Crows plan Walker talks!

[PrideOf]

I'm sure somebody has said this already, but it really ****ing shits me that these player managers come out and say things like "they don't want any distractions so they're putting off contract talks until the end of the season". WTF? As soon as this comment is made it becomes a ****ing media circus for months on end, and would have to be the most disrupting thing that a player could deal with.

Of course it does. Why do you think they say it? They hold all the cards with this one at the moment, so they can say whatever they like.

 

[KingJames23]

I'm sure somebody has said this already, but it really ****ing shits me that these player managers come out and say things like "they don't want any distractions so they're putting off contract talks until the end of the season". WTF? As soon as this comment is made it becomes a ****ing media circus for months on end, and would have to be the most disrupting thing that a player could deal with.

Come on Ruscy are you serious?

Yes Walker probably gets asked a bit but he is not signing a lesser contract to avoid the inevitable media scrum who will question him at every opportunity. Tippet did it so well - he gave nothing away, said he would deal with it at the time ansd gave the same answer. How is it a disruption? The fans and media might ask him a bit but if you put up with it, then you'll be fine. The players arent questioning him, the coaches arent questioning him, and players hire agents to handle this stuff so they can concentrate on footy. I dont buy into the whole distraction stuff. The Crows management would be wanting an answer, but through his agent, not Walker.

To me, it a completely smart business decision for Walker to delay talks. You get ********s that write comments into the advertiser (check the article from this morning on AdelaideNow) who say things like "If I was Craig, I wouldnt play Walker all year until he signs", or my favourite "why wouldnt he leave after the way he's been treated." Are you kidding? Being made to earn a spot? Thats harsh? Ask Davis whether its harsh being dropped. Ask Porps. The guy is being made to earn a position and if he wants to be a bitch and walk out because he was told to improve his defensive pressure, then go. Dont let the door hit your ass on the way out. If you are that fickle and egotistic, then see you later. Anyway, i digress...

The fact is, everybody is motivated by different things. Alligence to a certain club, money, family, internal relationships with players and coaches are just a few factors to take into consideration, and nobody knows what motivates Walker except the man himself.

In the end, what ever happens, the crows will be fine. It will hurt to lose him. But the crows will survive and life will go on. But it frustrates me when people pretend to know what he wants to do and speculate on what his motivations are, where he wants to play, and questions when he should be making a decision. Get over it. He has a chance to have a massive year and increase his value in a career where you spend around 10 years earning big cash. If he signed with the crows tomorrow, I would say he is incredibly loyal and assume things like money, being the no. 1 FF/location is no motivation to him. If he waits, its a smart decision to see what offers are in place. Either way, I will hold NO grudges to walker, just like I hold no grudges towards Bock. Fans who think they own the players and that the platers are as loyal to the team and they are - those people are kidding themselves. Sure, some might be that way - Sloane and Danger, for example have pledged their loyalty publically. But for these guys, its still a job. Im sure they dont jump out of bed on training day all excited to start running. So I say it again - if Walker stays, great. If he goes, I hold no grudges, and Ill continue to support the guys who are a part of the crows.

 

[ruscy002]

Of course it does. Why do you think they say it? They hold all the cards with this one at the moment, so they can say whatever they like.

But to the detriment of the player? Clearly there was a breakdown of relationships at Geelong last year. The Bock situation got messy. While their managers are looking after their financial interests right now, I'm pretty confident that Scully and Walker feel at least a bit shitty for the situation that they're in and have put their clubs in.

 

[KUNG FU]

No no no no no no no...

Fifty goals in his debut SANFL season...full forward.

Five goals in a half against Hawthorn, his best bag for the Crows...full forward.

He could turn out to be a brilliant CHF because he has all the attributes to do so, but he is a natural full forward, and we'd see his best footy there if given a consistent opportunity.

Umm, maybe I'm splitting hairs, but Tippett started in the goal square, Walker played higher and 4 of his goals were kicked from 45m+ out. That's a classic 90s CHF imo.

 

[KUNG FU]

[YOUTUBE]qx5IhEos7LQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ruscy002]

To me, it a completely smart business decision for Walker to delay talks. You get ********s that write comments into the advertiser (check the article from this morning on AdelaideNow) who say things like "If I was Craig, I wouldnt play Walker all year until he signs", or my favourite "why wouldnt he leave after the way he's been treated." Are you kidding? Being made to earn a spot? Thats harsh? Ask Davis whether its harsh being dropped. Ask Porps. The guy is being made to earn a position and if he wants to be a bitch and walk out because he was told to improve his defensive pressure, then go. Dont let the door hit your ass on the way out. If you are that fickle and egotistic, then see you later. Anyway, i digress...

The fact is, everybody is motivated by different things. Alligence to a certain club, money, family, internal relationships with players and coaches are just a few factors to take into consideration, and nobody knows what motivates Walker except the man himself.

In the end, what ever happens, the crows will be fine. It will hurt to lose him. But the crows will survive and life will go on. But it frustrates me when people pretend to know what he wants to do and speculate on what his motivations are, where he wants to play, and questions when he should be making a decision. Get over it. He has a chance to have a massive year and increase his value in a career where you spend around 10 years earning big cash. If he signed with the crows tomorrow, I would say he is incredibly loyal and assume things like money, being the no. 1 FF/location is no motivation to him. If he waits, its a smart decision to see what offers are in place. Either way, I will hold NO grudges to walker, just like I hold no grudges towards Bock. Fans who think they own the players and that the platers are as loyal to the team and they are - those people are kidding themselves. Sure, some might be that way - Sloane and Danger, for example have pledged their loyalty publically. But for these guys, its still a job. Im sure they dont jump out of bed on training day all excited to start running. So I say it again - if Walker stays, great. If he goes, I hold no grudges, and Ill continue to support the guys who are a part of the crows.[/quote]

Tippett signed an extenstion a year in advance, so he put it all to bed before it even really started. Walker's management could've done the same at the end of last season but didn't. Completely different cases in terms of the impact on the player.
*
Ultimately Walker/Scully etc. and their respective managers can do whatever the hell they want, but saying that they're putting off contract talks to "avoid distraction" is utter bullshit in these expansion years.

 

[KUNG FU]

By the way, Jamie Vlatko & Cockshell in the pocket, Walker high on the lead, perfect combo in 2008.

 

[PrideOf]

But to the detriment of the player? Clearly there was a breakdown of relationships at Geelong last year. The Bock situation got messy. While their managers are looking after their financial interests right now, I'm pretty confident that Scully and Walker feel at least a bit shitty for the situation that they're in and have put their clubs in.

The player is actually driving this situation. Their manager is talking on BEHALF of the player and is under instruction. If the player is too naive or stupid to put their hand up and say to their manager, 'the situation in the clubroom is killing me, let's just put this thing to bed' then they deserve to be uncomfortable.

I don't think for a moment that Bock was a victim - he told his manager to hang out for more cash, which he did. The 'detriment' to him was short term and he accepted that on the basis of the coin he'd pick up in 2011.

 

[ruscy002]

Umm, maybe I'm splitting hairs, but Tippett started in the goal square, Walker played higher and 4 of his goals were kicked from 45m+ out. That's a classic 90s CHF imo.

I wonder how many of Tony Lockett or Jason Dunstall's goals were from 45m+ out...Tex led up from 20-30m out to take those marks. He wasn't working up around the centre square then powering back to take those marks ala Carey/Pagan's paddock.

 

[ruscy002]

The player is actually driving this situation. Their manager is talking on BEHALF of the player and is under instruction. If the player is too naive or stupid to put their hand up and say to their manager, 'the situation in the clubroom is killing me, let's just put this thing to bed' then they deserve to be uncomfortable.

I don't think for a moment that Bock was a victim - he told his manager to hang out for more cash, which he did. The 'detriment' to him was short term and he accepted that on the basis of the coin he'd pick up in 2011.

Bullshit. The manager is more experienced at negotiation than the player, which is why the player puts it in their hands. Do you think for one second that if Walker said "ok, lets just sign now" that the manager would just go "ok Taylor, you're the boss". No they wouldn't. They want more money and they would move heaven and earth to try to talk them out of it and caving in is a last resort.

 

[KUNG FU]

I wonder how many of Tony Lockett or Jason Dunstall's goals were from 45m+ out...Tex led up from 20-30m out to take those marks. He wasn't working up around the centre square then powering back to take those marks ala Carey/Pagan's paddock.

So what position was Tippett playing in that game? And who was at CHF?

Carey is a poor comparison because he was ahead of his time. A classic 90s CHF would rarely go into the centre square. Walker plays much higher than Dunstall or Lockett ever did.

 

[PrideOf]

Bullshit. The manager is more experienced at negotiation than the player, which is why the player puts it in their hands. Do you think for one second that if Walker said "ok, lets just sign now" that the manager would just go "ok Taylor, you're the boss". No they wouldn't. They want more money and they would move heaven and earth to try to talk them out of it and caving in is a last resort.

Champ, you're making it out like the player is at the mercy of their manager. If that's the case, the player deserves everything that's coming to him. The manager is actually employed by the player, who needs to approve anything the manager signs up for.

No, I don't think if Taylor said 'let's sign' the manager would go to the AFC and say 'please sign him, we'll take anything'. But he would restart talks now and get the job done. He wouldn't delay it until the end of the year.

Don't know why you're thinking if the player wants the deal done then the manager will just roll over.

 

[KingJames23]

Bullshit. The manager is more experienced at negotiation than the player, which is why the player puts it in their hands. Do you think for one second that if Walker said "ok, lets just sign now" that the manager would just go "ok Taylor, you're the boss". No they wouldn't. They want more money and they would move heaven and earth to try to talk them out of it and caving in is a last resort.

The manager will advise him and take care of negotiations, but ultimately, Walker will do what he wants. A 20 year old guy isnt going to be in charge of negotiating a potential multi-million dollar contract. But at the same time, if Walker pledges his loyalty and wants to sign, he will. While Im purely speculating, Walker holding off the extention is under instruction from his agent, who "recommended/advised" his client that he can get more money. And who doesnt like money?!?

 

[ruscy002]

So what position was Tippett playing in that game? And who was at CHF?

Carey is a poor comparison because he was ahead of his time. A classic 90s CHF would rarely go into the centre square. Walker plays much higher than Dunstall or Lockett ever did.

Sorry mate but when I think 90s CHF, I think Carey. He was THE centre half forward for the better part of the decade.

Walker and Tippett were working between FF positions. Knights was the closest thing to resembling a CHF.

 

[ruscy002]

Champ, you're making it out like the player is at the mercy of their manager. If that's the case, the player deserves everything that's coming to him. The manager is actually employed by the player, who needs to approve anything the manager signs up for.

No, I don't think if Taylor said 'let's sign' the manager would go to the AFC and say 'please sign him, we'll take anything'. But he would restart talks now and get the job done. He wouldn't delay it until the end of the year.

Don't know why you're thinking if the player wants the deal done then the manager will just roll over.

But by saying talks are off until the season's end, then going back on that, they already have rolled over and are in the weaker position.

 

[KUNG FU]

Sorry mate but when I think 90s CHF, I think Carey. He was THE centre half forward for the better part of the decade

Yes, but he was atypical of that role. Stewart Loewe or Sticks Kernahan would both play in the 50 and lead up to the 50m arc. That's Walker's role. FF plays out of the pocket and kicks goals from 20-40m out.

Walker and Tippett were working between FF positions. Knights was the closest thing to resembling a CHF.

Your argument just jumped off the deep end.

 

[ruscy002]

Yes, but he was atypical of that role. Stewart Loewe or Sticks Kernahan would both play in the 50 and lead up to the 50m arc. That's Walker's role. FF plays out of the pocket and kicks goals from 20-40m out.



Your argument just jumped off the deep end.

Not a classic power CHF, but I doubt there's any other player that we hit up more across the HF line in that setup at that time.

 

[Filthy Fielke]

If it was the 90s Walker would be CHF and Tippo would be FF.

But it's not the 90s!

They'll do what they did last year: play swapsies.

If I was Walker I would be damn tempted to go to GWS as well.

If he does go, I think it will be more to do with the GWS pull rather than the Craig/AFC push.

Won't stop all of the coolly rational posters using febrile consipracy theories as empirical evidence to crucify Craig.

 

[aneale]

I feel the same and it is going to suck this year watching him play when his future with us is in doubt. Unfortunately you reap what you sow and there have been some valid questions about how Craig has coached him thus far and if they are true it may in the end push him to look to another club.

At 20 years of age it wont just be the money that he leaves for, his decision IMO will also be reflective of how he feels he has been treated by the club thus far.

Interesting times ahead, but I will be totally gutted if we lose Tex.

I agree, if he goes there will be a lot more to the issue than just money. He won't be getting Ablettesque (or even the rumoured salary waved at Scully, or any of the other profile GWS targets) money, but still very good.

If we lose a kid who is living the dream of playing for the team he barracked for as a kid and who has had some involvement in his life since about the age of 15 then there is other factors than just the money. Its not like the Crows will offer him just $200K a year, so he knows he will be getting a pretty decent salary regardless for a 20yo.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

If he does go, I think it will be more to do with the GWS pull rather than the Craig/AFC push.

Won't stop all of the coolly rational posters using febrile consipracy theories as empirical evidence to crucify Craig.

Bullshit, where there is smoke, there is fire and how many rumors and much innuendo were flying around last year alleging how unhappy he was after getting dropped?

Yes he played 18 games but none of know what was said behind closed doors or what sort of relationship he has with the coach. He may or may not be happy but general gossip gets out into the football community and the word on the street was; he wasn’t happy with a few things Neil Craig was specifically asking him to do and not asking others to do.

It’s has been alleged that we are building a fantastic culture under Neil Craig where young players want to stay around the club so they can develop, learn and prosper as AFL footballers. So why would he leave if this is true? That should be a tick in the club favor.

He supported the Adelaide Crows as a kid, so he would have dreamt about playing for the club as a kid and living in Adelaide would have been part of the deal. So he’s not leaving the city of Adelaide as he didn’t know or understand how the town worked. That should be another tick.

Money – whatever club he plays for beyond 2011, his remuneration will be very reasonable. He will be paid very handsomely for his services. Therefore, money doesn’t play a factor as GWS wouldn’t be paying him some unrealistic figure that the AFC could not match as that would be irresponsible for a startup club looking for 8 or 9 other gun players. He won’t be getting Gary Ablett sort of money yet. The AFC could match the GWS offer or at least make it look like a fair deal. If everything else was fine, most people would take a bit less to stay where they are happy, learning there craft and it’s enjoyable. Unless the rumors are true.

Young player – we have a plethora of young guys coming through and the impression is, he gets along very well with all of them. Why would he leave a young exciting group for an unknown club with unknown facilities in a city mysterious to him? I don’t know, therefore, I doubt it’s the playing group pushing him away.

Playing group…no, money…no, Adelaide the city….no, his relationship with Neil Craig????? Where there is smoke, there is generally fire.

 

[Jars458]

Bullshit, where there is smoke, there is fire .

What utter rubbish. Where there is smoke, there is often a smoke machine.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

What utter rubbish. Where there is smoke, there is often a smoke machine.

Yes, of course. Their couldn't be any element of truth to the fact that Sir Neil isn't god gift to football.

And that must mean the anyone who leaves would be a greedy Judas.

 

[ftmch]

Where there is smoke, there is generally fire.

WTF is this 'smoke' that everyone is referring to? Rumours that he was disconcerted about being dropped by the coach to work on key aspects of his game?

Let's assume these rumours were true (and let's be honest, we've no idea if they are), that's hardly something that is going to trigger a players departure from his club of choice, particularly when all of the the puzzle for him are clearly in place, as you've quite astutely pointed out (ie peers, money, city etc..).

For this to be a factor in a decision of this magnitude for him, there would need to be a total breakdown in player / coach relations, and frankly I just can see that being the case (if there was something that significant, Im sure we would have seen the flames by now).

 

[pext]

So what we know is that:
afc have made a good offer to Tex.
Gws has approached him with an offer of more money.
Tex loves the boys and he loves the club.
Tex has suspended negotiations on his contract.

Sounds to me like a classic case of a player suspending contract talks to see if he can squeeze out a little extra dough. Nothing to see here!

 

[KingJames23]

The "smoke" is the media and they are blowing too much of it. Media and fans make it much bigger than it is. He wants to delay talks, crows dont, ultimately Walker and his agent make the decision as to when its sorted. The amount of speculation is just ridiculous and stressing about it will take years off your life! Just enjoy Walker's year, be excited that we have him this year and lets cheer him and the team on. Media will continue to write stories because people keep wanting answers but Walker (or anyone associated with the contract talks) isnt going to blow the story to a media person asking a question, or a fan on the street. Media creates the smoke. Fans panic more than they should. Media thrives on 'fear' campaigns. Thats how they sell papers and websites - instilling fear into people so that they read what they have to say.