Crows vs. Demons - Match Talk

[Crow-mo]

There are four real measures of how well the club is managing to do this.. the number of players making their debut, how many games these kids are getting, how many minutes of actual gametime the kids get when they do play (impossible to find unless you have access to Champion Data which I don't) and lastly the number of rising star nominations.

if we accept these 4 measures as fact, then your post makes a lot of sense. you see the issue though, right?

you've not mentioned amongst other things: role, strings of games in a row, physical readiness etc. all of which are at least as important the above - and the rising star thing is just a nonsense.

 

[Crow-mo]

Ahh, progress! I thought you had previously said that my point of view was ridiculous and ill-thought out. Now you are at least acknowledging that some successful, intelligent people have adopted this approach.

YOUR point of view is incomplete, illthought & ridiculous

 

[Southerntakeover]

With our aging list, it is imperative that we introduce the youngsters into the side and give them experience before the more senior players depart the scene.

There are four real measures of how well the club is managing to do this.. the number of players making their debut, how many games these kids are getting, how many minutes of actual gametime the kids get when they do play (impossible to find unless you have access to Champion Data which I don't) and lastly the number of rising star nominations.

For what it's worth..

In 2004 we did extremely well in this regard. We "blooded" four players, two of whom have proven successful, one a sooky-la-la, whilst the other remains on our list purely by virtue of possessing pornographic images of the AFC management. We also had one player earn a Rising Star nomination (Reilly), the only one since 2000.

In 2005 we did poorly, as Neil Craig has admitted. We blooded only two players - Van Berlo & Knights. VB played every game in 2006 for which he was available (missed some due to a broken collarbone), while Knights remains somewhat enigmatic.

In 2006 we did better. Once again four more players were blooded, with three of the four set to become fixtures of the team in 2007 (the jury is still out on Vince who has yet to appear in the Mickey Mouse competition this year).

What can we expect in 2007? Hopefully Knights & Douglas will become established as regulars in the side, elevated above more senior but somewhat mediocre players ahead of them (Doughty, Bode I'm looking at you). Hopefully, we will see at least four more debutants - no doubt headed by Griffin who is almost certain to debut in round 1.

It is very disappointing that Adelaide have only had one Rising Star nomination in the past 6 years. That's three less than the next least productive team. This tells me that one of three things is happening:

• Our kids aren't getting enough opportunities.
• Our kids aren't getting enough gametime when they do play.
• Our kids aren't performing well enough to earn a selection.

Of the 10 debutants we've had over the past three years, only one has done enough to warrant a Rising Star nomination - Porplyzia, who was ineligible due to his age.

VB frequently does the courageous and looks to be a great leader, but he's never picked up more than 15 possessions in a game.

Knights has never had sufficient gametime to earn a nomination. He gets plenty of the ball (Adelaide's leading ball winner on a disposal-per-minute basis) but he didn't spend enough time on the ground to impress the judges.

Hudson was too old and didn't do enough to warrant a nomination in his first year (though his 2005 was outstanding).

None of the remainder did anything to warrant a nomination whilst they were still eligible either.

Hopefully, this year we will see some nominations. In particular, I would be disappointed if Douglas does not get a nod.

Do you believe theres no middle ground between senior players and Rookies? A number of player debuts is a misleading way to analyse the turn over of players in a team. What about young players we've traded for? Other players who have reinvented themselves?

Please... the Rising Star nominations are meaningless. The Crows will continue not to earn them, because we will not throw a young player to the wolves, and give them the majority of the game. We will continue with our measured approach to young players.

 

[Vader]

Do you believe theres no middle ground between senior players and Rookies? A number of player debuts is a misleading way to analyse the turn over of players in a team. What about young players we've traded for? Other players who have reinvented themselves?

Please... the Rising Star nominations are meaningless. The Crows will continue not to earn them, because we will not throw a young player to the wolves, and give them the majority of the game. We will continue with our measured approach to young players.

When it comes to Adelaide's list, there really IS very little between the senior players and the rookies.

A large part of our problem stems from a dearth of decent draft selections during the period from 1999-2003 inclusive. The lack of quality in our drafting during this period means that our list is top heavy in quality at the older end of the spectrum (age 28+) and lower end of the spectrum (21 and younger) but with very little in between.

The likes of Mattner, Doughty, Bode and Shirley, whilst capable footsoldiers, will never be able to take over the roles played by Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod. Put simply, they're not fit to tie their shoelaces. When our fab-four depart, it will have to be the likes of Douglas, Knights, Van Berlo and (maybe) Mackay who take their place as Adelaide's "star" midfielders.

And what young players have we traded for recently? The only trade since Craig's appointment, which resulted in a player coming to Adelaide, was Stenglein's departure which resulted in Thompson coming to the Crows.

I may be the only one here on this board who thinks this way, but I do NOT regard the Rising Star award as being meaningless. I will agree that most of the late season nominations go to lesser players, but each player who receives a nomination has been a standout in at least one game - doing enough to recommend them above all the other young players making their way in the game. Whether or not they can do that consistently enough to forge a successful career in the AFL is another matter, but they have shown something at least once. I think that the fact we've only had one nomination since 2000, during which time every other team has had at least four, is a valid pointer to the fact that something is wrong in the way we handle our youngsters.

 

[- PC -]

The likes of Mattner, Doughty, Bode and Shirley, whilst capable footsoldiers, will never be able to take over the roles played by Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod. Put simply, they're not fit to tie their shoelaces. When our fab-four depart, it will have to be the likes of Douglas, Knights, Van Berlo and (maybe) Mackay who take their place as Adelaide's "star" midfielders.

.

Grrr... who will replace Brisbanes Lion hearted midfield? Who will fly as high as the Eagles midfield? The players you mentioned and the midfields I mentioned are once in 10 year midfields where everything came together. Dont put anyone else down by using comparison

 

[fightingdreamer88]

Gary Ayers' reign as coach lost us a lot of opportunities to grab quality youngsters. I don't know if he or some of the coaching staff around him were to blame, but we just didn't recruit that strongly over that period imo. Since Craigy has taken over I feel we've been getting a lot of seriously talented guys, it's perhaps the most solid recruiting phase we've ever had at the club. We're also fortunate in that our older players are still in great condition, so all things going to plan our brigade of talent will be fast-tracked a little more.

On the subject of rising star nominations, our even style of footy is not often conducive to a lot of standout individual performances (especially from the youngsters). Sure Goodwin, Mcleod, Thompson and Edwards will often be towards the top of the possession counts but we play in such a way that we get a very even contribution from all players (this is the most effective type of footy imo). Porplyzia and Douglas did some great things at times last season but they were just slotting in, doing their jobs and playing within the system like everyone else. The rising star judges look for a clear standout youngster, but our side just isn't tailored to rely on single performances like that. I'm not surprised that we don't get as many rising star nominations as most other clubs.

 

[Crow-mo]

The likes of Mattner, Doughty, Bode and Shirley, whilst capable footsoldiers, will never be able to take over the roles played by Ricciuto, Goodwin, Edwards and McLeod.

but do they need to?

I may be the only one here on this board who thinks this way, but I do NOT regard the Rising Star award as being meaningless. I will agree that most of the late season nominations go to lesser players, but each player who receives a nomination has been a standout in at least one game - doing enough to recommend them above all the other young players making their way in the game.

If you think about this some more, you might see that the RS does not mean anything like what you suggest. the nominations go to a player who has accumulated some possession - irrespective of actual worth or contribution.
it's 17 flavours of nothing.

 

[Crow Envy]

Grrr... who will replace Brisbanes Lion hearted midfield? Who will fly as high as the Eagles midfield? The players you mentioned and the midfields I mentioned are once in 10 year midfields where everything came together. Dont put anyone else down by using comparison

The lions seems to have some good youngsters coming on Adcock, Sherman and excuse the spelling Riccatelli?

When it comes to the Eagles midfield, they dont need to replace it for about another 8-10 years and they have butler, waters, hurn, rosa and priddis as back up now.

We do need Knights, Douglas and Van Berlo to develop into guns and sooner rather than later otherwise we will be in strife as our middle age midfielders are servicable but not match winners.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I may be the only one here on this board who thinks this way, but I do NOT regard the Rising Star award as being meaningless. I will agree that most of the late season nominations go to lesser players, but each player who receives a nomination has been a standout in at least one game - doing enough to recommend them above all the other young players making their way in the game. Whether or not they can do that consistently enough to forge a successful career in the AFL is another matter, but they have shown something at least once. I think that the fact we've only had one nomination since 2000, during which time every other team has had at least four, is a valid pointer to the fact that something is wrong in the way we handle our youngsters.

David Gallagher Board

 

[Cap]

I may be the only one here on this board who thinks this way, but I do NOT regard the Rising Star award as being meaningless. I will agree that most of the late season nominations go to lesser players, but each player who receives a nomination has been a standout in at least one game - doing enough to recommend them above all the other young players making their way in the game. Whether or not they can do that consistently enough to forge a successful career in the AFL is another matter, but they have shown something at least once. I think that the fact we've only had one nomination since 2000, during which time every other team has had at least four, is a valid pointer to the fact that something is wrong in the way we handle our youngsters.

Pretty sure you've got one or two friends

except at the end of the season - whichever team wins starts telling us how important it is