Crows make three changes

[pjcrows]

What didn’t I know? I know his opponents/where he played ect. The only thing I can’t comment on is whether he’s turned up to training on time which is a stupid question. Did Doughty not show up on time this week? Was Shirley late last week, but on time this week? See how pointless these questions are?


OK jenny. So Mattner’s a great defender and in good form is he? Last week he gave away a couple of stupid frees, as well as being run down deep in defence which cost us a goal. Not to mention his ability to stop his opponent wasn’t flash. Pfeiffer’s been playing great in defence and has a build that allows him to play at the top level. I think this was a very realistic swap.


I will continue to support the Crows, but the changes to the team were just ridiculous. Go back and look at my review of the game last week, I praised Gill, Perrie, Welsh and I gave POTY votes. I’m not always negative, only when the teams come out and they will do no favours to our chances of winning.


Your only in arguments because you DON’T question things, others do, and you bag them.


I'm glad Shirley was dropped last week, not glad he's back in. I'm glad Doughty has been dropped, won't be glad if he's back next week.

jenny, you would think the Crows are sitting comfortably in the top 4 the way you carry on. Fact is this team is massively underperforming and we’re not going to make the finals. We’re on a 3 game losing streak and have lost 6 of out past 8 games. We’re really struggling at present so how bringing in Pfeiffer would make this team any worse is beyond me.

You sure are patronising for a young bloke, Drummond. I bet Mark Aiston is watching his back.

 

[pjcrows]

so basically your saying every year neil craig will try the same old players week in week out until its mathematically impossible to make the finals.. and then the last couple of rounds bring in a youngster or 2.. gee wot an exciting future we have.

Oh for God's sake. Neil Craig hasn't NEEDED to play youngsters since he took over because we've been in the Top 4. Why change the team up when you are successful?!?! And we aren't even out of the Top 8 race yet this year and people want us to debut 8 players within 3 weeks.

IT JUST DOESNT HAPPEN!

 

[jmorg1]

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Footy is a strange game... if it works for this week (and he shuts Burgoyne down and we win) then it will be worth it. I agree that neither of these players are the future of the club, and in all likelihood will be gone next year. I do however believe that Neil Craig is still trying to get into the finals. Otherwise he'd be playing all the young fellas. Dropping Campbell after half a game, is no more bizarre than dropping Jericho after what had been his best ever game for the club. They do it because they do what they think is best for the match-ups and team structure on the day.

Even if Shirley shuts down S Burgoyne (which i highly doubt) it is not worth it unless Shirley is going to be part of our next successful finals campaign. Injuries and form dictate that wont be this year, and if he is our best defensive midfielder next year it probably wont be then either.

I for one cannot believe the false dichotomy created between a) playing youngsters and b) trying to win/make finals. Yes playing 5 debutants in one week is skewed (creating a false argument from extremes) but there is nothing to suggest a less experienced but better, in-form player will have worse output than an average, out of form, experienced player. Look at on a case-by-case basis. For instance, I wouldn't be playing Douglas or Sellar this year but would be playing Pfeiffer and Campbell (and i'm a Bays fan...but i guess that helps for finals) In any case, 1 game does not make an argument when building for the future (even for finals in 4 weeks for the optimists out there).

Agreed re Jericho...add him to the 'confidence ruined by selection' list (though i dont see him in our best 22).

 

[jenny61_99]

If we fall out of the finals race, we have a right to do a Drummond if the youngsters aren't given a go on mass & rest all the players carrying niggling injuries.

Nobody has a right to do a Drummond!

And under normal circumstances, the younger players would have had a run before now. Unfortunately earlier in the season, many of them were injured or not in form, and now that they are in form and fit, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of deciding whether we "risk" playing them and potentially forfeiting our season. Yes I know the odds are very low of us making the finals now, however, as long as there is a chance, I would expect the Club and coach to move heaven and earth in an effort to get us there. If that means not taking too many risks then sobeit. I would expect that once this window of opportunity is closed, the young fellas will be falling out of the rafters.

Drummond, I refuse to continue your point by point ridiculous argument because you clearly dont get it. Come back and talk when you take the Norwood blinkers off.

 

[adelaide_girl]

So Drummond the 99.9% of us who disagree with you are all wrong, and the .1% are right. Wow.... Or are we all little drones. You have no idea what is discussed or what is expected, or if those expectations are met. Or do you, I don't and none of the rest of us do either other than the 4 or 5 who sit in on Match selection.

You don't debate, just state an opinion, someone asks you a question you blatantly ignore them, I have asked several over the past weeks and have never had an answer once.

Perhaps if you were to show the posters on this board some respect, you may just get it back.

Question one. Are you a paid member?

Question 2 - Care of smoovy Drummond, could you post your 22 to play port as you would have them line up on Saturday night?

Debate goes 2 ways and you reap what you sow....

 

[adelaide_girl]

Nobody has a right to do a Drummond!

And under normal circumstances, the younger players would have had a run before now. Unfortunately earlier in the season, many of them were injured or not in form, and now that they are in form and fit, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of deciding whether we "risk" playing them and potentially forfeiting our season. Yes I know the odds are very low of us making the finals now, however, as long as there is a chance, I would expect the Club and coach to move heaven and earth in an effort to get us there. If that means not taking too many risks then sobeit. I would expect that once this window of opportunity is closed, the young fellas will be falling out of the rafters.

Drummond, I refuse to continue your point by point ridiculous argument because you clearly dont get it. Come back and talk when you take the Norwood blinkers off.

Jenny what you have said tonight is spot on

 

[crowsarethebest]

If we lose against Port and the young'uns aren't brought in I'll be pissed off. Ah well. Obviously NC thinks he's still a chance to make finals. Campbell ommitted after one game is a disgrace. Sure he is mature age... but NC you played him for half the mach only. He got 8 possessions... what more do you want from a first gamer. Shirley in- Hopefully someone has told him that his role in the side is to TAG. The amount of possessions he gets is a bonus. Just keep it simple. TAG. Good to see Porps back in after a blinder. Dougie should get an extended run on-ball please.

 

[jenny61_99]

Even if Shirley shuts down S Burgoyne (which i highly doubt) it is not worth it unless Shirley is going to be part of our next successful finals campaign. Injuries and form dictate that wont be this year, and if he is our best defensive midfielder next year it probably wont be then either.

I for one cannot believe the false dichotomy created between a) playing youngsters and b) trying to win/make finals. Yes playing 5 debutants in one week is skewed (creating a false argument from extremes) but there is nothing to suggest a less experienced but better, in-form player will have worse output than an average, out of form, experienced player. Look at on a case-by-case basis. For instance, I wouldn't be playing Douglas or Sellar this year but would be playing Pfeiffer and Campbell (and i'm a Bays fan...but i guess that helps for finals) In any case, 1 game does not make an argument when building for the future (even for finals in 4 weeks for the optimists out there).

Agreed re Jericho...add him to the 'confidence ruined by selection' list (though i dont see him in our best 22).

I beg to differ. As long as Neil Craig believes he is still trying to achieve finals footy THIS year, massive risks will not be taken. And as I said above, once this is no longer an option, the young blokes will all get a run.

I see what you are saying re the in-form, inexperienced versus the out-of-form experienced player, however I still think experience accounts for a whole lot in pressure games. Not only is this game a showdown (one of our highest pressure games of the year) it is also our last chance to stay alive for the season. I am pretty sure that's where the selections have come from this week and for no other reason than that. Everything else being equal (not a match we have to win), I'd also play the young blokes.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

1. Campbell dropped, after one game.

2. Shirley back in, yes, he will guide us to our next premiership.

3. Douglas back after an average SANFL game last week.

4. WHERE THE FREAKING HECK IS PFEIFFER?

5. Pfeiffer isn't even an emergency.

6. Jericho is an emergency.

I am not for or against any specific poster on this board but it seems i am in the .1% minority this week as i agree with all points here except i am 50:50 re point 4, though i lean towards agreeing.

For criticism from the majority my Ins would have been Porplyzia and Pfeiffer for Doughty and, unfortunately, Reilly. If Reilly wasn't injured Pfeiffer would have waited another week.

 

[pjcrows]

So Drummond the 99.9% of us who disagree with you are all wrong, and the .1% are right. Wow.... Or are we all little drones. You have no idea what is discussed or what is expected, or if those expectations are met. Or do you, I don't and none of the rest of us do either other than the 4 or 5 who sit in on Match selection.

You don't debate, just state an opinion, someone asks you a question you blatantly ignore them, I have asked several over the past weeks and have never had an answer once.

Perhaps if you were to show the posters on this board some respect, you may just get it back.

Question one. Are you a paid member?

Question 2 - Care of smoovy Drummond, could you post your 22 to play port as you would have them line up on Saturday night?

Debate goes 2 ways and you reap what you sow....

OWNED!

 

[- PC -]

Even if Shirley shuts down S Burgoyne (which i highly doubt) it is not worth it unless Shirley is going to be part of our next successful finals campaign. Injuries and form dictate that wont be this year, and if he is our best defensive midfielder next year it probably wont be then either.

.

So let me get this straight. You dont want Rob Shirley full stop?

 

[ThePeckers]

Shirley can tag Port Adelaides bench.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

Ok I've had enough it's time to opt in to this debate, I agree with one of the decisions, that being to drop Michael Doughty, however there are some other blokes that need to go back to the SANFL. Ok Van Berlo needs to go, Goodwin as well and that old champ Torney...time to go boys. Now while I'm at it there's a couple of paps that need to make the move as well namely Brogan and Lade. There you go some sensible non debatle moves, roll on Saturday, thanks for reading.










GO YOU PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Crow Envy]

Shirley is back because he has a good record against Shaun Burgoyne.
Lose this one then guys like Pfeiffer and Campbell will be in for the rest of the season, well they should be anyway.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I beg to differ. As long as Neil Craig believes he is still trying to achieve finals footy THIS year, massive risks will not be taken. And as I said above, once this is no longer an option, the young blokes will all get a run.

I see what you are saying re the in-form, inexperienced versus the out-of-form experienced player, however I still think experience accounts for a whole lot in pressure games. Not only is this game a showdown (one of our highest pressure games of the year) it is also our last chance to stay alive for the season. I am pretty sure that's where the selections have come from this week and for no other reason than that. Everything else being equal (not a match we have to win), I'd also play the young blokes.

I've got a theory that one factor you can look at in a player coming in for debut or after a long lay off (other factors such as talent being equal) as a determinant of how well they adjust to the sudden jump in level of a pressure game is what I'll group together loosely as mongrel/arrogance/aggression/white-line fever/'bad-boy' persona. As a huge generalisation these blokes cope with the extra pressure while the average bloke will play to their current standard of experience, body size.

I don't know him personally but this description seems to fit the way Pfeiffer is portrayed. He may or may not be a mild-mannered, unassuming nice guy (like Douglas?) but i hope he isn't! If he has the talent to match an abundance of arrogance and confidence he may well adapt to AFL very quickly, and inspire a few of his lagging teammates along the way.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I love the way Port supporters are talking this up as a really hard game to pick. If they really are a genuine premiership, they should win this and win it easy. I get the feeling they are trying to convince themselves that we are still a really good side, so if they do beat us they have somehow eradicated the problem they have with big bodied, defensive teams. I think they maybe in for a shock if they think we are some sort of measuring stick. A fully fit Geelong or Sydney will be a completely different test than an injury riddled Adelaide.

 

[Drummond]

Nobody has a right to do a Drummond!

And under normal circumstances, the younger players would have had a run before now. Unfortunately earlier in the season, many of them were injured or not in form, and now that they are in form and fit, we find ourselves in the unenviable position of deciding whether we "risk" playing them and potentially forfeiting our season. Yes I know the odds are very low of us making the finals now, however, as long as there is a chance, I would expect the Club and coach to move heaven and earth in an effort to get us there. If that means not taking too many risks then sobeit. I would expect that once this window of opportunity is closed, the young fellas will be falling out of the rafters.

Drummond, I refuse to continue your point by point ridiculous argument because you clearly dont get it. Come back and talk when you take the Norwood blinkers off.

Oh under "normal circumstances" eh? Give me a break. We're 12th on the ladder, lost 6 of our past 8 matches, are one of the worst form teams of the competition, and yet you refuse to play the youngsters.

I really, really struggle to see how playing Pfeiffer over a guy like Shirley would be forfeiting our season. You said yourself you’ve never seen Pfeiffer play, so how the heck would you know if he’s ready to play or not? You just look at his DOB and games played and therefore make up your mind up that he’s not ready to play.

It is truly staggering how unbelievably short sighted you are. You refuse to go point by point in this argument because you have absolutely no clue. You harp on how we’re still a chance to play finals football and as a result we cannot play any youngsters because they’ll surely stuff up our chance to get there! Playing a guy like Pfeiffer over Shirley WOULD NOT be forfeiting our season. If these guys like Shirley, Doughty, Mattner were so good and they excelled in their positions, why then are we 12th on the ladder? Playing the youth wouldn’t make this team any worse that what we currently are. You can’t see this because you’ve never seen the potential replacements and you’re too busy dreaming about the warm and fuzzy feeling you would get about making up the numbers.

So Drummond the 99.9% of us who disagree with you are all wrong, and the .1% are right. Wow.... Or are we all little drones. You have no idea what is discussed or what is expected, or if those expectations are met. Or do you, I don't and none of the rest of us do either other than the 4 or 5 who sit in on Match selection.

You don't debate, just state an opinion, someone asks you a question you blatantly ignore them, I have asked several over the past weeks and have never had an answer once.

Perhaps if you were to show the posters on this board some respect, you may just get it back.

Question one. Are you a paid member?

Question 2 - Care of smoovy Drummond, could you post your 22 to play port as you would have them line up on Saturday night?

Let's have a Q&A session; I will answer anything you like seeing as though I've 'dodged' all these questions.

1. No

2.

FB: Johncock, Stevens, McLeod
CHB: Pfeiffer, Bock, Torney
C: Mattner, Goodwin, van Berlo
CHF: Burton, Perrie, Porplyzia
FF: Welsh, McGregor, Gill
1R: Hudson, Thompson, Edwards
INT: Maric, Campbell, Knights, Massie

 

[CrowHop]

Lets check a few facts here. IMO :

1) Campbell was unlucky to be dropped but Douglas comes back in. Don't really see the point but no big deal really. 1 youngster in for another.

2) Porplyzia for Reilly. Happy with that. Porplyzia is proven class. Super hands and quality in front of goal. Quality player that should be played at every opportunity.

3) Shirley for Doughty. Happy with this move. Burgoyne is one of the champions of the AFL no doubt about it. Shut Burgoyne down and we go a long way to winning the game. Shirley is the best bet for this situation. Doughty out wont cost us anything.

This is as simple as it gets. We can argue about the finer points of the situation such as Pfeiffer missing out, Campbell dropped, was Craig right/wrong etc etc, but realistically, there isnt much to argue about here is there ? Really ?

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

How can it work? They have given terrific service in terms of effort and dedication but they have only given adequate service in terms of performance...not the type of service in my mind that deserves additional chances. IF you are not the best option, sentiment does not come into it...obviously the club believe Shirley is worth perservering with...i don't. He had a short purple patch earlier in the season but has now reverted to worse than he ever was. Both are average players, no more no less. This is the AFL. The AFC should care about winning premierships. Doughty and Shirley have had their whole careers to perform. There is nothing to suggest they deserve a 'wake-up' call as if they are going to return as consistently very good players contributing to a premiership team.

I am a Douglas (and Glenelg) fan regarding his potential but he has looked hopelessly out of his depth at times this year. It seems to me his development would be best served by another big pre-season to get his body ready to compete on-ball with confidence. BUT if the club believe his development is best served this year by playing him for heaven's sake be consistent and keep him in for the next 5 weeks.

Dropping Campbell after 1 week is truly bizzare, unless he has some undisclosed injury. I haven't seen heaps of him bar glimpses on TV but I'd love to see him given a decent shot as i reckon he has way more upside than Shirley and Doughty for starters and could actually provide the Bode role up forward that we have not got right yet (Porps and Vince are different styles and Douglas provides minimal defensive action).

Players are meant to be resilient but they are only human, and sport is often a confidence game. So for mine, players that have had their confidence unfairly screwed over this year:

Massie
Mattner
Campbell

Add Pfeiffer to that list if he doesn't get a game next week. Pity, cos despite being his first game he would have added ideal depth to the mid-sized defender options against that power forward line (Ebert, Krak., Rodan...). Got the feeling an out-of-form Johncock, loose attacking McLeod, out-of-position Mattner and confidence-ruined Massie may leave us a little vulnerable.

Damn good post. I hold Craigy in high regard but I must admit I have been surprised with how poor his man management skills have been at times at this year. He seems to have his favoruites who get treated with kit gloves at the expense of promising kids.
When he first got the job, he said one of his priorities was to bring youth into the side. IMO, in the main, he is still yet to deliver on this promise.

 

[CrowHop]

I love the way Port supporters are talking this up as a really hard game to pick. If they really are a genuine premiership, they should win this and win it easy. I get the feeling they are trying to convince themselves that we are still a really good side, so if they do beat us they have somehow eradicated the problem they have with big bodied, defensive teams. I think they maybe in for a shock if they think we are some sort of measuring stick. A fully fit Geelong or Sydney will be a completely different test than an injury riddled Adelaide.

Good point Springy. Lets be realistic, in the last 3 weeks we have lost to sides who dont appear in the top 8. Well Essendon didnt until this week. How on Earth we could be classed as a 'good test' for Port is beyond me.

Macca19, you're a quality poster mate and we value the quality Port posters on our site, but surely you jest when you think it will be close !

 

[TheLeftFist8]

So let me get this straight. You dont want Rob Shirley full stop?

Correct.

He is a servicable player who used to curb some good opposition players (but rarely very good ones though he has had some notable exceptions over the years). He also is a strong body in the packs and wins his share of clearances (though with his average skill level they are not overly effective at times and he probably spends more time at the clearances than anyone else so should win a few).

All in all, an average player. Given the opportunity for 10+ games in his role i have no doubt that Campbell, Massie or Pfeiffer could plug the gap just as well as Shirley has this year, with Campbell being the option I'd most like to go with.

He wouldn't be in my top 4 for delisting at the end of the year but he'd be next cab off the rank.

 

[jarmanagic]

Oh under "normal circumstances" eh? Give me a break. We're 12th on the ladder, lost 6 of our past 8 matches, are one of the worst form teams of the competition, and yet you refuse to play the youngsters.

I really, really struggle to see how playing Pfeiffer over a guy like Shirley would be forfeiting our season. You said yourself you’ve never seen Pfeiffer play, so how the heck would you know if he’s ready to play or not? You just look at his DOB and games played and therefore make up your mind up that he’s not ready to play.

It is truly staggering how unbelievably short sighted you are. You refuse to go point by point in this argument because you have absolutely no clue. You harp on how we’re still a chance to play finals football and as a result we cannot play any youngsters because they’ll surely stuff up our chance to get there! Playing a guy like Pfeiffer over Shirley WOULD NOT be forfeiting our season. If these guys like Shirley, Doughty, Mattner were so good and they excelled in their positions, why then are we 12th on the ladder? Playing the youth wouldn’t make this team any worse that what we currently are. You can’t see this because you’ve never seen the potential replacements and you’re too busy dreaming about the warm and fuzzy feeling you would get about making up the numbers.


Let's have a Q&A session; I will answer anything you like seeing as though I've 'dodged' all these questions.

1. No

2.

FB: Johncock, Stevens, McLeod
CHB: Pfeiffer, Bock, Torney
C: Mattner, Goodwin, van Berlo
CHF: Burton, Perrie, Porplyzia
FF: Welsh, McGregor, Gill
1R: Hudson, Thompson, Edwards
INT: Maric, Campbell, Knights, Massie

I've seen Norwood a few times this year and I agree Pfeffier is heading in the right direction, but I think he has to show us good football for a fair time to earn his selection. After his slighly troubled past 4 weeks isn't enough yet. He has to really earn it, and I think he will, but not quite yet. Over the last 18 months Douglas SANFL form well ahead of Pfeffier. He is also playing half back in a sweeping role the easiest position oin he game these days. He can really mark, great speed off first 5 yards. needs to be hard at all contests not just some. A way to go yet.

Shirley good v S Burgoyne last 3 Showdowns hence his sensible recall

 

[Drummond]

I've seen Norwood a few times this year and I agree Pfeffier is heading in the right direction, but I think he has to show us good football for a fair time to earn his selection. After his slighly troubled past 4 weeks isn't enough yet. He has to really earn it, and I think he will, but not quite yet. Over the last 18 months Douglas SANFL form well ahead of Pfeffier. He is also playing half back in a sweeping role the easiest position oin he game these days. He can really mark, great speed off first 5 yards. needs to be hard at all contests not just some. A way to go yet.

Shirley good v S Burgoyne last 3 Showdowns hence his sensible recall

Are you sure you’ve seen Norwood this year? Even in the games when Pfeiffer has played? So you’re implying that Pfeiffer picks and chooses his contests? That’s a laugh and a half. Courage, courage and more courage is what you’ll get with Pfeiffer, anyone who suggests otherwise hasn’t seen him play.

 

[CrowHop]

Damn good post. I hold Craigy in high regard but I must admit I have been surprised with how poor his man management skills have been at times at this year. He seems to have his favoruites who get treated with kit gloves at the expense of promising kids.
When he first got the job, he said one of his priorities was to bring youth into the side. IMO, in the main, he is still yet to deliver on this promise.

Tend to disagree a little. This is the same bloke who has taken an ageing side to the prelim in the last 2 years.

Douglas, Van Berlo and Knights has been added to our ageing midfield, Rutten and Bock has stiffened up our spine also. Maric, Griffin, Meesen and Tippet (all recruited in the last 3 years) have ensured our ruck stocks are now healthy and looking ok.

Not all doom and gloom as some paint it, but I do agree to some extent that some of our youngsters have been held back a little too long.