players. The next few games is kind of like the 'major rounds' before the Major rounds. Dogs, Demons then Cats. Time now to put the foot on the pedal!

Season is in balance tex Sloane Talia and betts are going to have a huge say in this period


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Season is in balance tex Sloane Talia and betts are going to have a huge say in this period


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

As will the other 18 players, because we usually lose when we are carrying too many passengers.

 

[God IsThatYou]

This week will be a serious statement on where we want to be, and how far we want to go in the Major rounds. Honestly don't care who goes in or out of the side in the next few weeks. I just want to see the mindset and the application of pressure acts on ALL our players. The next few games is kind of like the 'major rounds' before the Major rounds. Dogs, Demons then Cats. Time now to put the foot on the pedal!

momentum and belief is everything. it can all start and be ignited through one act, in one moment. it can right the wrongs of the season and get everyone to buy in again. or it can peter out without a whimper come September. I will be looking for any good signs of this build up heading into september.

 

[John Who]

Season is in balance tex Sloane Talia and betts are going to have a huge say in this period


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Like I said, ALL our players. Leadership is important no doubt, but so are passengers turning into reliable players. We need all our men playing like a Tyson Edwards - hardness and reliability. We definitely have the weapons, but it's more to do with the consistency of usage of these weapons.

 

[FantasticShirt]

The more I've thought about it I don't actually mind the Thompson selection. He's on the list and worth a shot at some time, you know he'll go in hard at a contest. It's just going to be whether his lack of pace will be an issue. But with Cameron back in, and Beech coming back in, we're probably a quicker side than last week.

Even though it's not forecast to be pouring with rain, it will be wet and greasy conditions, and Bulldogs are a great contested ball side which won them a GF last year. We know Thompson will get in and give it a crack. Greenwood will be back.

Otten vs Doedee is a more difficult one for me. We know Otten is a very smart footballer and a great KPD, whether the pace of Doedee would've be useful we'll have to wait and see.

 

[dogs105]

I hope Thommo Otten and Cameron all play blinders. I would have preferred doedee & greenwood, but they're Crows players and I support them when they run out. Hoping players stuff up and pointing out every mistake is a s**t thing to do.

 

[Twist_of_Lemon]

As will the other 18 players, because we usually lose when we are carrying too many passengers.

Exactly this.

Its great when the stars align and we get to see the likes of Walker and Sloane both have game-winning performances, but to get through a finals campaign we always seem to stumble when the bit-players aren't able to stand up and do their part. Happens way too often in football and isn't particular to us of course. I'd just sorely love to see the team click into gear like the Dogs managed last year during the finals, where every player was doing their bit to a level that held up in the finals.

 

[FantasticShirt]

I hope Thommo Otten and Cameron all play blinders. I would have preferred doedee & greenwood, but they're Crows players and I support them when they run out. Hoping players stuff up and pointing out every mistake is a s**t thing to do.

There's a weird group polarization going on around here lately. And I'm guilty of getting sucked in. This week has gone to a new extreme. Anyone would think we're bottom of the ladder.