Strategy Crows Premiership Plan

[headache1]

I would be interested in the SA players that have or are excelling interstate over the time period that we could have traded for.

Im not suggesting we draft SA players first up, but rather we need to explore which SA players later in the draft have performed better than their draft positions suggest.

As an example in the 06 draft we picked David 400kay over Lindsay Thomas. Of course there its very very easy in hindsight to sit back and pass judgement, but I would be interested as to why we didnt go for the home talent.

At a guess, I'd say it's because we weren't interested in a small forward with the pick that was used on Mackay. The position in the draft in which those two players were picked is when you're drafting on a needs basis.

 

[1970crow]

Great, then when the interstate gun that we pass over is cutting it up, and the SA player is playing like the pick he would have otherwise been selected at, we can rip into the club for shitty recruiting.

I didn't read it as being that hard and fast. We already select Vic country and SA kids ahead of Vic metro if they're close. Maybe it's just a matter of extending it out a bit to mitigate go home losses. i doubt anyone is suggesting taking players a full round ahead just because they're a Sth Aussie. There's got to be a max variance defined.

 

[Niximus]

I didn't read it as being that hard and fast. We already select Vic country and SA kids ahead of Vic metro if they're close. Maybe it's just a matter of extending it out a bit to mitigate go home losses. i doubt anyone is suggesting taking players a full round ahead just because they're a Sth Aussie. There's got to be a max variance defined.

The thing is, that that strategy would have been completely useless in mitigating any of the 'go home' losses we've actually had, and even a potential loss of Dangerfield.

 

[adelaidecrows]

1) If Dangerfield leaves change our recruiting policy from " best available " to "best Sa kid available".

2) Hold average off field staff accountable for their continued mistakes. See Nible, Harper, Smart

3) Set a plan where we build towards a premiership and sustained success rather than planning just to make finals. Our goal should be a premiership run in 2018. If we have to spend the next few years around the bottom 8 while we play kids instead of average senior players then so be it.

4) Stop giving generous, ridiculous contracts to non SA players.

That's ridiculous. What if there is an out and out gun midfielder slipped through to our pick in the draft but he is Victorian and the best available SA kid at our pick is a small forward that if it wasn't for our policy most likely would slip through to low 2nd round. The best way to play your idea is to change it to if its a 50/50 decision go with the SA kid. Otherwise its best person for the job.

 

[1970crow]

Currency? As in any pick under 35?

Probably none of them.

My view is that we should try using players to upgrade existing picks. We bat far too deep for generic midfielders. More talent in the best 18, better talent out of the drafts and thinned out (less sal sac) depth. Use young talent as depth instead of isolating a dozen spots in the middle of the list for experienced plodders.

 

[Mattrox]

Don't be silly.

What we inherit has the greatest bearing on now. What we do now has the greatest bearing on the future.

What we did 2, 5, 8, 10 years ago affects what follows.

If what we did 2, 5, 8, 10 years ago leads to good results then it would make perfect sense to continue with the same methods.

Our selection policy 10 years ago was probably right for the time, and not the reason we didn't get premierships in 05 and 06....... and it wasn't the reason we couldn't win one from 08 to 14.... Drafting spuds in the 2000's is.


We are quibbling over the selection and non-selection over 4 or so players, 2 in 2 out. This is the micro.

Getting our list set up in the '15 and '16 offseason is crucial, though.

Sando went with the Geelong selection policy and it took until late 2014 to twig it wasn't working. We inherited no A+ (currently playing) veteran players from the 2000's drafts so this policy was never going to work.

This year have played a very large number of younger players and got 2 rising star noms. The overall selection policy is not the question. It's rather how we deal with Senior players that have performed in the past but are now not pulling their weight. Given VB was sent back to the SANFL........

We might not be where we should, but we are also not as bad as the reactionary posting after a poor loss.

Our list needs to mature and we need a couple of key recruits.

We played s**t on the weekend. But a whole swathe of players were responsible. Not the 21st and 22nd selected. Dropping Wright and Mackay for Crouch and CEY is not going to address what we saw on the weekend one iota..... We would just move on the the next whipping boys.

 

[1970crow]

Pick 27
26 games in 4 years
Injury prone

Doubt we'd get better than Pick 35.

You can extend the games played to, "can't get a game ahead of Dmac, Wright or VB even when fit". But I think that's a key plank in the discussion. Probably should have played a few more. Same can be said for others.

 

[1970crow]

I agree that there have been signs of us being more competitive at times this year. Under Walsh I was confident of a step forward.

I don't agree that this is an overreaction. The positivity of Fagan, Roo & Walsh has worn off somewhat and I'm left looking at the club and thinking that not a lot has really changed. It is 10 years worth of going around in circles and making the same decisions over and over again, whilst somehow hoping for a miracle with a different outcome.
Nothing to do with the Sydney game - which I put down to illness at the club.

Will not change while Noble heads up the footy dept. Very, very simple.

 

[GROTTO]

At a guess, I'd say it's because we weren't interested in a small forward with the pick that was used on Mackay. The position in the draft in which those two players were picked is when you're drafting on a needs basis.

For the life of me I have no idea what our needs were back in 06, but Im sure we needed a goal kicker.

With that said, wasnt Welsh and Porps still in the team?

 

[GROTTO]

You can extend the games played to, "can't get a game ahead of Dmac, Wright or VB even when fit". But I think that's a key plank in the discussion. Probably should have played a few more. Same can be said for others.

Yet I love how we have given generous contracts to 400kay and VB.

 

[TexForPM]

I 100% understand where you are coming from. Fagan and Roo have said everything correct. Walsh definitely talked about 2017 and was setting a plan to work towards it. The Walsh death has been a disaster of epic proportions.

However, don't you feel like we are back on the merry-go-round now? We are selecting Thompson and playing him in the middle all game every game. How is that for the future? The harsh reality is that Thommo won't be part of a premiership team. He just won't be. So why pick him ahead of CEY who has shown some real ability and could be part of one? Should we be getting game sin to BOB and working on his game at the top level?

We pick Thommo because we are focussed on this week and this season only.

We know what Wright brings and what his deficiencies are. Is he really going to improve any further? Could Atkins do his role better? What about Lyon? You don't find out by picking these guys and playing them as the sub.

It is a difficult time to ask the big questions I agree, but we have been doing the same thing for at least 10 years now. Surely we have had enough and realised that aiming for mid table is not a recipe for ultimate success. Surely we know that some of the players we currently have in the team can't and won't take us to the top. When is enough enough?

I want to hear from our club that we have a single minded goal - premiership. That whatever coach we select will be working to that and that alone. I want to know that when we interview coaches we want to see their plan from day 1 to premiership day. I want to know that we are telling our recruiters exactly what we need to get there.

I just want to know that we have a PLAN. Not a hope or a maybe, but a clear definable plan.

We should be picking the best side available. Otherwise based on playing in a flag Riewoldt would never get a game again, you can name heaps of stars.
What's most important is getting kids games but having the leadership in the team to make them better (decision, responsibility etc etc).
By dropping all these leaders the young kids don't learn from our best and they need to. CEY, Crouch Jnr, Atkins, Wigg etc will get a lot of games. The balance must be right.
But you can't just jump at shadows from a big loss. Look, i have no idea why they didn't turn up. We looked fast against port and ferocious. Against the swans we looked slow, so, so slow.
I turned it off I was getting so angry, I had to otherwise something in the near vicinity would have copped it (GF received short sharp retaliation).
We have had too many changes and sh*t things happen lately, we need to stick fat. Admin is changing for the right direction we need to have some faith in the coaches and selectors. If it keeps happening fair enough. But right now we need to wait it out.

 

[adelaidecrows]

The unfortunate reality of the club is its future has stalled. There was a clear vision with which Phil Walsh along with Fagen and Roo were working towards. The sad fact Phil is no longer with us (thanks again Cy) does leave the club in limbo and there is no doubt a conga line of mistakes building up around the place that had Phil been here he probably wouldn't have allowed. Some of those are no doubt going to be selection policies. I think bitching and moaning about selection and the direction of the club 4 weeks after the death of the coach is nothing short of a waste of time and energy. It wouldn't surprise me if some internal bickering has started to take place between the board and coaching staff with robust debate taking place on what direction the club wants to take towards the end of the season. Do they audition the kids for a new coach or do they try and make the finals with the best possible squad etc. For all we know the crows could also be preparing to actually trade Dangerfield now to get new talent into the club. The unknowns are ever increasing.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

For the life of me I have no idea what our needs were back in 06, but Im sure we needed a goal kicker.

With that said, wasnt Welsh and Porps still in the team?

Roo, Goody, Macca, Edwards, Shirley Burton and Mattner on the wings

 

[GROTTO]

The thing is, that that strategy would have been completely useless in mitigating any of the 'go home' losses we've actually had, and even a potential loss of Dangerfield.

I would even argue further that Danger would stay if we were bona fide premiership chance, so the fact is (giving evidence against my suggestion of exploring SA options) we have contributed to him wanting to go home.

Top teams can negate the go home factor by being a better place to play AFL then their respective home states.

 

[1970crow]

One of the reasons I'm fairly optimistic about our list is that I think CEY, M Crouch and Grigg have ability. However, we're doing our best to have them follow the Brodie Martin career path

M Crouch more likely the Gunston career path.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Our selection policy 10 years ago was probably right for the time, and not the reason we didn't get premierships in 05 and 06....... and it wasn't the reason we couldn't win one from 08 to 14.... Drafting spuds in the 2000's is.

How we have developed our players over a long period of time (and continue to) is why we have missed the finals in five of the last six seasons.

What on earth are you talking about with premierships in 05/06? That is nothing to do with anything. Ricciuto, Hart, McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards - we had inherited absolute champions who were in their prime then.

We are quibbling over the selection and non-selection over 4 or so players, 2 in 2 out. This is the micro.

It is the absolute OPPOSITE of the micro!

It is a deeply ingrained philosophy that has under-pinned our club's entire approach to football for over a decade! It is our absolute cornerstone belief! It is everything that defines the Adelaide Football Club.

Best 22, focus on the game ahead, make the finals and anything can happen, kids will get games when they're ready. Experience counts.

This year have played a very large number of younger players and got 2 rising star noms. The overall selection policy is not the question. It's rather how we deal with Senior players that have performed in the past but are now not pulling their weight. Given VB was sent back to the SANFL........

Of course it is. It's the only question. We select our team as though we are a contender. We topped up with Podsiadly after we'd missed the finals!

If we're trying to beat Richmond this week we would pick a different team than if we took the attitude that winning would be beneficial, but the real focus is on building a premiership contender in 2017.

This is the fundamental question that dictates everything else - selection, drafting, recruiting, staffing.

We played s**t on the weekend. But a whole swathe of players were responsible. Not the 21st and 22nd selected. Dropping Wright and Mackay for Crouch and CEY is not going to address what we saw on the weekend one iota..... We would just move on the the next whipping boys.

Why's that?

And how would we know? We've never done anything like that, ever.

 

[GROTTO]

Roo, Goody, Macca, Edwards, Shirley Burton and Mattner on the wings

With that core we should have done better as a Club when we blew our chances in the prelims against the Eagles in 00s. Especially that home prelim final.

That was one of my most depressing times as a Crows supporter losing that game, went to sleep straight after that game and got up the next day. Pretty sure from memory that game finished by 6ish too.

 

[1970crow]

With regards to building towards the future, let's face it, Thommo is a gun, but we need to keep our eye on the prize. GWS is looking for top talent MA players to compliment their young list. As much as it pains me to say it, Thommo would have currency (look at the age groups they have recruited recently), do we trade a champion like Thommo out for a couple of young up and coming GWS players (e.g. Wilson and Hampton ), for a win/win for both clubs?


#ForeverAFC

The only place Thommo will get a contract for 2016 is with us. Our stoppage system is built around him and his weaknesses. No one else will be interested, least of all GWS with the quality they have.

 

[GROTTO]

Why's that?

And how would we know? We've never done anything like that, ever.

Almost every Crows poster on this board calls for the 400kay and Wright to be dropped and yet they play.

I believe what you stated, how would we know? To an extent though we do know that our bottom players on the field would improve with their replacements, I am confident of that.

Seeing clanger after clanger, poor decision making coupled with being rag dolled almost always, Mackay is the perfect package of a player that makes the opposition stronger, akin to playing 19 v 17 players.

 

[GROTTO]

The only place Thommo will get a contract for 2016 is with us. Our stoppage system is built around him and his weaknesses. No one else will be interested, least of all GWS with the quality they have.

Irony is, he may be better suited going to a Club like Melbourne that need mature bodies in the midfield.

 

[1970crow]

We should be picking the best side available. Otherwise based on playing in a flag Riewoldt would never get a game again, you can name heaps of stars.
What's most important is getting kids games but having the leadership in the team to make them better (decision, responsibility etc etc).
By dropping all these leaders the young kids don't learn from our best and they need to. CEY, Crouch Jnr, Atkins, Wigg etc will get a lot of games. The balance must be right.
But you can't just jump at shadows from a big loss. Look, i have no idea why they didn't turn up. We looked fast against port and ferocious. Against the swans we looked slow, so, so slow.
I turned it off I was getting so angry, I had to otherwise something in the near vicinity would have copped it (GF received short sharp retaliation).
We have had too many changes and sh*t things happen lately, we need to stick fat. Admin is changing for the right direction we need to have some faith in the coaches and selectors. If it keeps happening fair enough. But right now we need to wait it out.

The issue at present is Wright & Dmac, who aren't leaders but get games ahead of future leaders and better players like M Crouch.

 

[GROTTO]

The issue at present is Wright & Dmac, who aren't leaders but get games ahead of future leaders and better players like M Crouch.

Lets be honest, he is a good go home candidate. Why should he stay at the Crows were arguably he could easily be a starting 18 at a few Victorian Clubs.

 

[TexForPM]

The issue at present is Wright & Dmac, who aren't leaders but get games ahead of future leaders and better players like M Crouch.

Yeah drop them.

 

[Red mist]

The only place Thommo will get a contract for 2016 is with us. Our stoppage system is built around him and his weaknesses. No one else will be interested, least of all GWS with the quality they have.

Our stoppage system may be built around Sauce and Thommo at the drop and it's effective when sauce is dominant numbers wise, but in today's game it is inherently flawed as it lacks the key component of fluid movement. It is too fricken static. The exit strategy after the initial tap down is broke or just not quick and composed enough.

 

[GROTTO]

Yeah drop them.

Maybe I was a bit drunk but I am sure 400kay had a sequence of clanger after clanger every time he had possession last game.

But we all know what will happen one spud for another. IN - VB , OUT - 400kay. Its like having an identical twin player.