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Crows plan Walker talks! (Part 2)

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Carl Spackler said:
It's getting obvious that Craig resents the fact that Walker might leave, or has already decided to go.

The GWS opportunity is out in the open. Walker's management have said no negotiations until the end of the year. This offends Neil to the core - how could Walker possibly not want to be part of this dynasty we're building?

We saw when Bock left just how much it hurt Neil. Once bitten, twice shy.

He's not going to pick him until he signs.
Click to expand...

Hes probably waiting to see how good Triggs eyesight is and if Craig will be there in 2012. Cant say i blame him.
 

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Cap said:
do we realise that this board is now actually making rumours up?

we are the ones feeding the bullshit machine
Click to expand...
Walker dropped and Walker being our leading goal kicker aren't rumours though.

He's been dropped for poor defensive efforts, but you could go through our whole team and find reasons to drop everyone except Scott Thompson, Rutten and maybe Johncock.

Something's up.
 
Slippery Pete said:
If there's ever a sign of the demise of your faith in Craig, this is it. You've shown before your heart rules your head, but this is the king of them all.

"He belongs in our side. He SHOULD be there" yet you can still find an excuse for Neil as to why he isn't.

You know deep down Jen. You know. Just relent. It'll be a weight off your shoulders. This blind NC faith is sapping your strength.
Click to expand...

I was expressing concern over Walker by about R4.

Pete, can you honestly say you're happy with his performance this year? You could happily say that he's working hard and putting in every game?

Or is it a matter of you recognising this, but wanting him kept in the side while they try and work on it with him?
 
King Elvis said:
I was expressing concern over Walker by about R4.

Pete, can you honestly say you're happy with his performance this year? You could happily say that he's working hard and putting in every game?

Or is it a matter of you recognising this, but wanting him kept in the side while they try and work on it with him?
Click to expand...
How are the rest of our players going?
 
Carl Spackler said:
Walker dropped and Walker being our leading goal kicker aren't rumours though.

He's been dropped for poor defensive efforts, but you could go through our whole team and find reasons to drop everyone except Scott Thompson, Rutten and maybe Johncock.

Something's up.
Click to expand...

Walker has been pretty slack all year isn't a rumour all year either mate; everybody (almost) was pathetic against Melbourne, but nobody else has been as consistently non-competitive.

That 2:25 part in the video that was highlighted is spot on; didn't attack the marking contest hard enough, didn't contest the ball hard enough on the ground. Let everybody else do all of the hard work, get's a cheap goal out the back and then celebrates like he's done something special.

He showed us last year that he can play 'properly,' - he isn't doing it this year.

EDIT - Carl, post directly above, name me the players who have been as non-competitive as Walker has been this year.

Maric?

Hendo has been crap, but he's been working his arse off (still think he should be dropped as well though).
 
King Elvis said:
Walker has been pretty slack all year isn't a rumour all year either mate; everybody (almost) was pathetic against Melbourne, but nobody else has been as consistently non-competitive.

That 2:25 part in the video that was highlighted is spot on; didn't attack the marking contest hard enough, didn't contest the ball hard enough on the ground. Let everybody else do all of the hard work, get's a cheap goal out the back and then celebrates like he's done something special.
Click to expand...
Sorry, is that Darren Jarman 1997 GF footage you're talking about?

Golly... a goal sneak behaving like a goal sneak. What a crime. Smart players know when to go and when to whoa. Sure he isn't perfect and times when he gets it wrong now, but he is a 38 game player.

Craig wants them to crash the pack every time and bring the ball to ground... doesn't care about goals or winning. Proof is Tippett's first third of last season. He was awful. Struggling with knee tendonitis, couldn't kick at all, wasn't taking marks, was having absolutely no impact. Clearly one of our worst players. Yet the 'brainstrust' rated him in the top handful of our B&F after those rounds :o

He showed us last year that he can play 'properly,' - he isn't doing it this year.
Click to expand...
Wrong. He got dropped twice last year from a garbage team who were having injury trouble, so he must have been rubbish then too.

EDIT - Carl, post directly above, name me the players who have been as non-competitive as Walker has been this year.

Maric?

Hendo has been crap, but he's been working his arse off (still think he should be dropped as well though).
Click to expand...
Well, every player who has been involved in our clearances to start with.

We are last in the competition for clearances and last for contested ball.

And you take Thommo's numbers out and it is truly pathetic. Sub AFL standard, soft, non competitive, embarrassing, match losing efforts from our midfielders. And using the ball poorly. And not tackling, getting brushed aside like school children. Our midfielders should be hanging their heads in shame. This is where our problems start and are causing us the most issues.

Then our defence. Apart from Rutten and Johncock - disgraceful. Getting beaten easily by average teams. Unable to move the ball out with any precision at all to the point that both Carlton and Melbourne broke records for F50 tackles. No rebound at all.

For whatever reason the club has chosen to make an example of one of our few positives - the fact that a 20/21 year old was leading our goal kicking and up there on the Coleman ladder, even with the worst midfield in the competition.

He's a work in progress, the same as any young key position player. The SANFL isn't a finishing school.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Sorry, is that Darren Jarman 1997 GF footage you're talking about?

Golly... a goal sneak behaving like a goal sneak. What a crime. Smart players know when to go and when to whoa. Sure he isn't perfect and times when he gets it wrong now, but he is a 38 game player.

Craig wants them to crash the pack every time and bring the ball to ground... doesn't care about goals or winning. Proof is Tippett's first third of last season. He was awful. Struggling with knee tendonitis, couldn't kick at all, wasn't taking marks, was having absolutely no impact. Clearly one of our worst players. Yet the 'brainstrust' rated him in the top handful of our B&F after those rounds :o


Wrong. He got dropped twice last year from a garbage team who were having injury trouble, so he must have been rubbish then too.


Well, every player who has been involved in our clearances to start with.

We are last in the competition for clearances and last for contested ball.

And you take Thommo's numbers out and it is truly pathetic. Sub AFL standard, soft, non competitive, embarrassing, match losing efforts from our midfielders. And using the ball poorly. And not tackling, getting brushed aside like school children. Our midfielders should be hanging their heads in shame. This is where our problems start and are causing us the most issues.

Then our defence. Apart from Rutten and Johncock - disgraceful. Getting beaten easily by average teams. Unable to move the ball out with any precision at all to the point that both Carlton and Melbourne broke records for F50 tackles. No rebound at all.

For whatever reason the club has chosen to make an example of one of our few positives - the fact that a 20/21 year old was leading our goal kicking and up there on the Coleman ladder, even with the worst midfield in the competition.

He's a work in progress, the same as any young key position player. The SANFL isn't a finishing school.
Click to expand...

Great post. The bolded part especially. I said something similar couple of weeks ago here and have been saying this to people i know, and they think the same.

The midfield have been so lazy. Tackling, clearance work, ability to create, not running with their opponents and our defence gets swamped, allowing their opponents to break from centre clearances and spectating, not getting to half forward the rare times we have won a clearance to help our forward players leading out. While the opposition mids all get there and trap our forwards.

And this is what gets me annoyed about the Walker situation. Maybe Taylor should start seeing Craigy's daughter ;)
 

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Carl that is spot on. We need to make moves to **** off Craig before we lose all hope of keeping Walker.
 
Not sure if these stats have been mentioned already,

sorry if they have,

but - stats from footywire for the year

Walker .33 tackles per game over 6 games is 2 tackles for the year.

looking at the 30 highest goal scorers for the AFL, his is the second lowest ave tackles per game.

The only 1 below him is Barry hall who hasnt laid a tackle in 4 games this year.

Most of those 30 have at least an average of 1.75 tackles per game.

Bernie vince has an average of 1.25 tackles over 4 games for a midfielder!

Both very damning stats, and very eye opening for me, as I too was pretty p****d that he was still out.
If Taylor can see that his defence is this bad compared to other goalkickers, hopefully he won't take it to heart.

I know there are plenty of players who have glaring deficencies at the moment, but pressure is a major factor in our poor performances, and something that Craigy places an enormous value on.

Hence why they have been dropped.

Also, the Crows are last in the competition for tackles laid by a fair margin - Vince and Tex coming in at 27th and 28th in the Crows rankings for tackles per game.
 
splat868 said:
Not sure if these stats have been mentioned already,

sorry if they have,

but - stats from footywire for the year

Walker .33 tackles per game over 6 games is 2 tackles for the year.

looking at the 30 highest goal scorers for the AFL, his is the second lowest ave tackles per game.

The only 1 below him is Barry hall who hasnt laid a tackle in 4 games this year.

Most of those 30 have at least an average of 1.75 tackles per game.

Bernie vince has an average of 1.25 tackles over 4 games for a midfielder!

Both very damning stats, and very eye opening for me.

I know there are plenty of players who have glaring defficencies at the moment, but pressure is a major factor in our poor performances, and something that Craigy places an enormous value on.

Hence why they have been dropped.

Also, the Crows are last in the competition for tackles laid by a fair margin
Click to expand...
Sigh, read the threads of how this ideology has been killed over and over.
It's very simple it has nothing to do with tackling or stats it has everything to do with appearances and apparent off ball play effort.

Symptomatic addressing of issues is the pseudo-scientific approach which Craig takes, it's how our medical system fails to address systematic problems by band-aiding symptoms, drugging up mental patients then letting them go home to murder people.
In a team sport your performance especially as a forward is dependent on the teams performance.
Comparatively Adelaide's defensive pressure is weaker then every other teams, it's defensive stats exhibit this.
If you take a comparative of a bunch of similar players from any other team to similar players in the Adelaide team their(opponents) defensive numbers will all be better.
This passes on to the least defensive pressuring players in your KPPs and rucks as they are larger and slower and thus can't chase down your quick smalls less they are right next to them or corralled.
Other teams have anomalies, as in other teams players like Roughead have working defensive pressure on their side and they also get to play against Adelaide who gives them forward 50 tackle records for their garbage over-possession in the back half.
What it comes down to is Walker doesn't look like he's trying hard versus these other players who are still doing pathetic but look like they are trying harder.
Vince being dropped has changed nothing in the mid-field and back lines where the problems are, Walker being dropped is much the same.
But people who like to kick the scapegoat will jump all over it.
Vince was not playing very well and was dropped and to get back in he has been quoted as saying it doesn't matter what stats he gets but how hard he appears to be running.
Walker being a forward completely relies on the delivery, his last two games he went poorly in which Adelaides I50s were amazingly slight although he was responsible for some I50s himself and goal assists of which were few, to get any goals at all out of this shambles game Adelaide is presenting is pretty good really.
The forwards are very efficient for the terrible delivery and lack of it they get.

The sensible complaint here is that he should be in the team to work on the things the team needs, not some other league where the game is different the requirements are different.
It's nonsense.
If he's not part of your bigger picture that's the only reason you'd drop your leading goal kicker with how the rest are playing.
 
Kickin_Goals said:
Sigh, read the threads of how this ideology has been killed over and over.
It's very simple it has nothing to do with tackling or stats it has everything to do with appearances and apparent off ball play effort.

Symptomatic addressing of issues is the pseudo-scientific approach which Craig takes, it's how our medical system fails to address systematic problems by band-aiding symptoms, drugging up mental patients then letting them go home to murder people.
In a team sport your performance especially as a forward is dependent on the teams performance.
Comparatively Adelaide's defensive pressure is weaker then every other teams, it's defensive stats exhibit this.
If you take a comparative of a bunch of similar players from any other team to similar players in the Adelaide team their(opponents) defensive numbers will all be better.
This passes on to the least defensive pressuring players in your KPPs and rucks as they are larger and slower and thus can't chase down your quick smalls less they are right next to them or corralled.
Other teams have anomalies, as in other teams players like Roughead have working defensive pressure on their side and they also get to play against Adelaide who gives them forward 50 tackle records for their garbage over-possession in the back half.
What it comes down to is Walker doesn't look like he's trying hard versus these other players who are still doing pathetic but look like they are trying harder.
Vince being dropped has changed nothing in the mid-field and back lines where the problems are, Walker being dropped is much the same.
But people who like to kick the scapegoat will jump all over it.
Vince was not playing very well and was dropped and to get back in he has been quoted as saying it doesn't matter what stats he gets but how hard he appears to be running.
Walker being a forward completely relies on the delivery, his last two games he went poorly in which Adelaides I50s were amazingly slight although he was responsible for some I50s himself and goal assists of which were few, to get any goals at all out of this shambles game Adelaide is presenting is pretty good really.
The forwards are very efficient for the terrible delivery and lack of it they get.

The sensible complaint here is that he should be in the team to work on the things the team needs, not some other league where the game is different the requirements are different.
It's nonsense.
If he's not part of your bigger picture that's the only reason you'd drop your leading goal kicker with how the rest are playing.
Click to expand...


Sorry,


Maybe its just late, but I dont follow your rebuff as to what I said.

I neither like that Walker is out of the team, nor do I agree with it.
however, if you care to check the stats, Walker has one of the lowest tackle rates in the competition.

I agree, that in a poorly performing side that the forwards stats will drop, however when you compare other teams that are struggling this year, Walkers defensive game still doesnt measure up.

Also, You would need to look at the inside 50s, to compare how well he is doing, rather than delivery, because if the oppostion has the ball in our 50, then he has the chance to tackle.

I reiterate, I want Walker in the team, but fail to see that he doesnt still have a lot to work on.

Gold coast = 1 out of 33 players lower tackles than Walker
Brisbane = 1 of 28 players same as Walker .33 per game
St kilda= 0 out of 27 lessz than walker
Power = 0 of 30 players
Melbourne = 0 of 25 players
Kangaroos = 0 of 27 players
Tigers =0 of 27 players

Fact is, its not his style of play to tackle, and most coaches don't like that style of play anymore unfortunately whether we agree with it or not.
 
splat868 said:
Sorry,


Maybe its just late, but I dont follow your rebuff as to what I said.

I neither like that Walker is out of the team, nor do I agree with it.
however, if you care to check the stats, Walker has one of the lowest tackle rates in the competition.

I agree, that in a poorly performing side that the forwards stats will drop, however when you compare other teams that are struggling this year, Walkers defensive game still doesnt measure up.

Also, You would need to look at the inside 50s, to compare how well he is doing, rather than delivery, because if the oppostion has the ball in our 50, then he has the chance to tackle.

I reiterate, I want Walker in the team, but fail to see that he doesnt still have a lot to work on.

Gold coast = 1 out of 33 players lower tackles than Walker
Brisbane = 1 of 28 players same as Walker .33 per game
St kilda= 0 out of 27 lessz than walker
Power = 0 of 30 players
Melbourne = 0 of 25 players
Kangaroos = 0 of 27 players
Tigers =0 of 27 players

Fact is, its not his style of play to tackle, and most coaches don't like that style of play anymore unfortunately whether we agree with it or not.
Click to expand...

This maybe true, but are we trying to get the wrong types of player to be tackling machines in our forward 50?

Look at Carlton, they have the most tackles inside 50 for this year and they have the likes of Garlett, Betts, Yarran and Simpson etc doing that work. They are much quicker than the big fellas and can get to a contest and provide the pressure faster

I'm not saying Walker can be lazy, he still needs to do his part, but is it our lack of a mosquito brigade thats stopping us from having better forward 50 pressure?
 
Glenno23 said:
This maybe true, but are we trying to get the wrong types of player to be tackling machines in our forward 50?
Click to expand...

He doesn't need to be mate, but he needs to apply pressure and show some intensity.

Your point about Carlton is right though - I think when we have SMcK/Tip/Tex around the forward line, we're too tall... And it's made worse when one of them doesn't compete hard enough.
 

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King Elvis said:
He doesn't need to be mate, but he needs to apply pressure and show some intensity.

Your point about Carlton is right though - I think when we have SMcK/Tip/Tex around the forward line, we're too tall... And it's made worse when one of them doesn't compete hard enough.
Click to expand...

Check the 3rd paragraph :thumbsu:
 
To a degree as you said, its the mosquito brigade.

I doubt that Craig expects Waker to be a tackling machine, but his tackling is lower than the overwhelming majority of players in the game, tall or small.

I expect, he is being asked to raise the bar so that he is comparable to other tall forwards in forward line pressure.

I think that there is a chance that this will push Walker away, and just hope that Walker realises that there is a real lack of forward pressure from him compared to almost all of the players of his type across the competition.

I don't think Walker is lazy, he has probably played his junior footy being led to believe that its all about kicking goals, so its hard for him to get the extra defensive pressure into his game.

If he can do as well in his defensive game as he does in his offensive, he will be an incredible player., and one of the very best forwards.
 
Those players require the others leading the way to have any pressure to add to and make stops, they simply cannot chase down several players that stream out of the back line on the behest of deliveries that travel further skyward then they penetrate.
What is being presented here is that it's the other way around.
As well that Walker is also dragging his player to other contests, now when the delivery is such he'd have to be holding the man or not entering the contest to not have his player involve himself at the ball drop. Again things that people will complain about.
With the over-possession in transition from the kick-out as a clearance is unheard of the flood is always on and the crows are always behind the ball as this the natural flow of play for players without the ball to fall back and then outnumber those not quick in getting over the flood.

People don't seem to understand it's just not that simple. But putting a face to something and cutting it off is and has worked for 'the masses' or 'dumbasses' so many times before why not.
So what if he even does these things in the SANFL the team is completely different the scenarios do not mesh. You can go around present all these comparisons but you'll find those teams don't have the same issues that are systematically broken throughout at Adelaide.

Who would get the idea that football is about kicking goals? that's crazy not here it's about defending and maintaining possession since you only get it when the opponents mess up from unforced error.
 
Nice to Walker at the Port Power game downing a few beers with mates. Clearly he just doesn't give a crap anymore. Seeing that, he's definitely gone next year.
 
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