"Crows salary cap crisis" SEN

[hey shorty]

Hamish Hartlett says hi

Ben/Sam Reid, Charlie Dixon

 

[Scorpus]

Ben/Sam Reid, Charlie Dixon

Matthew Lobbe holds the record for the worst long term contract in the AFL

 

[hey shorty]

Matthew Lobbe

Tom Boyd and Josh Kelly if you consider body of work.

 

[1970crow]

What about Caro who rang the managers of players at our club to see if their client had been asked to take a pay cut and they all said no.

Caro is a paid (in kind) mouthpiece of the club, as she is of the AFL. She gets the scoops, she writes the slanted articles we need. You must have missed the turnaround from her teeing off on us for being a rabble when Sando was sacked and claiming we were a solid club under Trigg. Of course, this fitted perfectly with her turnaround on Trigg who she wanted sacked when it supported Vlad's stance after Trigg-gate, but then supported as a good operator who made one mistake after Gillon had pushed him into Carlton. Yeh, Caro's just a pure journalist who calls it exactly as she sees it.

 

[Captain Furious]

Hale at North and Vickery at Richmond couldn't possibly be more similar. Almost identical games played. Almost identical disposal, goal, mark and hit out averages.

Yes you mentioned that already. Again, a prime example of how numbers aren't a true reflection of football.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Are you the same guy deaneus and Sanders?

I'm so confused right now

That would be one hell of a split personality!

 

[Crowhorse]

A war chest is plausible, a lot of the 2nd to 3rd tiers would sign a front loaded to make up the cap no troubles.

It's the AAA's of the club that swallow the cap, difficult to front load, must be costed annually due to the size of their contracts.

Crows haven't had the pressure to re-sign a AAA in recent years and seem to have a good team oriented base of senior players.

Even if we don't land a Fyfe or Martin we would still need room to re-sign Sloane et al in this/future years when the premierships are won. No way Laird would remain an underpaid player if he is already.

 

[Sanders]

Are you the same guy deaneus and Sanders?

Yes

 

[Sanders]

Yes you mentioned that already. Again, a prime example of how numbers aren't a true reflection of football.

Or...

 

[Captain Furious]

Matthew Lobbe holds the record for the worst long term contract in the AFL

Mark Mecuri

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Brendan Fevola

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yes you mentioned that already. Again, a prime example of how numbers aren't a true reflection of football.

Vickery's stats are padded by getting spoonfed the ball by that silky Richmond midfield plus all their easy wins

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Lyons got a small offer because Pyke didn't see him in the 22 in a remodeled midfield built on more pace and pressure on the ball carrier.

He got the offer of a depth player. Not sure why you think this confirms we traded him for cap space. In fact it does the opposite.

That's right. Can't afford to pay your depth players too much. Cos otherwise it places undue pressure on your salary cap.

Lyons and Henderson at market rates were too expensive and would have squeezed our cap too much. So we got rid of them, even though we knew they'd be better value this season than Pick 83 or a vacant list spot.

This "crows are exploiting SA players" narrative is both nonsense and insulting to our SA players, whom it implies are too pathetic to move anywhere to get paid what they deserve.

You don't think home state is a factor in player retention?

 

[Captain Furious]

Vickery's stats are padded by getting spoonfed the ball by that silky Richmond midfield plus all their easy wins

Have you a) ever watched Vickery play? or are b) related to Vickery?

I've just never heard anyone passionately defending him, including Richmond supporters (especially Richmond supporters).

Also yet to meet a Hawthorn supporter not utterly dismayed at their recruitment of him.

 

[Sanders]

Have you a) ever watched Vickery play? or are b) related to Vickery?

I've just never heard anyone passionately defending him, including Richmond supporters (especially Richmond supporters).

Also yet to meet a Hawthorn supporter not utterly dismayed at their recruitment of him.

Oh cmon, this is 3 or 4 posts on different threads just today referencing imaginary supporters who all happen to agree with you.

Funny that.

I've yet to meet... the majority think... people on here are a minority unlike the majority I mix with... etc etc

Make your arguments but don't think an invented consensus is the way to get your point across

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Have you a) ever watched Vickery play? or are b) related to Vickery?

I've just never heard anyone passionately defending him, including Richmond supporters (especially Richmond supporters).

Also yet to meet a Hawthorn supporter not utterly dismayed at their recruitment of him.

No one is pumping up his tyres. All I'm saying is that he's similar now to Hale was when the Hawks recruited him.

It's you who remember Hale as a Simon Madden/Tony Lockett hybrid.

Also you who are insisting those multiple premiership winning Hawks are dunce hat wearing numpties.

 

[Captain Furious]

Oh cmon, this is 3 or 4 posts on different threads just today referencing imaginary supporters who all happen to agree with you.

Funny that.

I've yet to meet... the majority think... people on here are a minority unlike the majority I mix with... etc etc

Make your arguments but don't think an invented consensus is the way to get your point across

Hahaha...thanks I really needed a good laugh. Posting advice from Sanders...hahahahahahaha

 

[Captain Furious]

No one is pumping up his tyres. All I'm saying is that he's similar now to Hale was when the Hawks recruited him.

It's you who remember Hale as a Simon Madden/Tony Lockett hybrid.

Also you who are insisting those multiple premiership winning Hawks are dunce hat wearing numpties.

I think my words to describe Hale were 'solid reliable player' but sure, make things up so your argument seems sensical in some way.

Have Hawthorn made some excellent decisions in the past? Yes. Are they completely infallible? No.

 

[1970crow]

The reason we moved on/lowballed any players was salary cap squeeze.

The reason we chose those two guys specifically instead of other players was the reasons people are saying here (too slow, not best 22).

If cap was no issue I'm sure they'd be handy depth, especially compared to <vacant list spot>

But both us have been saying for at least a couple of years now that we batted too deep and our solid depth consumed too much of our salary cap resources. It was a list geared to be able to suffer numerous injuries whilst maximising the probability of making the 8 rather than accepting a s**t year and picking up a high end draft pick. We're now addressing this issue and we're still complaining. In terms of midfield depth and ignoring Thommo's gold watch extension, we went into this season with CEY who played ok in games last year, Wigg who was apparently very close and Gore, who's a bit off it, but did show some nice moments in both preseasons so far. Plus there was Greenwood who has been on a consistent upward curve and Beech who is a mature body with 2 AFL preseasons in him now. Every one of those players is on the minimum and apart from Gore probably isn't going to be a huge downgrade on Lyons. Plus, and this is a presumption, I expect they knew they were going with the best available ready to go mid in the 2nd round and a more normal development curve mid in the first who might not be embarrassed if called upon. Bit of assumption there, but it makes sense to me. And then there's Lyons himself, and I have always rated him and felt him hard done by, which was proven last year, but he would be the first player in that depth list. Now, how much handy depth do you think a list can support whilst allocating the appropriate salary cap resources to the top end of the list.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

But both us have been saying for at least a couple of years now that we batted too deep and our solid depth consumed too much of our salary cap resources. It was a list geared to be able to suffer numerous injuries whilst maximising the probability of making the 8 rather than accepting a s**t year and picking up a high end draft pick. We're now addressing this issue and we're still complaining. In terms of midfield depth and ignoring Thommo's gold watch extension, we went into this season with CEY who played ok in games last year, Wigg who was apparently very close and Gore, who's a bit off it, but did show some nice moments in both preseasons so far. Plus there was Greenwood who has been on a consistent upward curve and Beech who is a mature body with 2 AFL preseasons in him now. Every one of those players is on the minimum and apart from Gore probably isn't going to be a huge downgrade on Lyons. Plus, and this is a presumption, I expect they knew they were going with the best available ready to go mid in the 2nd round and a more normal development curve mid in the first who might not be embarrassed if called upon. Bit of assumption there, but it makes sense to me. And then there's Lyons himself, and I have always rated him and felt him hard done by, which was proven last year, but he would be the first player in that depth list. Now, how much handy depth do you think a list can support whilst allocating the appropriate salary cap resources to the top end of the list.

Who's complaining?

It's good that we moved Henderson and Lyons on and freed up cap space.

The argument here is whether we did that or not.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think my words to describe Hale were 'solid reliable player' but sure, make things up so your argument seems sensical in some way.

Have Hawthorn made some excellent decisions in the past? Yes. Are they completely infallible? No.

And it's you who sees Solid Reliable Player Hale at the Kangas as in another stratosphere Vickery. Oh, but Champion Data just forgot to record most of Hale's best games which is why the stats are misleading.

There's a lol-factor to Richmond, I get it.

 

[hey shorty]

No one is pumping up his tyres. All I'm saying is that he's similar now to Hale was when the Hawks recruited him.

It's you who remember Hale as a Simon Madden/Tony Lockett hybrid.

Also you who are insisting those multiple premiership winning Hawks are dunce hat wearing numpties.

Hale did have some very handy games during his time at North, you could probably use 1 hand to describe Vickerys Tiger career.

It's a similar thought process which has seen Ty join Hawthorn but lightning rarely strikes twice in the same spot. They've recruited damn well over the years mind you, so they must've seen something.

 

[Captain Furious]

And it's you who sees Solid Reliable Player Hale at the Kangas as in another stratosphere Vickery. Oh, but Champion Data just forgot to record most of Hale's best games which is why the stats are misleading.

There's a lol-factor to Richmond, I get it.

Yes stats stats stats. You love stats to tell you whether a player's good or not. I prefer watching games. Games where I see Vickery king hit a guy for no reason. Get out marked by a midfielder. Miss a goal from the goal square. Just generally decide today's a day I don't give a s**t. Is there a stat for that?

 

[1970crow]

Who's complaining?

It's good that we moved Henderson and Lyons on and freed up cap space.

The argument here is whether we did that or not.

I can't really see how we didn't. I thought the argument was whether it was a necessity to be able to sign existing players or whether it adds to an under spent portion that's been getting rolled forward each year. Personally, I don't think there's really much evidence that there's a squeeze given that we had enough for Gibbs and also enough to piss away $200k on Thommo in appreciation of past deeds. Either way, our list profile is looking much better these days, Mackay is the only certain career depth player on our list, maybe Otten, but we're not stacked in players with his physical/playing characteristics.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yes stats stats stats. You love stats to tell you whether a player's good or not. I prefer watching games. Games where I see Vickery king hit a guy for no reason. Get out marked by a midfielder. Miss a goal from the goal square. Just generally decide today's a day I don't give a s**t. Is there a stat for that?

Is there a stat for Hale getting repeatedly dropped in his last season at the Kangas?