"Crows salary cap crisis" SEN

[Captain Furious]

If you'd have taken a poll of who thought Hale was a good pick up back when the Hawks first got him it would have run at about 0%

You're kidding yeah? Hawks gave up pick 25, had been Kangas leading goal kicker only a couple of seasons earlier including a bag of 8. Trade only happened because North had a surplus of ruckman and Hawthorn wanted a ruck/forward. Was always a well regarded player.

 

[Huntercrow]

But arent we going after Fyfe at 1.5 million or dusty at 1.2 million

Backloaded and assuming the additional 20% perhaps...


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I don't see the extra 20% as being available for gaining either player. I think the whole point of the cap increase in the CBA is to be used by the current players who would expect to increase their next contracts.

Wouldn't this be the whole point of the increase from a player point of view?

Wasn't this the main reason Sydney are losing their COLA? They were using it as a lure for marquee players rather than to be used for its original intention of supplementing players contracts for living in Sydney.

I think players and managers would expect the clubs would not spend this increase on new signings. Any club ignoring this would have major cap space issues come the next round of contract negotiations.

 

[Huntercrow]

When did we start believing the club's propaganda? Ever since Fagan took over, the club has been more secretive and less truthful than any organisation other than the US government. I accept that SEN's story may well be wrong, but I'm certainly not willing to take the club's word on it.

i agree the club is very secretive about on field issues and the closed training sessions.
Not too sure where they have been as dishonest in their dealings as you say. At least since the departure of Trigg.

 

[dude316]

My reaction when I first read the thread title

 

[Vader]

i agree the club is very secretive about on field issues and the closed training sessions.
Not too sure where they have been as dishonest in their dealings as you say. At least since the departure of Trigg.

Not sure they've been honest about anything. We can start with player injuries, and go from there...

Things hit rock bottom when Trigg lied to all and sundry, stating that there was no secret clause in the Scum's contract. But that was very much a one off for him. Keeping secrets and telling porky pies has become SOP since Fagan & Pyke took over. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not. It does make it very hard to trust them.

 

[footy4ever]

Not sure they've been honest about anything. We can start with player injuries, and go from there...

Things hit rock bottom when Trigg lied to all and sundry, stating that there was no secret clause in the Scum's contract. But that was very much a one off for him. Keeping secrets and telling porky pies has become SOP since Fagan & Pyke took over. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not. It does make it very hard to trust them.

I don't think we should blame the club for having an...optimistic outlook on our injured players.

And what are these lies and secrets?

 

[LoBu]

Not sure they've been honest about anything. We can start with player injuries, and go from there...

Things hit rock bottom when Trigg lied to all and sundry, stating that there was no secret clause in the Scum's contract. But that was very much a one off for him. Keeping secrets and telling porky pies has become SOP since Fagan & Pyke took over. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not. It does make it very hard to trust them.

You talk like we have moved away from a rosier time, when men were men and told the truth. Your rock bottom was when the club - not Tippett- got caught cheating. Just like many other clubs, and disgracing us. But to think we turned it all around and then started it all up again is fanciful.
All organisations talk the same corporate comms, you just have to understand that they don't want to give away any advantage but still need to satisfy their stakeholders. Adelaide is no different, salaries are kept quiet where possible, injuries obscured, strategies not discussed.
Remenisance of fonder times is a child like state we revert to when get too old.

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[Stiffy_18]

We shipped out Lyon because it became obvious we can't afford 2/3 slow players in the midfield. I think the first couple of rounds has gone some way to proving that we look a whole world better with just Mrouch as our only pace challenged mid.

And that contract to Lyon came well before Gibbs came into the picture.

So that meltdown that we let Lyons go around the trade deadline was what exactly for if we didn't want him?! If we didn't want him why did we offer him a contract? If we didn't want him why didn't we just not offer him a contract like we didn't offer one to Henderson?

Seriously some people are so ******* blinded and so defensive that if anyone dare say anything slightly incriminating against the club then god help them.

I keep saying, the salary cap situation is NOT as dire as the article suggests but I also say there is no war chest that people keep on talking about. We created money for Gibbs last season by getting VB to retire (was on a VERY good coin as an ex captain), not bringing back Henderson who despite popular belief was on a pretty decent coin. We also wanted to keep Lyons but gave him a smaller offer than what he wanted. He chose to go elsewhere and we brought back Thompson with the money we were offering Lyons. Had Lyons accepted, Thompson would not have been re-signed.

If we didn't want him back we would not have made an offer to him just like we never made on offer to Henderson. People like to think that players are taking less to stay with the club. I can tell you that Jenkins' deal is closer to the Brisbane figure (not that high) than what this board is believes it to be around $450k-$500k per year. He is one of the higher paid players at the club. B. Crouch also got a significant pay rise on his 4 year contract extension. Talia's deal is also up there.

And you if REALLY believe Reid's version of events about Gibbs coming to us last minute then I have some real estate for you. We were into Gibbs half way through the season and started putting things into place to free up the cap room. I was told we were into a midfielder but it was all hush hush and no name was forth coming. Now I know why! You remember that time the story broke of our interest in Rockliff and how he caught up with Burton?! Well that was around the time when we started putting feelers out to Gibbs. Henderson needed to play one more game to meet the trigger for his contract for this year. Funny how he was dropped after the WC game where he was in our top 2-3 players on the night. Bottom line his contract needed to come off the books to bring in Gibbs and we were happy to sacrifice some depth in that position as we felt there was enough coming through so that we could bring in a ready made midfielder to help out Sloane.

Our club is no different to other clubs. They must pay at least 95% of the cap each year and every club, including ours is operating closer to 100% than 95% most years. People talk about increases of salary cap where clubs were projecting 10% but its likely to be 20% as if that is going to create some more space. Majority of the contracts are linked to fluctuations of the salary cap which means, that if salary cap increases so does the salary of the signed player.

People are talking like we have a war chest of $1-1.5million to throw around in free agency. We don't. We have managed our cap well but we do not have that much available where we can keep our players and drop a $1-1.5m deal on a free agent. I fully expect us to have another go at Gibbs at the end of the year because that sort of money we probably can afford even when re-signing McGovern and Lever to reasonable contracts. I would personally be pretty happy if we can keep Lever and McGovern (I am confident we will) and bring in Gibbs. Any talk of war chest is just wishful thinking and when we fail to get a massive FA in, people will again go into a melt down mode.

 

[Huntercrow]

Not sure they've been honest about anything. We can start with player injuries, and go from there...

Things hit rock bottom when Trigg lied to all and sundry, stating that there was no secret clause in the Scum's contract. But that was very much a one off for him. Keeping secrets and telling porky pies has become SOP since Fagan & Pyke took over. Sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's not. It does make it very hard to trust them.

That one off from Trigg had the potential to ruin us for a decade at least. The consequences of his actions were far reaching. From the more obvious draft sanctions to the lesser obvious Bock signing by Gold Coast. To his idiotic refusal to trade Tippet to Brisbane. His absolute arrogance in believing he was smarter than everyone else including the board and the AFL was hard to comprehend.

For all their secrecy Fagan & Pyke are saints in comparison.

 

[Geoffa32]

Everytime I see this thread title I think of the ad for that manchester shop Designer Direct.

"Space crisis prices"

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[Stiffy_18]

If Dmack is on $400k that's not an issue?

Dmac gets singled out. There are at least 3 other players that are performing at a similar level or below Dmac's that are on similar money to that. So that is 4 players that you have $1.6m of salary cap tied to.

 

[Scorpus]

So that meltdown that we let Lyons go around the trade deadline was what exactly for if we didn't want him?! If we didn't want him why did we offer him a contract? If we didn't want him why didn't we just not offer him a contract like we didn't offer one to Henderson?

Seriously some people are so ******* blinded and so defensive that if anyone dare say anything slightly incriminating against the club then god help them.

I keep saying, the salary cap situation is NOT as dire as the article suggests but I also say there is no war chest that people keep on talking about. We created money for Gibbs last season by getting VB to retire (was on a VERY good coin as an ex captain), not bringing back Henderson who despite popular belief was on a pretty decent coin. We also wanted to keep Lyons but gave him a smaller offer than what he wanted. He chose to go elsewhere and we brought back Thompson with the money we were offering Lyons. Had Lyons accepted, Thompson would not have been re-signed.

If we didn't want him back we would not have made an offer to him just like we never made on offer to Henderson. People like to think that players are taking less to stay with the club. I can tell you that Jenkins' deal is closer to the Brisbane figure (not that high) than what this board is believes it to be around $450k-$500k per year. He is one of the higher paid players at the club. B. Crouch also got a significant pay rise on his 4 year contract extension. Talia's deal is also up there.

And you if REALLY believe Reid's version of events about Gibbs coming to us last minute then I have some real estate for you. We were into Gibbs half way through the season and started putting things into place to free up the cap room. I was told we were into a midfielder but it was all hush hush and no name was forth coming. Now I know why! You remember that time the story broke of our interest in Rockliff and how he caught up with Burton?! Well that was around the time when we started putting feelers out to Gibbs. Henderson needed to play one more game to meet the trigger for his contract for this year. Funny how he was dropped after the WC game where he was in our top 2-3 players on the night. Bottom line his contract needed to come off the books to bring in Gibbs and we were happy to sacrifice some depth in that position as we felt there was enough coming through so that we could bring in a ready made midfielder to help out Sloane.

Our club is no different to other clubs. They must pay at least 95% of the cap each year and every club, including ours is operating closer to 100% than 95% most years. People talk about increases of salary cap where clubs were projecting 10% but its likely to be 20% as if that is going to create some more space. Majority of the contracts are linked to fluctuations of the salary cap which means, that if salary cap increases so does the salary of the signed player.

People are talking like we have a war chest of $1-1.5million to throw around in free agency. We don't. We have managed our cap well but we do not have that much available where we can keep our players and drop a $1-1.5m deal on a free agent. I fully expect us to have another go at Gibbs at the end of the year because that sort of money we probably can afford even when re-signing McGovern and Lever to reasonable contracts. I would personally be pretty happy if we can keep Lever and McGovern (I am confident we will) and bring in Gibbs. Any talk of war chest is just wishful thinking and when we fail to get a massive FA in, people will again go into a melt down mode.

So if we made all these moves to free up salary cap space for Gibbs last year, where has that money gone? Surely that space is still available to us.

(Yes I'm aware we probably just adjusted some contracts to be more front-loaded in 2017, but the space would still be available in later years)

 

[Huntercrow]

How did this story written by some nobody from Geelong who beats up police vehicles gain enough ground in the mainstream press to force a response from the AFC?

 

[Mattrox]

Sorry what does this mean?

Edit - ahhh. Got it now!

Tongue in cheek.

On SM-G930F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[LoBu]

How did this story about some nobody from Geelong who beats up police vehicles gain enough ground in the mainstream press to force a response from the AFC?

Yeah I thought that was weird too

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[MRB37]

How did this story written by some nobody from Geelong who beats up police vehicles gain enough ground in the mainstream press to force a response from the AFC?

Because it starts off with a nobody, but then gets repeated around the trap so much that eventually becomes fact. Better to just nip it in the bud straight away before it even gets far.

 

[LoBu]

Because it starts off with a nobody, but then gets repeated around the trap so much that eventually becomes fact. Better to just nip it in the bud straight away before it even gets far.

A response gives it air time, even if to deny.

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[MRB37]

A response gives it air time, even if to deny.

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And it's now a dead report. Or if you say nothing it's talked and speculated about everywhere.

More clubs should be willing to hold "journalists" accountable for the bull they spew. Maybe then they'd actually do a better job.

 

[Elite Crow]

Dmac gets singled out. There are at least 3 other players that are performing at a similar level or below Dmac's that are on similar money to that. So that is 4 players that you have $1.6m of salary cap tied to.

I'm guessing Seeds is one but he's injured.
Menzel another, but we haven't really given him a chance after a promising start, that's on us.
Douglas I'm guessing? He's another senior player that needs to lift and show some consistency.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

So if we made all these moves to free up salary cap space for Gibbs last year, where has that money gone? Surely that space is still available to us.

(Yes I'm aware we probably just adjusted some contracts to be more front-loaded in 2017, but the space would still be available in later years)

As Stiffy has said, the cap situation isn't as dire as SEN suggests.

Just that there's no huge warchest.

 

[MRB37]

I'm guessing Seeds is one but he's injured.
Menzel another, but we haven't really given him a chance after a promising start, that's on us.
Douglas I'm guessing? He's another senior player that needs to lift and show some consistency.

Wouldn't be surprised to hear Dougie is on $600K+ to be honest.

 

[Scorpus]

As Stiffy has said, the cap situation isn't as dire as SEN suggests.

Just that there's no huge warchest.

Yeah I never believed there was a massive war chest. We would have spent a fair bit of the "Dangerfield money" on Menzel, Seedsman and Hampton. And we would have spent some of the Tippett money on Betts + contracts for our rising stars.

With the state of our list, I'd be surprised if we could afford a $1m+ player like North Melbourne allegedly can. But we should still have room for a Bryce Gibbs type

 

[Huntercrow]

Yeah I never believed there was a massive war chest. We would have spent a fair bit of the "Dangerfield money" on Menzel, Seedsman and Hampton. And we would have spent some of the Tippett money on Betts + contracts for our rising stars.

With the state of our list, I'd be surprised if we could afford a $1m+ player like North Melbourne allegedly can. But we should still have room for a Bryce Gibbs type

There was a rash of signings just before the Dangerfield decision was made public. It was pretty obvious the club new then that the Dangerfield money was a lost cause before his announcement.

 

[Stiffy_18]

So if we made all these moves to free up salary cap space for Gibbs last year, where has that money gone? Surely that space is still available to us.

(Yes I'm aware we probably just adjusted some contracts to be more front-loaded in 2017, but the space would still be available in later years)

So do you think that Lever and McGovern extensions will not be significant? I can guarantee you that they will be getting more than double on what they are on now especially since they are players from interstate that we want to keep.

Salary cap management is not a year to year proposition. Charlie Cameron, Rory Atkins etc will be up for contract extensions and one would say a reasonable amount more than what they are currently on. Matt Crouch will need to be extended in the next year or two. Jake Lever, Mitch McGovern, Wayne Milera and a handful of others are out of contract at the end of this year and all 3 will be getting more money than they currently are, especially the first two.

There is some long term planning that needs to take place as well if you want to keep this list together. I think we can maneuver
our way into re-signing those key players and possibly bringing in Gibbs at the end of the year.

If we genuinely had a war chest as people claim, then why did we pull the sort of moves late last year to create enough cap space to bring in Gibbs? VB out even though deep down he wanted to play on. Dropping Henderson after being one of our best against WCE so that his trigger for this season is not activated. Low ball Lyons and then when he declined use that money to sign Thompson who desperately wanted to play on? If we had a war chest as people believe we could have fit Gibbs in comfortably and still had enough room for another Gibbs level player.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I'm guessing Seeds is one but he's injured.
Menzel another, but we haven't really given him a chance after a promising start, that's on us.
Douglas I'm guessing? He's another senior player that needs to lift and show some consistency.

All of those are on $400k or more. There is another player that will play against Port who is on same money as Dmac.

When Dangerfield left, we used up money that we were going to use on him to bring in 4 players. We budgeted to re-sign Dangerfield and bring in one other player from the lot that we brought in that off-season.