Crows Strategy

[Elite Crow]

There appears 2 ways to win a premiership, bottom out and secure premium draft picks or trade players for top draft picks/players.

The club has emphatically stated they will not bottom out. They are also very hesitant to trade any players of quality to secure low picks.

Craig says we have to do it differently. Well what is that strategy? If its running with the ordinary draft process what you will get is a good team. But will it ever be a premiership team? Do they think we are a cut above the rest of the competition that we can identify and develop talent better than the rest of the competition? Our history of early draft picks proves we arent.

So where to from here?

 

[Mismatched]

There appears 2 ways to win a premiership, bottom out and secure premium draft picks or trade players for top draft picks/players.

The club has emphatically stated they will not bottom out. They are also very hesitant to trade any players of quality to secure low picks.

Craig says we have to do it differently. Well what is that strategy? If its running with the ordinary draft process what you will get is a good team. But will it ever be a premiership team? Do they think we are a cut above the rest of the competition that we can identify and develop talent better than the rest of the competition? Our history of early draft picks proves we arent.

So where to from here?

My god, will ppl stop bringing this one up, we have a new head of recruiting now, so how about we give him a chance, by the looks he did a great job last year, so how about we just give him a chance.

 

[Elite Crow]

My god, will ppl stop bringing this one up, we have a new head of recruiting now, so how about we give him a chance, by the looks he did a great job last year, so how about we just give him a chance.

Craig has said many times the ultimate decision on draft day is his, and he has been there for 4 drafts. But thats not the basis of my thread. How can we build a premiership team without low draft picks? I dont want to bottom out, so we have to trade for them. But it appears we have too many untouchables and Craig doesnt like the process. So he hates bottoming out and he hates trading. So now we are relying on Rendall being the best recruiter in the game which realistically will be tough assignment. Do you have an opinion on how we will build a premiership team?

 

[JunX]

Where to from here??????????????

MacKay, Knights, VB, Griffin, Moran, Tippett, Walker, Seller, Kite, Douglas, Vince, Dangerfield, Maric, Symes

All young, all look to be the goods, once they all have around 100 games each adelaide could be anything.

 

[Elite Crow]

Where to from here??????????????

MacKay, Knights, VB, Griffin, Moran, Tippett, Walker, Seller, Kite, Douglas, Vince, Dangerfield, Maric, Symes

All young, all look to be the goods, once they all have around 100 games each adelaide could be anything.

Youve listed some good players and some unproven/untried players. With any luck 4-6 of them might become very good players. But youve hit the nail on the head, they could be and then again they might not be. We are relying on chance rather than having a clear strategy. We have to be aggressive not hope that we can turn 50+ plus draft picks into a premiership team.

 

[cammo84]

Where to from here??????????????

MacKay, Knights, VB, Griffin, Moran, Tippett, Walker, Seller, Kite, Douglas, Vince, Dangerfield, Maric, Symes

All young, all look to be the goods, once they all have around 100 games each adelaide could be anything.

Very good point, we have some very good young players who will really hit their strides in the next few years once they gain a little more experience. A little patience and faith from some supporters would be nice. Only 2 years ago we were playing in our second prelim in 2 years. It isn't realistic to expect us to be up there again this early.

 

[ManInTheArena]

There appears 2 ways to win a premiership, bottom out and secure premium draft picks or trade players for top draft picks/players.

I don't think they are the only two methods to win a premiership. We came awfully close in 2005/2006 without bottoming out prior. I wouldn't go as far as saying Sydney or West Coast bottomed out before winning in those years either.

Everyone will now be jumping on the bandwagon saying that clubs need to do what Hawthorn have done, especially with the release of "The Draft".

Geelong's lowest draft pick running around in last years GF was pick 7 and that was Selwood and the only father/son that would have been top 10 was Hawkins (although not sure what Scarlett was touted as) who did not play.

I think the AFC strategy is play to win every year, be smart with draft picks and take a good trade if it comes up. I don't have a problem with that and have confidence in our new recruitment.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Youve listed some good players and some unproven/untried players. With any luck 4-6 of them might become very good players. But youve hit the nail on the head, they could be and then again they might not be. We are relying on chance rather than having a clear strategy. We have to be aggressive not hope that we can turn 50+ plus draft picks into a premiership team.

I would say our strategy has been to accumulate good young players and gradually integrate them into an ageing lineup so that in 4-5 years we have a genuine chance at winning the flag without ever crashing to finish bottom because we have lost Goodwin, McLeod, Edwards, Ricciuto, Hart, Bassett and Burton all at once. At the moment I would say it's going ok...

There is always an element of chance in the draft but to say that, of the list mentioned in the previous post, there are 4-6 players that might be very good and the rest unproven/untried, I think is a bit short sighted. Some might be unproven at AFL level, but at their different respective levels they have all shown themselves to be very good players at their early stage of development (perhaps Sellar excluded, but I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and more time at this stage), and have shown enough to suggest that they will be the nucleus of a very, very good side for the AFC.

 

[Elite Crow]

I don't think they are the only two methods to win a premiership. We came awfully close in 2005/2006 without bottoming out prior. I wouldn't go as far as saying Sydney or West Coast bottomed out before winning in those years either.

Everyone will now be jumping on the bandwagon saying that clubs need to do what Hawthorn have done, especially with the release of "The Draft".

Geelong's lowest draft pick running around in last years GF was pick 7 and that was Selwood and the only father/son that would have been top 10 was Hawkins (although not sure what Scarlett was touted as) who did not play.

I think the AFC strategy is play to win every year, be smart with draft picks and take a good trade if it comes up. I don't have a problem with that and have confidence in our new recruitment.

WC picked up Judd with pick 3. Sydney have traded aggressively over the years.

 

[Chief Crow]

Youve listed some good players and some unproven/untried players. With any luck 4-6 of them might become very good players. But youve hit the nail on the head, they could be and then again they might not be. We are relying on chance rather than having a clear strategy. We have to be aggressive not hope that we can turn 50+ plus draft picks into a premiership team.

to be fair it doesnt matter what picks you have to know if they will work out or not. You only have to look at last years draft. We would have picked up Dangerfield if we had pick 3 but still snagged him with pick 10

 

[AndrewJo]

Youve listed some good players and some unproven/untried players. With any luck 4-6 of them might become very good players. But youve hit the nail on the head, they could be and then again they might not be. We are relying on chance rather than having a clear strategy. We have to be aggressive not hope that we can turn 50+ plus draft picks into a premiership team.

It is not as simple as it sounds to be aggressive at the trade table. Have a look over the l;ast few years and tell me what players we might have lured to Adelaide from the Pre season drafts. Those like Judd etc would never have come to SA no matter how aggressive you would want to trade. John Reid makes no secret of the fact that we have really been aggressive in trying to lure Pav back but to no avail. It is easy to say be aggressive but we can only hope to be smarter in those we select.

 

[ManInTheArena]

WC picked up Judd with pick 3. Sydney have traded aggressively over the years.

WC had one low first round draft pick, that's not bottoming out. Sydney may have traded aggressively but generally you have to give as much as you get. I don't think you have a credible argument to suggest that teams have to bottom out or trade aggressively to win a premiership.

 

[Mismatched]

WC had one low first round draft pick, that's not bottoming out. Sydney may have traded aggressively but generally you have to give as much as you get. This is really not a credible argument to suggest that you have to bottom out or trade aggressively to win a premiership.

Hey, Fremantle traded aggressively, look where it got them, they lost almost all of their decent talent, how the hell they managed to hold onto Pavlich for so long, I don't think even God himself knows.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Hey, Fremantle traded aggressively, look where it got them, they lost almost all of their decent talent, how the hell they managed to hold onto Pavlich for so long, I don't think even God himself knows.

Yeah I think Fremantle nearly single handedly debunk the "trade aggressively to win a premiership" theory.

 

[Elite Crow]

It is not as simple as it sounds to be aggressive at the trade table. Have a look over the l;ast few years and tell me what players we might have lured to Adelaide from the Pre season drafts. Those like Judd etc would never have come to SA no matter how aggressive you would want to trade. John Reid makes no secret of the fact that we have really been aggressive in trying to lure Pav back but to no avail. It is easy to say be aggressive but we can only hope to be smarter in those we select.

By agressive I dont mean players because as you pointed out we cant attract the big fish. I am talking about trading players for picks. Everyone forgets the Hawks traded Thompson and Hay for good picks. Geelong traded Moloney for 13 I think.

Dont get me wrong, I think Craig is doing a good job of putting together a list with what he has had to work with. But Im worried its going to be good list without being elite. The Crows, Kangaroos and Sydney are about the only teams of recent times not to have benefited from low picks. Hawks, Geelong (they might not have many top 10, but they have had a lot of 10-25 picks), Carlton, Richmond, WC, WB, ST Kilda, Essendon, Port, Freo, Collingwood, Brisbane and Melbourne have all had their share of low picks. These teams are all at different stages of development but alot of them are on the way up. They all have players just like us who will benefit from 100 games under their belt.

This is why if the rumour is correct and Rendall wants to load up with picks in the 10-30 mark its a very good move. This draft is supposed to be quality all the way to 30. Imagine if we could secure 5 picks in this range. Especially give the weak future drafts. But to get these picks you have to give away players and its going to hurt. If there is half an element of truth in Griffen wanting to go home, then I would do it now for 2 picks in 20-30. Reilly could also fetch us a pick 20-30. We have other ruck options. Reilly misses alot of footy. Just when he looks like making his mark he breaks down.

This draft could be our watershed year and set us up for the future.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

One concern I have is that there seemed to be a feeling coming from the club that once you make the finals "anything can happen" with 1998 cited as an example. The club has never recognised 97/98 for the fluke that it was. We have never been the best team in the competition and, thus, have no idea about how to go about being the best team in the competition. If you do not finish top two you cannot realistically challenge for a flag.

Yeah I think Fremantle nearly single handedly debunk the "trade aggressively to win a premiership" theory.

Not really. They have traded for some pathetically bad players from other clubs who are already on their last legs. Hardly aggressively. Illogically is probably the right word.

 

[Crow-mo]

My god, will ppl stop bringing this one up, we have a new head of recruiting now, so how about we give him a chance, by the looks he did a great job last year, so how about we just give him a chance.

why should he stop bringing it up?

it's still true and relevant.

 

[Crow-mo]

Where to from here??????????????

MacKay, Knights, VB, Griffin, Moran, Tippett, Walker, Seller, Kite, Douglas, Vince, Dangerfield, Maric, Symes

All young, all look to be the goods, once they all have around 100 games each adelaide could be anything.

are we the only team with young players we are hoping might develop into something special?

 

[Crow-mo]

One concern I have is that there seemed to be a feeling coming from the club that once you make the finals "anything can happen" with 1998 cited as an example. The club has never recognised 97/98 for the fluke that it was.

agreed.

We have never been the best team in the competition and, thus, have no idea about how to go about being the best team in the competition. If you do not finish top two you cannot realistically challenge for a flag.

we were the best team in the comp in 2005 & 2006. but we ****ed it up.

 

[Mismatched]

why should he stop bringing it up?

it's still true and relevant.

Yes its true, we've struggled with first round draft picks in the past, a change is made and yet we're still going on as if nothing has changed. Its still true, but its relevance is failing fast, but hey, that takes away all the controversy and all you doomsdayers will have to find something else to complain about, gee that'd be a shame.

 

[cmndstab]

Well, let's look at it from another angle. You're never going to "rebuild" a side in one year. If each year you can pick up, say, (and I'm just plucking numbers out of the air here) four good players including one star, you're going to have a damn solid side after half a decade.


Last year, despite making the finals, we still managed to pick up a number of players who look the goods, including potential superstars in Dangerfield and Walker. There is no reason why we can't fill our side with very good players if we keep that up.

Meanwhile, you have to develop the players. We have state of the art training facilities and they're getting an upgrade. We have money to bring in the best people available to maximise what we can get out our players and an extremely competent sports scientist in our coach Neil Craig. You have to manage the talent, something we are getting better at each year.

It is a myth that you can only win a premiership if you fill your side with players from the top few draft picks. The fact that the Crows have done as well as they have the past few years with, let's face it, extremely average lists is a testament to our ability to do better than we should by average.


Also, Crow-Mo, of course changing our recruiting manager makes complaints about our previous drafting irrelevant.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

One concern I have is that there seemed to be a feeling coming from the club that once you make the finals "anything can happen" with 1998 cited as an example. The club has never recognised 97/98 for the fluke that it was. We have never been the best team in the competition and, thus, have no idea about how to go about being the best team in the competition. If you do not finish top two you cannot realistically challenge for a flag.

I'd dispute that. I think we were the best side in '97. Everyone remembers that we finished fourth. What everyone forgets is that we were top after round 19 in what was admittedly a very even competition. We lost a couple of silly games in round 20 and 22, but I reckon we were the best side. If we weren't, we were very close to it.

'98 I'd say we were the second best to North Melbourne, and just knocked them off on the day. We got off to a slow start that season and never gathered a whole lot of momentum until the finals, but at the time our round 21 (I think) match against North was billed as the grand final preview.

Not really relevant to the topic at hand, but the misconception that we were ony the 4th and 5th best side in 97 and 98 really irks me.

 

[Crow-mo]

Yes its true, we've struggled with first round draft picks in the past, a change is made and yet we're still going on as if nothing has changed. Its still true, but its relevance is failing fast, but hey, that takes away all the controversy and all you doomsdayers will have to find something else to complain about, gee that'd be a shame.

relevance is NOT fading fast. that's something you've postulated to try and cover up an inconvenient flaw in your argument. all you're doing is admitting what's missing, and wrong with your position by trying to cover up with rhetoric.

using this very short sighted line of thinking we could change recruiting managers every year to buy the department some time and more credibility.

every mistake would then belong to 'former' regimes.

 

[Crow-mo]

Well, let's look at it from another angle. You're never going to "rebuild" a side in one year. If each year you can pick up, say, (and I'm just plucking numbers out of the air here) four good players including one star, you're going to have a damn solid side after half a decade.

because we exist in a vacuum and every other team is doing jackshit?

Last year, despite making the finals, we still managed to pick up a number of players who look the goods, including potential superstars in Dangerfield and Walker. There is no reason why we can't fill our side with very good players if we keep that up.

and other teams are doing what?

Meanwhile, you have to develop the players. We have state of the art training facilities and they're getting an upgrade. We have money to bring in the best people available to maximise what we can get out our players and an extremely competent sports scientist in our coach Neil Craig. You have to manage the talent, something we are getting better at each year.

yes, and we're the only team with money?

It is a myth that you can only win a premiership if you fill your side with players from the top few draft picks. The fact that the Crows have done as well as they have the past few years with, let's face it, extremely average lists is a testament to our ability to do better than we should by average.

it's not a myth just because you close your eyes, and rock back and forth repeating it to yourself before bed.

in 2005 we were flying hawthorn were getting priority picks...

we stocked our team from the draft, and watched others fly past us in recent years.

the question is not what we do, it is what we do relative to our competition.

Also, Crow-Mo, of course changing our recruiting manager makes complaints about our previous drafting irrelevant.

stupid, stupid thing to say.

 

[Southerntakeover]

we were the best team in the comp in 2005 & 2006. but we ****ed it up.

in 2005 we were flying hawthorn were getting priority picks...

Now, im not really keeping up with this debate, because im bored to tears of hearing the same complaints... I may have gotten the wrong side of this.

Still, people seem to be simultaneously arguing that we both choked in 05/06 and have a recruiting system that is incapable of winning a premiership. The system hasnt changed that much in the last few years, if you acknowledge that we had a premiership capable list, then surely you cant argue that our system is incapable of producing one?