Crows Culture - good/bad/on par?

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Slippery Pete

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2010
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That's fun culture, not good culture.
The former is never sustainable.
That wasn’t my question, though.

People often describe it as a bad culture, but it’s a culture that provided a premiership.

If a “bad” culture can deliver what the game is all about, then you really have to question how nebulous the concept of “culture” is in a football sense.

I said in that other thread that acquiring and retaining talent (players, coaches, managers, recruiters, administrators) is what wins premierships. “Culture” is an absolutely meaningless nebulous construct unless the word “winning” comes before it.

This game is about winning premierships. Literally nothing else matters. Nothing.
 

Ramify

Premiership Player
Oct 15, 2012
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That wasn’t my question, though.

People often describe it as a bad culture, but it’s a culture that provided a premiership.

If a “bad” culture can deliver what the game is all about, then you really have to question how nebulous the concept of “culture” is in a football sense.

I said in that other thread that acquiring and retaining talent (players, coaches, managers, recruiters, administrators) is what wins premierships. “Culture” is an absolutely meaningless nebulous construct unless the word “winning” comes before it.

This game is about winning premierships. Literally nothing else matters. Nothing.
WestCoast 06 = Hardcore dance party where everyone is popping pingers, racking lines and on the juice. The place is humming, everyone loves each other and they are all winners in their own minds.
It's a winning environment for a short time until 11am the next year when the all spew out onto the footpath and the spit goes down. This is a bad,unsustainable winning culture.

Vs

Insert successful club here = Players/staff are naturally positive, train hard, are selfless or willing to self sacrifice, back each other to the point of bleeding, have strong inspiring leadership and are all on the same page all without pingers or juice. This is a good winning culture that is sustainable so long as the ethos is perpetuated. This is why so many clubs target Hawks assistant coaches. Not because they get the good gear, but because they understand what Good culture is.

I'm not suggesting there isn't crossover but there is Good winning culture and Bad winning culture. One is sustainable the other ends in tears.
 
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Slippery Pete

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 19, 2010
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WestCoast 06 = Hardcore dance party where everyone is popping pingers, racking lines and on the juice. The place is humming, everyone loves each other and they are all winners in their own minds.
It's a winning environment for a short time until 11am the next year when the all spew out onto the footpath and the spit goes down. This is a bad,unsustainable winning culture.

Vs

Insert successful club here = Players/staff are naturally positive, train hard, are selfless or willing to self sacrifice, back each other to the point of bleeding, have strong inspiring leadership and are all on the same page all without pingers or juice. This is a good winning culture that is sustainable so long as the ethos is perpetuated. This is why people so many clubs target Hawks assistant coaches. Not because they get the good gear, but because they understand what Good culture is.

I'm not suggesting there isn't crossover but there is Good winning culture and Bad winning culture. One is sustainable the other ends in tears.

Nothing there I disagree with.

So it goes

Hawthorn (Clarkson) culture > West Coast 06 culture > AFC recent culture
 

Ramify

Premiership Player
Oct 15, 2012
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Nothing there I disagree with.

So it goes

Hawthorn (Clarkson) culture > West Coast 06 culture > AFC recent culture
I'd say so.Definitely.

To be honest, I think we have suffered a fair bit by being a bit too much Anti-WestCoast 06.
I'm not saying hit the clubs hard but Ive noticed a big attitude shift from the day we instigated a drinking/fraternising ban and curfew way back when.
Before that, players would be seen out and about having a laugh as a group all the time. Not that I go out much these days but I'm guessing it's even worse now.
Adelaide is goldfish bowl enough already. The way we locked down on our players must take a lot of fun out of it for them. For what? Protection of the clubs conservative Image?

I'm guessing Hawks have got the mix between AFC and WC06 pretty spot on.
 
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John Who

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 16, 2017
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WestCoast 06 = Hardcore dance party where everyone is popping pingers, racking lines and on the juice. The place is humming, everyone loves each other and they are all winners in their own minds.
It's a winning environment for a short time until 11am the next year when the all spew out onto the footpath and the spit goes down. This is a bad,unsustainable winning culture.

Vs

Insert successful club here = Players/staff are naturally positive, train hard, are selfless or willing to self sacrifice, back each other to the point of bleeding, have strong inspiring leadership and are all on the same page all without pingers or juice. This is a good winning culture that is sustainable so long as the ethos is perpetuated. This is why people so many clubs target Hawks assistant coaches. Not because they get the good gear, but because they understand what Good culture is.

I'm not suggesting there isn't crossover but there is Good winning culture and Bad winning culture. One is sustainable the other ends in tears.
Interesting we’re talking WCE culture. Seems like Cousins was the main bad boy rather than the entire club?
They’ve since won the premiership last year, and who external to the club is currently thinking “Eagles have got a poor culture”?

Suggests to me that a winning culture is the key point, and other background issues are just extra gossip features, rather than anything concrete that all fans can agree on.
 
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SaltPeter

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Interesting we’re talking WCE culture. Seems like Cousins was the main bad boy rather than the entire club?
They’ve since won the premiership last year, and who external to the club is currently thinking “Eagles have got a poor culture”?

Suggests to me that a winning culture is the key point, and other background issues are just extra gossip features, rather than anything concrete that all fans can agree on.
A large proportion of the playing group. Think Daniel Chick, Daniel Kerr, Michael Gardiner, Chad Fletcher as a good starting point ..


Chris Judd was never implicated in being involved, however there were plenty of rumours in Perth about the now Mrs Judd and her love of powdering her nose
 

John Who

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A large proportion of the playing group. Think Daniel Chick, Daniel Kerr, Michael Gardiner, Chad Fletcher as a good starting point ..


Chris Judd was never implicated in being involved, however there were plenty of rumours in Perth about the now Mrs Judd and her love of powdering her nose
Did you actually remember all the stuff in this post?
I would imagine the average footy fan wouldn’t even remember any of that, nor would they care much to remember. The mere fact WCE won last season, and I don’t think I saw anyone referencing their drug culture back in 06.
 

SaltPeter

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Did you actually remember all the stuff in this post?
I would imagine the average footy fan wouldn’t even remember any of that, nor would they care much to remember. The mere fact WCE won last season, and I don’t think I saw anyone referencing their drug culture back in 06.
I was Perth based for 20 odd years. These guys were constantly in news, a lot of the time when they f’ed up. It wasn't really much of a secret
 

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John Who

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I was Perth based for 20 odd years. These guys were constantly in news, a lot of the time when they f’ed up. It wasn't really much of a secret
That would make sense how you can remember all that. If I did a poll right now, I bet the average fan would only remember Cousins and not the names you mentioned.

The point still stands, a “winning culture” is what most people remember. This wasn’t my original point by the way, I’m just agreeing with Slippery Pete on this one.
 

Mike Smyth

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Oct 8, 2012
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Lol. We really thread asking this question. If you are looking for the answer look no further than the talent, both on and off the field, who have walked out over the last decade.

Close thread.
 

Alwaysacrow

Club Legend
Jul 8, 2016
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AFC culture finally well defined by Charlie Cameron tonight on 7 news interview. Explained the reason why he left stating that he didn't feel he could play his best footy here. It goes a long way to exposing the treatment of some our younger players including Fog and Jones.
Whoever is responsible for this happening should be shown the door IMMEDIATELY!!!
 

Morning_Fog

Premiership Player
Jun 24, 2018
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Did he expand on that? Was it that he couldn't because of X or Y reason or just that he 'couldn't', leaving it open ended as to why?

Felt like he wasn’t best 22
Didn’t believe he could play his best footy
Wasn’t happy in Adelaide

Sounds like he wasn’t being filled with any sort of confidence from his line coaches. Disappointing as he would be a massive advantage to us now.
 

Morning_Fog

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Cheers, so nothing pointed toward anything in particular at all really.

Would love someone in the inside at some point just to flat out state the issue(s) and end all the inuendo.
Hopefully this review will flush all that stuff out.

Then we can move forward and have every pull in the same direction.
 

finn

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Interesting thing I’ve heard from people coming into the club (and Crows supporters at that) to do jobs is that the players and staff don’t say hello or shoot the breeze while, when they’re doing the same job at Port, they get chatted to.

It’s only a little thing but it helps add to a feeling of belonging and openness.

They also say that this doesn’t happen with the women’s team; indeed the feeling that one’s a club and a game and one where it’s a job.

It certainly doesn’t mean that the players aren’t invested but perhaps an indication of this is Jacobs not playing SANFL finals while he’s available to do so.

Personally, I think that the sheer fact that there is no social club where players interact with supporters as such adds to this feeling.
 

douglyzia

Premiership Player
Sep 24, 2006
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Burton + Campo = Bad

I'm conflicted with Cameron's statement. As a Crows supporter, I almost want to say fu** you, Charles. Then I look at Burton, and then say, yeah, I'd probably want to leave too.
 

douglyzia

Premiership Player
Sep 24, 2006
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Oh by the way, Scott Thompson after he retired, in an interview with 5AA, said DEFINITIVELY there was something about the club that made players want to leave, although he did not explicitly specify what it was.

Maybe this ******* "external" review should get ahold of him to find out what exactly TF he was referring to?!
 

doppelganger47

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2008
3,230
826
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Culture is the same at all work places. There's hierarchy, there's favouritism, there's judgment, there's cliques and sometimes you get a mass exodus of unhappy workers. There's loyalty, but sometimes it makes it harder to rid of those who are just bad at their jobs. You have your friends at work and those you just don't get along with, but you still do your job and you try to be professional about it. Can't say there's many places where everyone is happy and get along with each other at work.
 

MelbourneCrow

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Aug 16, 2009
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Following on from these comments about the young players not feeling part of it, I used to be the biggest loud mouth yelling stuff at Gunston when we played the Hawks, then one day after yet another one left us I just thought why should I have a go at Gunston, some of these blokes clearly believe they have no compelling reason to stay at the club. It must by a club thing rather than a player thing....we're clearly not like Sydney in that regard.

As for Charlie not having confidence from his 'line coaches', his line coach was Teague and that would contradict everything else I've heard about him. I would however like to know how CC went from playing four good games a season for us, to playing only four 'non-good' games a season for the Lions!
 

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