Crows plan Walker talks! (Part 2)

[Wood_Duck]

But these guys all have minds of their own and I'm sure they all have opinions about what should & should not be happening - opinions which don't necessarily accord with Neil Craig's.

How do you know this?

 

[chigwidden]

They all receive a lot of media training, ensuring that they all know how to remain "on message" - that's players, coaches, football managers, CEOs, everyone. They all sing from the same song book.

Yep. I've no doubt that they run through Q&A based training, too. Role-playing for on-field interviews, etc.

Any "official" crows interview or press event will have a practice with the comms team to ensure that the player knows what to expect, and can prepare a respnse that fits with the goals of the player group/coach/board.

I'd expect it to be a collaborative effort between the leadership group, coaching group, comms team and board to come up with the unified messages.

Strong opinions that dissent from the group strategic goals are left for "leaks" or behind closed doors.

I never assume that what we hear is anything but semi-scripted.

 

[Vader]

How do you know this?

You have an opinion. I have an opinion. Everyone else on BF has an opinion as well. Why on earth would anyone think that our assistants don't have opinions of their own?

 

[King Elvis]

Look at how much shit Laidley copped when he actually told the truth.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Look at how much shit Laidley copped when he actually told the truth.

The difference there is that we knew even before that, that Laidley wasn't pulling any punches behind closed doors. We know that from the way he coached, and the way he played.

Do we know that about Hart, Bickley and Clarke? What's the common denominator with these three? I'll tell you what it is - they were ALL part of the coaches' pet brigade as players. They are all universally known as being excpetionally clean cut people. Their presence in Neil's box is no coincidence. Their personality is consistent with the club's overall approach, and with the other personalities at other levels - ie, Trigg, Schwerdt, Harper....

Like I said, if it quacks like a duck....

 

[Vader]

See, that doesn't make any more sense than your previous posts.

Your argument goes something like this...
We have previous knowledge about Laidley, therefore we assume that he continues to have a mind of his own.

We don't have any previous knowledge about Hart/Clarke/Bickley, therefore we assume that they don't have a mind of their own.

It's just rubbish. You've made up your opinions based on incorrect assumption after incorrect assumption, with all of your assumptions reinforcing your existing prejudices.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

You have an opinion. I have an opinion. Everyone else on BF has an opinion as well. Why on earth would anyone think that our assistants don't have opinions of their own?

The difference is, are they allowed to voice it?

We have all heard the stories about Todd Viney and Peter Jonas getting demoted for standing up for their opinion.

 

[jenny61_99]

The difference is, are they allowed to voice it?

We have all heard the stories about Todd Viney and Peter Jonas getting demoted for standing up for their opinion.

And herein lies the problems. "Heard the stories".

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

And herein lies the problems. "Heard the stories".

So are you saying these stories are false?

 

[chigwidden]

The difference is, are they allowed to voice it?

We have all heard the stories about Todd Viney and Peter Jonas getting demoted for standing up for their opinion.

If you tweet or make a facebook post dissing your employer, you're likely to get fired too. This doesn't mean you share your employer's opinions on how to run the business.

 

[Slippery Pete]

We don't have any previous knowledge about Hart/Clarke/Bickley, therefore we assume that they don't have a mind of their own.

What we have is knowledge of them as players and people. I didn't say they don't have a mind of their own. It's really a moot point because I believe that next to Neil, they are like minded people. Sure, tactically they may have different opinions. Are they forceful about it? Who knows. What we know it that they are all clean cut, courteous, model citizens. Exactly what Neil looks for.

Do you honestly think it's a coincidence that those three are on the coaching panel? I mean, seriously. The three cleanest cut players just about in AFC history. Do you think it's a coincidence we've never have someone like Alastair Clarkson, or Damien Hardwick?

Whoever is in charge of selecting the Football Department brainstrust, whether it be Neil or someone else, has selected this group very specifically. It's plain to see what type of person gets a gig in our football department.

If you wish to ignore that, or think of it as a coincidence, that's your choice.

 

[Vader]

I think we've recruited the players who actually had ambitions of going into AFL coaching as a career.

I will agree that I'm disappointed that we have had so few assistants from outside the AFC circle. Beyond that.. there's just not enough data from which to draw informed conclusions.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I am all for Neil Craig but I can not understand why he doesn't think it would be good for the club getting outside influences in? He seemed to when he first started ( Pyke, Noble, Hamilton etc) but has since looked inside his own nest. I would love someone to explain the merit in having ex-players as assistants? Makes absoloutely no sense....
We need to tap into Collingwood, Fremantle, Sydney... There is no salary cap with coaches, there is no excuse...

 

[TheTonic]

I am all for Neil Craig but I can not understand why he doesn't think it would be good for the club getting outside influences in? He seemed to when he first started ( Pyke, Noble, Hamilton etc) but has since looked inside his own nest. I would love someone to explain the merit in having ex-players as assistants? Makes absoloutely no sense....
We need to tap into Collingwood, Fremantle, Sydney... There is no salary cap with coaches, there is no excuse...

My theory is they work for peanuts or are volunteers or something. Outside assistant coaches probably need to be paid money we don't want to spend.

 

[Smoooothy]

losing don pyke has been one of the biggest hurts to our coaching group, he was awesome.

 

[jenny61_99]

What we have is knowledge of them as players and people. I didn't say they don't have a mind of their own. It's really a moot point because I believe that next to Neil, they are like minded people. Sure, tactically they may have different opinions. Are they forceful about it? Who knows. What we know it that they are all clean cut, courteous, model citizens. Exactly what Neil looks for.

Do you honestly think it's a coincidence that those three are on the coaching panel? I mean, seriously. The three cleanest cut players just about in AFC history. Do you think it's a coincidence we've never have someone like Alastair Clarkson, or Damien Hardwick?

Whoever is in charge of selecting the Football Department brainstrust, whether it be Neil or someone else, has selected this group very specifically. It's plain to see what type of person gets a gig in our football department.

If you wish to ignore that, or think of it as a coincidence, that's your choice.

Didn't Ben Hart have a tanty after he was asked to end his career not on his own terms? Went away for a while but then came back to the fold if I recall correctly. Would he be a yes man?

Every coach will surround themselves with people they know they can work with, and who they trust have the skill set to achieve their (the coaches) goals.

Noble is still with the Club as List Manager. Isn't Scott Camporeale still an assistant coach?

 

[swanfan]

losing don pyke has been one of the biggest hurts to our coaching group, he was awesome.

Very true.

 

[FR0GGY]

Didn't Ben Hart have a tanty after he was asked to end his career not on his own terms? Went away for a while but then came back to the fold if I recall correctly. Would he be a yes man?

Sorry but thats hardly evidence to prove that hes not a yes man.

 

[swanfan]

Sorry but thats hardly evidence to prove that hes not a yes man.

Right about now, I wish I knew Todd Viney personally.

 

[Allefgib]

good call.

 

[jenny61_99]

Sorry but thats hardly evidence to prove that hes not a yes man.

I actually asked a question - there was no statement of evidence.

 

[Allefgib]

seriously jenny? you asked rhetorical questions to pose the opposite argument and now you're arguing semantics that you never made a statement?

If you're going to oppose people's views you need to make a statement and not just say 'but but it could be anything because you don't know'.

That's not too unfair an expectation is it? (thats a question not a statement btw....)

 

[jenny61_99]

seriously jenny? you asked rhetorical questions to pose the opposite argument and now you're arguing semantics that you never made a statement?

If you're going to oppose people's views you need to make a statement and not just say 'but but it could be anything because you don't know'.

That's not too unfair an expectation is it? (thats a question not a statement btw....)

I didn't oppose anyone's views?? You seem to be reading a lot more into my posts lately - what's with that? Read what I wrote again - this time WITHOUT reading between the lines.

I just made an observation about Hart, and asked a genuine question about whether he would be your typical "yes" man, given his history. In regards to the rest of my statements - again, they were just observations. Don't coaches generally surround themselves with people who are most likely to be able to enact the coaches vision? Craig has picked externally before - others have already pointed them out. He still has Noble and Camporeale on board. He also has 3 past Crows players.

You will notice I didn't make a judgement either way - whether I thought this was a good idea or not because frankly? I have no idea.

 

[Allefgib]

apologies - when you respond to someone in the manner you did I did assume you were taking the opposite view point.

 

[AndrewJo]

I actually agree with SP for once I get the feeling our coaching panel are just yes men. Would love it it if only one assistant was from Adelaide at the most.

So all the people wanting people not from Adelaide on the coaching panel would rule out Simon Goodwin, Nathan Bassett, Shaun Rehn or Roo returning to the panel? How absurd. So Buckley will not succeed at Collingwood as an ex-player? Bickley and Hart have been at one club but I am sure in their long career they have learned from a variety of coaches. Matty Clarke has been at Brisbane, St Kilda and Crows and must surely have gleaned information from a variety of coaches. Similarly Camporeale.
Give me a panel that appears united and sings from the same song book in public. To suggest that these strong men do not have their own opinions and air them in coaches' discussions is demeaning and in my opinion ridiculous!