Crows v Eagles

[mr snip]

Its been Interseting reading all the points of view with regards Neil Craig.

In My opinion, you can be the best coach in the world but unless you have the Cattle you are going to struggle to win a premiership. Not only do you need to have a good quality players but you need to have at least 2 maybe 3 players that can turn a game for you or win it off their own boot, in your side.

If you look at the Premiers for the recent period I am sure you will find that each of those teams had 2-3 players that fit that category,

At the moment Neil can coach howhe likes, create the best drilled team, we will still find it almost impossible unless we have 2-3 game breakers in our side.

 

[Riggy1]

Its been Interseting reading all the points of view with regards Neil Craig.

In My opinion, you can be the best coach in the world but unless you have the Cattle you are going to struggle to win a premiership. Not only do you need to have a good quality players but you need to have at least 2 maybe 3 players that can turn a game for you or win it off their own boot, in your side.

If you look at the Premiers for the recent period I am sure you will find that each of those teams had 2-3 players that fit that category,

At the moment Neil can coach howhe likes, create the best drilled team, we will still find it almost impossible unless we have 2-3 game breakers in our side.

Walkers comming whats the problem now

 

[icrow32]

Not sure how a trial game thread ends up with NC analysis but what the hell.....

I think overall, and certainly statistically, he has done very well. Of course the question is his finals decision making. Some poor decisions in the 06 prelim and some poor ones in the 07 elimination. At the end of the day any coach is only as good as his list, and therein lies the Crows biggest problem in recent times..recruiting. So many first round picks blown on chasing the mythical matchwinnning key position player, while the chance to secure so many quality midfielders has been lost.

There is no doubt that we have been rebuilding and to his credit NC has been able to engineer this while still getting us into finals. The make up of the 06 prelim final side is drastically different to what we have now and the turnover has been achieved while remaining in finals. He must receive credit for that. Ask many interstate fans if they would "take" the results we have had over the last 4 years, combined with a rebuild, and Im sure the answer would be yes.

I am sick of th NC lovers claiming that he has "done well" with the list he has. He is in his 5th full year as senior coach, the only person to blame for not having a decent list now is himself. Its only now that he has relaised that so,e risky decisons (ie playing a lot of young players at the same time).

Now people on hear are talking about waiting unitl 2011, what a joke. What was NC and the AFC boys club (sorry Macca) think 2 years ago, what would we need to do to be a premiership chance in 2009?

The most dissappointing thing abut NC is the fact that in each of the 4 years we have made the finals (which in isolation looks good) we exited the finals a week or 2 early each time, not once have we lived up to our potential, eahc year is deemed a failure. All this while practivally no development of young players until mid to late 2007.

2005 and 06 we should have been in a GF and 2007-08 we should have at least got past the first week. IMO if we do not show huge improvement this year he should be sacked. 5 full seasons is plenty of time to get a competitive premiership threatening list together. Wea re one of the rishest clubs and have all the resources available. The only restrictions we have are the people in charge and their capabilities.

It also seems that the AFC are making NC the first 10 year coach ..period, regardless of results. WHich supports MAccas "boys club" claims.

 

[Alex99]

Gary Ayres

His drafting and player development have to be questioned but his coaching wasn't to bad. He wouldn't be a major problem in the overall sceme of things.

Robert Shaw

Unlike Ayres, his coaching was disgracful but he had an eye for talent and drafted accordingly so once again he wouldn't be a huge problem. He played a huge part in the 97 & 98 premierships. He deserves his due recognition for this.

 

[Alex99]

Cringeworthy.

If he's the best I'd hate to know some of the bad things.

I am going to get shot down by some who have this idealistic view on how things should be done and i accept that but the bad part of this club is the culture of never bottoming out. We have to learn how to play the game and accept that getting draft high picks is now part of the game to long term winning. If we want to win a premiership and stay around the top oif the ladder for out due time, we have to be willing to bottom out and rebuild via the draft. Staying in the middle of the pack will not cut it and will only leave us a mediocre club.

Other clubs play the game, we ahve to as well or we will acheive nothing.

 

[CrowHop]

I am sick of th NC lovers claiming that he has "done well" with the list he has. He is in his 5th full year as senior coach, the only person to blame for not having a decent list now is himself. Its only now that he has relaised that so,e risky decisons (ie playing a lot of young players at the same time).

Now people on hear are talking about waiting unitl 2011, what a joke. What was NC and the AFC boys club (sorry Macca) think 2 years ago, what would we need to do to be a premiership chance in 2009?

The most dissappointing thing abut NC is the fact that in each of the 4 years we have made the finals (which in isolation looks good) we exited the finals a week or 2 early each time, not once have we lived up to our potential, eahc year is deemed a failure. All this while practivally no development of young players until mid to late 2007.

2005 and 06 we should have been in a GF and 2007-08 we should have at least got past the first week. IMO if we do not show huge improvement this year he should be sacked. 5 full seasons is plenty of time to get a competitive premiership threatening list together. Wea re one of the rishest clubs and have all the resources available. The only restrictions we have are the people in charge and their capabilities.

It also seems that the AFC are making NC the first 10 year coach ..period, regardless of results. WHich supports MAccas "boys club" claims.

Geez, a lot of stuff in this post I disagree with. I'll reply to some of it.

1) 05 and 06 we should have been in the GF agreed, but we came up short, should NC be blamed for that ? Did we _overachieve_ in those years ? If so, should NC take some of the credit for this ?

2) in 07 we possibly could have got post the Hawks, but we didn't, 08 we got rolled by Collingwood who then got done by St Kilda. 08 the ladder position flattered us somewhat, we were (and are) a long way off being competitive with those in the top 4. No 'should haves' in there I am afraid.

3) NC should be sacked hey ? Well in 05 and 06, we were gunning for a flag so development took a bit of a back seat. Also, considering our ladder positions we were in no position to draft some of the best talent in the country. 07 and 08 were similar, mid table finishes wont get you the elite talent in the country in the following draft. If we were a cellar dwellar team over the last few years I'd expect we would be a lot further advanced with 1) our youth development and 2) draftee quality.

4) The BOYS club quote is ridiculous. Craig has his shortcomings, no doubt about that, but is still a very good coach in his own right. His employment is based on that and nothing else.

Personally I think we need to acknowledge that our squad is not top 4 material. Once we do this, we can then start heading in the right direction to rebuilding the squad. IMO we need to start playing guys who we think can get us back in to the top 4. Ie, who has the right mix of talent, potential and attitude to make it ? I'd suggest guys like, Petrenko, Walker, Dangerfield and Otten need to be given a LOT of game time this year. Ladder position should be irrelevant, the steps we take in getting this fantastic club back to being a powerhouse is very relevant.

Back on topic, IMO, Petrenko, Walker, Otten and Danger need to figure in this weeks game, (and heavily in this NAB cup/pre season) as they are _potentially_ (i hate that word!) our next batch of first 22 players. I'll be p1ssed if I don't see Dangerfield's inclusion.

 

[CrowHop]

I am going to get shot down by some who have this idealistic view on how things should be done and i accept that but the bad part of this club is the culture of never bottoming out. We have to learn how to play the game and accept that getting draft high picks is now part of the game to long term winning. If we want to win a premiership and stay around the top oif the ladder for out due time, we have to be willing to bottom out and rebuild via the draft. Staying in the middle of the pack will not cut it and will only leave us a mediocre club.

Other clubs play the game, we ahve to as well or we will acheive nothing.

I hear what you're saying.

Bottoming out is not what clubs set out to do, moreso it is the result of the process clubs put in place to get a premiership contending list.

The first part of the process is to discard veterans and play a heap of kids. This inevitably leads to some sub standard results because of the inconsistency of youth (known as tanking to some). From this, the low finishes come, then the quality draft picks etc etc, you know how the rest goes.

What I think our club needs to put in place is the first part of the process. Ie, discarding the veterans (already somewhat in motion) and start playing _more_ kids. Whether this translates in to low finishes or not remains to be seen (by recent examples, it probably will), but please please please, lets get some more game time in to our youth. We may be pleasantly surprised by the results (1993 Essendon anyone ?).

 

[CrowHop]

Unlike Ayres, his coaching was disgracful but he had an eye for talent and drafted accordingly so once again he wouldn't be a huge problem. He played a huge part in the 97 & 98 premierships. He deserves his due recognition for this.

Vardy, K Johnson, Edwards, Goodwin, Mcleod etc.

Dont know how much of a role he played in those recruits, but if it were significant, he did a damn fine job.

 

[StonesThrow]

So umm back to the game, is Walker okay for it?

Sorry for disrupting this 'expert' coaching analysis you guys have got going on here.

 

[icrow32]

I hear what you're saying.

Bottoming out is not what clubs set out to do, moreso it is the result of the process clubs put in place to get a premiership contending list.

The first part of the process is to discard veterans and play a heap of kids. This inevitably leads to some sub standard results because of the inconsistency of youth (known as tanking to some). From this, the low finishes come, then the quality draft picks etc etc, you know how the rest goes.

What I think our club needs to put in place is the first part of the process. Ie, discarding the veterans (already somewhat in motion) and start playing _more_ kids. Whether this translates in to low finishes or not remains to be seen (by recent examples, it probably will), but please please please, lets get some more game time in to our youth. We may be pleasantly surprised by the results (1993 Essendon anyone ?).[/quote]

Exactly, everyone assumes, especially NC, that by playing a lot of kids at the same time will automatically prodcue bad results, if they do so be it at least we fast track the players development. On the other hand they might just surprise a few. I just hope NC has the guts to do this. Considering he is still playing guys like Dogga, Shirly, Stevens (nothing against these players but they will not take us to the top of the ladder) etc in the NAB cup it is going to be another year where we finish mid table and take a painfully slow attitude to developing youth... and the 10 year list rejuvination continues with no end in sight.

 

[magtrev]

His drafting and player development have to be questioned but his coaching wasn't to bad. He wouldn't be a major problem in the overall sceme of things.



Unlike Ayres, his coaching was disgracful but he had an eye for talent and drafted accordingly so once again he wouldn't be a huge problem. He played a huge part in the 97 & 98 premierships. He deserves his due recognition for this.

I would agree with most of that, my post was somewhat toungue in cheek. Craig has them both easily covered though.

@ Ayres regime not being a major problem in the geater scheme, I think the gaping hole in our list from 26-30 year old players says otherwise. (no, im not blaming him completely, but he had his role in it)

 

[Paladin]

Exactly, everyone assumes, especially NC, that by playing a lot of kids at the same time will automatically prodcue bad results, if they do so be it at least we fast track the players development. On the other hand they might just surprise a few. I just hope NC has the guts to do this. Considering he is still playing guys like Dogga, Shirly, Stevens (nothing against these players but they will not take us to the top of the ladder) etc in the NAB cup it is going to be another year where we finish mid table and take a painfully slow attitude to developing youth... and the 10 year list rejuvination continues with no end in sight.[/quote]

dont throw Stevens in with Doughty and Shirley please. Stevens is all class, gun player. We need 2 or 3 Stevo's and our problems would be solved.

 

[slippery crow]

I am sick of th NC lovers claiming that he has "done well" with the list he has. He is in his 5th full year as senior coach, the only person to blame for not having a decent list now is himself. Its only now that he has relaised that so,e risky decisons (ie playing a lot of young players at the same time).

Now people on hear are talking about waiting unitl 2011, what a joke. What was NC and the AFC boys club (sorry Macca) think 2 years ago, what would we need to do to be a premiership chance in 2009?

The most dissappointing thing abut NC is the fact that in each of the 4 years we have made the finals (which in isolation looks good) we exited the finals a week or 2 early each time, not once have we lived up to our potential, eahc year is deemed a failure. All this while practivally no development of young players until mid to late 2007.

2005 and 06 we should have been in a GF and 2007-08 we should have at least got past the first week. IMO if we do not show huge improvement this year he should be sacked. 5 full seasons is plenty of time to get a competitive premiership threatening list together. Wea re one of the rishest clubs and have all the resources available. The only restrictions we have are the people in charge and their capabilities.

It also seems that the AFC are making NC the first 10 year coach ..period, regardless of results. WHich supports MAccas "boys club" claims.

I am not a NC lover or Hater

However my unbias position is that NC has got the crows in past seasons punching outside of their weight division, his success in turning a average list into a competitve list is turning into his enemy with supporters.

I ask you, when the season commenced in 2005 where did you expect the crows to finish, most of us thought bottom 8, however we exceeded pre-season expectations, because we missed a GF does this make NC a failure when prior to round 1 we all would of accepted a top 4 finish given our list.

2006 and 2007 we were seriously impacted by injury even if the club will not use it as an excuse.

On Danger, in 2008 NC was heavily criticised with his handling of Walker, IMO this year will prove that NC was correct, and today I read NC explaination why Danger needs more time and it sits comfortably with me.

Like I said, I am not a NC Hater or Lover, however I do believe that NC has had the crows punching above their weight division and this has caused unrealistc expectations and incorrect perceptions.

 

[Mismatched]

So umm back to the game, is Walker okay for it?

Sorry for disrupting this 'expert' coaching analysis you guys have got going on here.

As has been said in many other threads as well as this one I'm sure, and articles in the Advertiser/AdelaideNow and afc.com.au, he is fine and has been all week.

 

[Coopers]

1) 05 and 06 we should have been in the GF agreed, but we came up short, should NC be blamed for that ? Did we _overachieve_ in those years ? If so, should NC take some of the credit for this ?

Clearly we underachieved. We choked in 06, and it's galling.

Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda won a premiership.

That said, NC won me over by taking the side to those heights, it was unexpected.

So he gets credit for both being a brilliant coach and also failing to bring home the '06 premiership.

 

[Tex200]

I am sick of th NC lovers claiming that he has "done well" with the list he has. He is in his 5th full year as senior coach, the only person to blame for not having a decent list now is himself. Its only now that he has relaised that so,e risky decisons (ie playing a lot of young players at the same time).

Now people on hear are talking about waiting unitl 2011, what a joke. What was NC and the AFC boys club (sorry Macca) think 2 years ago, what would we need to do to be a premiership chance in 2009?

The most dissappointing thing abut NC is the fact that in each of the 4 years we have made the finals (which in isolation looks good) we exited the finals a week or 2 early each time, not once have we lived up to our potential, eahc year is deemed a failure. All this while practivally no development of young players until mid to late 2007.

2005 and 06 we should have been in a GF and 2007-08 we should have at least got past the first week. IMO if we do not show huge improvement this year he should be sacked. 5 full seasons is plenty of time to get a competitive premiership threatening list together. Wea re one of the rishest clubs and have all the resources available. The only restrictions we have are the people in charge and their capabilities.

It also seems that the AFC are making NC the first 10 year coach ..period, regardless of results. WHich supports MAccas "boys club" claims.

I think I can fairly say my comments were objective as Im neither a Craig lover or hater. There are 3 realties. Statistcally his minor round record is outstanding. He has a poor major round record which counterbalances. He has some gaping holes in the list.

Someone must take responsibility for the first round disasters of Angwin, Watts, Meesen & Carey. If it was Craig then its his own fault. But anyone who thinks anything other than our list has been seriously damaged by the above decisions is on the wrong tram. We are without 4 quality players ranging from 50-100 games experience who should be leading our side now.

 

[Rise_up_Stiffy]

Sloane nudges out Danger? Turn it up

 

[Mad Fan of AFL]

totally agree...shocking first round decisions by fantasia! Dont give up pick four which was two at the end for a 30 year old player. NEVER! Sellar the jury is still out but not promising

 

[Symesy15]

On Channel 10 when they said Dangerfield isn't playing and how everyone has their opinions then when Craigy was asked what he'd say to people that say "Dangerfield is too good not to play" - bigfooty was the first place that came to mind about "fans having an opinion about Dangerfield". I trust Craigy - I'm hoping he knows what's good for the team and when players are ready and when they're not, so I'm not going to abuse him for not picking Dangerfield, if he feels he's not ready, then that should be good enough, but of course, it isn't good enough for some people.

 

[Drummond]

I have no idea why I've been so positive/trusting of this club over the off season. As soon as selection starts and we hear Craig's thoughts, I get fed up. It's happening all over again.

Can our next coach please be someone with half a clue?

 

[Cap]

I have no idea why I've been so positive/trusting of this club over the off season. As soon as selection starts and we hear Craig's thoughts, I get fed up. It's happening all over again.

Can our next coach please be someone with half a clue?

what Clue do you have the Craig doesn't

 

[Deaneus!]

Statistcally his minor round record is outstanding. He has a poor major round record which counterbalances. He has some gaping holes in the list.

Someone must take responsibility for the first round disasters of Angwin, Watts, Meesen & Carey. If it was Craig then its his own fault. But anyone who thinks anything other than our list has been seriously damaged by the above decisions is on the wrong tram. We are without 4 quality players ranging from 50-100 games experience who should be leading our side now.

The ridiculous thing is, this is so correct that we have to shout it out to all the NC haters every two weeks to remind them.

 

[Deaneus!]

I have no idea why I've been so positive/trusting of this club over the off season. As soon as selection starts and we hear Craig's thoughts, I get fed up. It's happening all over again.

Can our next coach please be someone with half a clue?

I thought you were on drugs or possessed by spirits or you'd been to the therapist and made a "breakthrough". Good to see the old Drum back!

 

[Texas Danger]

There is just the one change to the Adelaide team that was beaten by Geelong in last Saturday's NAB Cup first round match, with Rory Sloane making his debut in Crows colours replacing Aaron Kite.

The 3 players to officially drop out of the revised 26 man squad for tomorrow night's match are Chris Schmidt, Tony Armstrong and Patrick Dangerfield.


Now I don't have exact quotes from Neil Craig but from my interpretation of his comments - Patrick has fully recovered from both his hamstring and whiplash injuries and his attitude is not an apparent issue with his non-selection being a reflection of his performance on the training track and a lack of knowledge of match day tactics.

I also get the feeling we are trying to guard Dangerfield from the enormous expectations placed upon him from our supporters. What I do not understand however is what we possibly have to lose by giving him the opportunity to fast-track his learning in a NAB Challenge game away from the public eye rather than playing in an intra-club match with West Adelaide.

I still don't think we are getting the full story here

Let the flaming continue...

 

[Drummond]

I thought you were on drugs or possessed by spirits or you'd been to the therapist and made a "breakthrough". Good to see the old Drum back!

Great to be back mate. When was the last time Craig made any decisions that made sense or were successful?

• Why the heck isn’t Tony Armstrong in the side? Best vs the All-Stars, missed the next week due to injury I believe but he’s fit again as he was named in the squad but has missed out. Wouldn’t you pick youngsters who are looking good on the track and have performed in the little game situations we’ve had thus far? It’s mind boggling that Sloane can make the side before Armstrong, Sloane? He looked completely and utterly out of his depth in the AS game while Armstrong stood out. And yet the former is in and the latter is out.

• Why isn’t Chris Schmidt playing? Missed last week and misses again this week despite making the initial squad on both occasions. He’s only young but he’s older and has a more mature body than most of the other youngsters. He’s on the rookie list, there is a vacancy and surely we should be giving him an opportunity to prove whether he’s good enough to be elevated. How will we know unless we give him a go?

• Dangerfield not playing once again is just ludicrous. The good old training form cliché comes out again from Sir Neil. “I’m looking for a slightly improved performance on the training track". Goodness me, he makes me sick.