Crows reserve side

[Vader]

The art of sarcasm is a bit lost on you Vader , it was really just a cheap shot at South Adelaide (have a few contacts whom have worked & played there and one who is still playing there & their joint is run pretty badly, if they weren't so far away from Port or Sturt they would've merged with one of them ages ago)

If ever we were to send them somewhere, South Adelaide would be the best suggestion of where. Look at what they did to VB, Mackay and Otten...

 

[Southerntakeover]

If ever we were to send them somewhere, South Adelaide would be the best suggestion of where. Look at what they did to VB, Mackay and Otten...

Players sent to South Adelaide have it easy. They dont have to worry about learning a second game plan.

 

[CarnCrows]

Players sent to South Adelaide have it easy. They dont have to worry about learning a second game plan.

Or competition for spots

 

[Papa G]

Whose suggested differently?

Some people here just care about the health of football in this state on a broader scale then just the fortunes of their AFL club.

You've consistantly failed to understand this that Crows supporters would rather football live than the Crows, whereas it seems people like you would be happy for the sport of football to no longer exist so long as the Port Adelaide Power continued as an entity.

So you think the fabric of football at every level would be destroyed if Port and the Crows had a team in the SANFL? I don't. A lot of people that go to the SANFL do so because they hate the AFL, Crows and the Power. The only thing clubs would be worried about (except losing a couple of fringe AFL players) would be that existing supporters would abandon their clubs and follow the Crows reserves. Do you actually think this will happen?

 

[jo172]

I go on the theory that our South Adelaide players play better because they're so determined not to have to spend so much time a) playing at South Adelaide and b) driving down to Noarlunga that out of sheer desperation for an AFL game they play better!

 

[jo172]

So you think the fabric of football at every level would be destroyed if Port and the Crows had a team in the SANFL? I don't. A lot of people that go to the SANFL do so because they hate the AFL, Crows and the Power. The only thing clubs would be worried about (except losing a couple of fringe AFL players) would be that existing supporters would abandon their clubs and follow the Crows reserves. Do you actually think this will happen?

Err no, that's not the only thing that will happen, it will fundamentally strain the fabric of the competition, compare what's happened in WA and Victoria as examples.

But for what it's worth I think a significant amount of people would be far less interested in their SANFL team if the Crows and Port had reserves team, particularly the Crows.

Hell, just consider your position if there was both a Port Adelaide Magpies regular SANFL side and a Port Adelaide Power AFL reserves SANFL side. You can't tell me that the average Port Adelaide/Port Adelaide supporter's alleigances would be at least split.

 

[PrideOf]

So you think the fabric of football at every level would be destroyed if Port and the Crows had a team in the SANFL? I don't. A lot of people that go to the SANFL do so because they hate the AFL, Crows and the Power.

Do have anything to back this up? I also know a 'lot' of people that go to the SANFL but they have an allegiance to a local team and they still follow either the Crows or Port Power.

The only real winner out of AFL reserves sides in the SANFL would be Port, having a presence in both comps and being able to leverage off of it. That's why I'm not surprised the concept is most popular down your way but nowhere else.

 

[Dujon11]

Ridiculous overstatement.

Maybe 30% of football supporters in SA have an interest in the SANFL. The rest follow the AFL exclusively.

A Crows reserve team would attract the interest of those supporters back to the SANFL.

If you really like your SANFL team, you'll keep supporting them, and maybe just have a pang of guilt when they play the Crows reserves. The reserves team will actually bring 15,000 more supporters to the SANFL.

And maybe we can get some value for the money we've been pouring into the SANFL over the years ...

That means 70% of the people on here shouldnt comment because they know nothing about SANFL footy.

I was a Bays fan long before the Crows, and became a Crows fan as the Glenelg Coach, Captain and VC moved across.

SANFL is still strong because it clings to history and proud South Australian club traditions. Throw in 2 composite sides and that makes a mockery of everything it stands for.

100% against reserve feeder sides in the SANFL.

PS It will never happen as neither side haas a big enough squad to cover 2 teams.

 

[Papa G]

Do have anything to back this up? I also know a 'lot' of people that go to the SANFL but they have an allegiance to a local team and they still follow either the Crows or Port Power.

The only real winner out of AFL reserves sides in the SANFL would be Port, having a presence in both comps and being able to leverage off of it. That's why I'm not surprised the concept is most popular down your way but nowhere else.

Actually the AFC would also be a big winner. As I said before, Trigg, Craigy, the whole organisation would jump at the chance to have a reserves side. They tried for years, realised the SANFL wouldn't allow it, so just made best with what the SANFL dictated to them. Now that the issue has been raised again because of PAFC/PAMFC merger talks, Triggy has just thrown in his 2 cents on a subject he thought was dead and buried. I am sure deep down, Triggy would love Port to get a reserves side because that would just open the door for the Crows.

Triggy and Craig's primary concern, as it should be, is the well being of the Crows, not the SANFL. Obviously he has to be diplomatic to both placate Whicker and obviously the defenders of the SANFL's honour that exist amongst many Crows supporters, but he unlike many of the Crows supporters like yourself, he isn't wearing 2 hats.

 

[brucetiki]

Do have anything to back this up? I also know a 'lot' of people that go to the SANFL but they have an allegiance to a local team and they still follow either the Crows or Port Power.

The only real winner out of AFL reserves sides in the SANFL would be Port, having a presence in both comps and being able to leverage off of it. That's why I'm not surprised the concept is most popular down your way but nowhere else.

Venture onto some of the SA Football based forums (and even some of the SANFL club forums), and you will see quite a few people on there who hate the AFL with a passion. Then there are some who will follow the SANFL with a passion with a passing interest in the AFL.

You only have to look at the VFL competition to see what happens when a competition merely becomes an AFL feeder competition.

Also, if anything, Crows and Port reserves sides IMO would actually decrease SANFL attendances - VFL crowds are now so low they no longer publish attendance figures.

 

[aneale]

Err no, that's not the only thing that will happen, it will fundamentally strain the fabric of the competition, compare what's happened in WA and Victoria as examples.

But for what it's worth I think a significant amount of people would be far less interested in their SANFL team if the Crows and Port had reserves team, particularly the Crows.

Particularly the VFA/VFL. What has happened to those clubs is scandalous. Supporters of that comp have left it in droves due to the way Clubs are aligned, and you can see why some flatly refuse to do so. Altho' I don't ever see a situation like that could occur here, there is no valid reason to interfere with the SANFL to that level, or even risk jeopardising it with a stand alone Crows side (which they could never fill with players) or by aligning with Norwood for example.

Only those who barely remember the game without the Crows would ever lose interest in their SANFL allegiances, mostly because they don't have the true connection anyway. Anyone aged about 25 and under never saw the SANFL for what it truly was anyway. There will be some who are ingrained due to their parents etc and never leave their SANFL club of course, but I suspect that all those who were adult when the Crows came in would be less likely to start following a Crows ressies team beyond casual interest.

 

[neddy36]

I too am against AFL teams having a reserves side in the SANFL. We saw last year with the quality of South Adelaide's list that the SANFL cannot have a 10th team further watering down the standard of the competition. Sure we are providing more footballers out there a chance to play SANFL football but at what cost to the general standard and skill of the competition. There will be an extra 40-50 players running around at SANFL that are not currently up to standard.

If people think "hey yeah a reserves team will be great, let's make it happen", there are some things to consider from an SANFL and AFL team perspective.

• Where does the Reserves team play their home games? It may not be as easy as saying, "hey let's use Thebby!!".
• Will the SANFL Reserves be a 9 or 10 team competition? If it remains a 9 team then where does the Crows reserves team source players when injuries strike? These players that are not AFL-listed that play just for the Crows reserves side or the reserves reserves side , do they train with Crows at Max Basheer or seperately on Mondays, Wednedays and Fridays at a different location?
• Hiring of a Reserves Coach, assistants, support staff (trainers, physios, water people), you couldn't use the AFL staff as their may be schedule clashes. Getting trainers/volunteers is quite difficult for some current SANFL clubs, so a new club could be taking away these people, further placing pressure on the current 9 teams
• Hiring more SANFL gate staff, security, statisticians, sourcing more broadcasters for a 5th game of the round - the cost is significant

There are so many more issues that I am sure will come to me later.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

So you think the fabric of football at every level would be destroyed if Port and the Crows had a team in the SANFL? I don't. A lot of people that go to the SANFL do so because they hate the AFL, Crows and the Power. The only thing clubs would be worried about (except losing a couple of fringe AFL players) would be that existing supporters would abandon their clubs and follow the Crows reserves. Do you actually think this will happen?

And how do you think those people are going to react to what they would see as their competition being destroyed by AFL reserve teams coming in? It is the epitomy of what they hate, do you really think they are going to go along with it blindly? A lot of them will see it as the last insult to the SANFL competition and could well abandon it in favour of say amateur league. And once SANFL clubs lose these die hard supporters who usually make a fair financial contribution in the form of memberships and merchandise what then?

 

[Papa G]

And how do you think those people are going to react to what they would see as their competition being destroyed by AFL reserve teams coming in? It is the epitomy of what they hate, do you really think they are going to go along with it blindly? A lot of them will see it as the last insult to the SANFL competition and could well abandon it in favour of say amateur league. And once SANFL clubs lose these die hard supporters who usually make a fair financial contribution in the form of memberships and merchandise what then?

Essentially you are arguing then that only the Crows shouldn't be allowed to be in the SANFL, because from a supporters point of view, I don't think having the Port Adelaide Magpies as the Power's reserves team would make one iota of differnce to the average SANFL supporter. They still see them as Port Adelaide and it would have vitually no impact on their team except again they'd lose a couple of AFL fringe players which would easily be replaced with ex AFL fringe players from Victoria that seem to be so prevelant in the league at the moment. What your arguing is that the Crows shouldn't have a reserves team because in your view it would screw the other SANFL clubs. But of course Port can't have one, because it would be unfair to the Crows.

 

[jo172]

Essentially you are arguing then that only the Crows shouldn't be allowed to be in the SANFL, because from a supporters point of view, I don't think having the Port Adelaide Magpies as the Power's reserves team would make one iota of differnce to the average SANFL supporter. They still see them as Port Adelaide and it would have vitually no impact on their team except again they'd lose a couple of AFL fringe players which would easily be replaced with ex AFL fringe players from Victoria that seem to be so prevelant in the league at the moment. What your arguing is that the Crows shouldn't have a reserves team because in your view it would screw the other SANFL clubs. But of course Port can't have one, because it would be unfair to the Crows.

It also wouldn't be fair on the other 8 clubs competing with Port Power in the SANFL.

But apart from that there seems nothing unreasonable about your summation (nor any rebuttal in it).

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Essentially you are arguing then that only the Crows shouldn't be allowed to be in the SANFL, because from a supporters point of view, I don't think having the Port Adelaide Magpies as the Power's reserves team would make one iota of differnce to the average SANFL supporter. They still see them as Port Adelaide and it would have vitually no impact on their team except again they'd lose a couple of AFL fringe players which would easily be replaced with ex AFL fringe players from Victoria that seem to be so prevelant in the league at the moment. What your arguing is that the Crows shouldn't have a reserves team because in your view it would screw the other SANFL clubs. But of course Port can't have one, because it would be unfair to the Crows.

Wrong. I am saying ANY AFL reserve team being placed in the SANFL would annoy a lot of the die hard SANFL followers. But not a surprise to see you try and twist it to say it is alright for Port.

 

[Papa G]

Wrong. I am saying ANY AFL reserve team being placed in the SANFL would annoy a lot of the die hard SANFL followers. But not a surprise to see you try and twist it to say it is alright for Port.

You reckon? I don't. Port are Port as I evidence every time I go to an SANFL game and see the abomination running around by the Prison Bars getting spanked by 10 goals and the opposition supporters getting overly excited. They can not see the difference between beating the Magpies nowdays and the oh to infrequent victories they had 20 or 30 years ago - it's still a moment to rejoice. Plonk a Power reserves team in that guernsey and the reaction will still be the same.

 

[aneale]

You reckon? I don't. Port are Port as I evidence every time I go to an SANFL game and see the abomination running around by the Prison Bars getting spanked by 10 goals and the opposition supporters getting overly excited. They can not see the difference between beating the Magpies nowdays and the oh to infrequent victories they had 20 or 30 years ago - it's still a moment to rejoice. Plonk a Power reserves team in that guernsey and the reaction will still be the same.

what about of all the real Port fans who this move is also designed to lure to the Power? those disenfranchised by the plastic AFL model? Jo said that the move would annoy a lot of die hard SANFL followers, he didn't stipulate that this was only the Legs, Tigers, Panthers, Roosters, Dogs, Blues, Bloods and Eagles fans.

Those people are a big player in this, the die hards who stil go and don't support the Power and those who don't actively support either yet call themselves Port fans are the missing that Port desperately need.

I couldn't think of anything worse than the Magpies being flooded with Port flogs, its OK when there is a couple, mixed with some Crows listed players it isn't noticeable. However, if all new draftees and listed plyaers were to get lumped there that would be crap.

 

[Papa G]

what about of all the real Port fans who this move is also designed to lure to the Power? those disenfranchised by the plastic AFL model? Jo said that the move would annoy a lot of die hard SANFL followers, he didn't stipulate that this was only the Legs, Tigers, Panthers, Roosters, Dogs, Blues, Bloods and Eagles fans.

Those people are a big player in this, the die hards who stil go and don't support the Power and those who don't actively support either yet call themselves Port fans are the missing that Port desperately need.

I couldn't think of anything worse than the Magpies being flooded with Port flogs, its OK when there is a couple, mixed with some Crows listed players it isn't noticeable. However, if all new draftees and listed plyaers were to get lumped there that would be crap.

I think you overstate how many Magpie and Magpie only fans would take this point of view. In terms of what it would mean to the Magpies support and SANFL support as whole, the effect would be miniscule.

 

[aneale]

I think you overstate how many Magpie and Magpie only fans would take this point of view. In terms of what it would mean to the Magpies support and SANFL support as whole, the effect would be miniscule.

i think you undestate it, in fact the entire Port club does hence why they beat their chest about 30,000 fans week in week out and the reality is that they draw 17,000 fans to a game where 2 greats retire. The AFL club is on the nose and sent true fans away in droves well before their onfield dramas got it to critical proportions, Power-rising the Magpies could result in something similar, there are already enough disenfranchised by the whole affair that they stopped going to SANFL and wiped their hands of the Power to boot.

Not only could the Power be seen as not the real Port they could be seen as responsible for killing the real Port particularly if they can't afford the cost of running the 4 teams associated with them and inevitably knife them.

The SANFL would be better off making it a 8 team comp and play Port for no points throughout a 9 team draw.

 

[sigur]

How would you determine a fair salary cap for the new side given that AFL listed players don't come under the SANFL cap (apart from a nominal match payment)? And for the Port reserves would they still be sourcing from the current maggies zones or would the entire SANFL zone system have to be re-adjusted to make an equitable player distribution. If an AFL reserves side won the premiership would it be considered a tainted win? (Hell Yeah!) Where would the extra players for the Crows reserves come from - other sanfl clubs or amateur league?

Seems like so much is wrong about this idea, and I can't see any benefit to the AFL sides.

 

[jo172]

Just to preface this I'm against this idea.

But if it were to happen the most logical logistic way to do it would be to have the 10th side as a joint Power/Crows reserves side thus allowing for the number of players and allowing an even team number without Port barstadising the SANFL.

Thankfully it'll never happen though!

 

[Papa G]

Just to preface this I'm against this idea.

But if it were to happen the most logical logistic way to do it would be to have the 10th side as a joint Power/Crows reserves side thus allowing for the number of players and allowing an even team number without Port barstadising the SANFL.

Now that is Crazy!

 

[beartoo]

I started thinking that a reserves side would be a great idea, and after reading this thread I'm now convinced that it wouldn't be. I hadn't considered the effect on the SANFL.
As some great man once said, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

 

[Papa G]

Not only could the Power be seen as not the real Port they could be seen as responsible for killing the real Port particularly if they can't afford the cost of running the 4 teams associated with them and inevitably knife them.

Where do you get this drivel? The Magpies are on their knees, they have stated without the Power merger they'll either be dead now or in 2 years time. If these so called "Port" supporters can't see that the PAFC's involvement is crucial they are not only as dumb as dog shit, they are welcome to go watch Port Districts and start calling them the "real" Port.