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Longjohn

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Have a look at the forum on www.lions.com.au, they are still complaining about the umpires, channel 7 bias, Black falling on his eye, having to play a semi-final against the team that finished 2nd on the MCG on a Friday night, players being undisciplined and getting reported during the finals. They are the biggest pack of whingers I have ever heard.

I love it when the Kangaroos beat Brisbane, I think it's Noel Gordon, even though he has gone, he will never be forgotten. "Who is smiling now, Noel."
 
Id suggest going to the North forum, but that would mean North would have to afford a website, and would need fans to be able to contribute to a fans forum. No point really.
 
I just went to that forum, John. What are you talking about.Looked like good healthy debate, nothing about Black or umpires for what I saw.
We all complain about Channel 7.
I was at the match when Black ' fell ' on his eye.All I can say is the person who did it, is very lucky Black got his sight back.Enough said.
John, good to see North are still in debt, and will play anywhere out of Melbourne for the money.
On the AFL site today is an article about cashed up Southport club on the Gold Coast, maybe they will be the Southport ROOS.
Go the mighty Bombers.
 

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It *was* naughty of Simon Black to headbutt "a certain bald fullback's" fist with his eye socket, wasn't it?

Of course, if North had a forum on their <chuckle> website, there would be plenty of scope for both of their supporters to spill their guts over all manner of injustices that have been bestowed upon the Shinboners...like having to relocate to Canberra, er Sydney, er Gold Coast, er would you believe, Cairns?

Oh well, enjoy your success while it lasts, cos no. 18 can't go on forever...
 
Its not just the Lions..the bomber supporters have been whining, crying, wanting a reward for finishing top..get real.
The finals sort out the men from the boys and
the bomber supporters have spat the dummy bigtime.As a North supporter the only misgiving about last years finals was that it was Carlton instead of North who put Essendon out of their misery..to see the bomber supporters faces and hear the excuses.. North were robbed of their chance
to silence the soft marshmallow bombers and their equally soft brain dead supporters.
Never mind.. to still see them whining and crying about last year makes the Roos victory even sweeter and the taste of success last longer.
 
I'm not a North fan but as a Victorian I must
say it really shits me how some supporters of
non Victorian clubs that are bumpted up by
the AFL (salary cap concessions, money etc)
continuously deride clubs that achieve
success through dedication, good management
and sheer hard work.

As far as I'm concerned, North's attempt to
broaden their supporter base and ensure long
term survival is to be commended. How many
other clubs, in a similar position, would
have achieved the same results?

I think it's very arrogant of Lions fans in
particular to make snide comments. They sit
back secure in the knowledge that Uncle Wayne
will provide handouts as required should
club administrators make a mess of the clubs finances; should they (God forbid) lose an uncontracted player.

As for Friday's game, I did notice that the
commentators seemed barracking for North -
but it was mainly in the last quarter when
they were making a comeback after being 25
points down. I also noticed that they
spent a fair bit commenting on the new guns for Brisbane (Black, Power, Bradshaw). AND I
noticed that Brisbane managed at least three
goals courtesy of dodgy frees from umpires.

Go the Dons!!!
 
I agree with you LongJohn, I too am sick and tired of whinging Lions and Bombers supporters. They can put the Kangaroos down as much as they like, but they also forget we are a winning team, and we do have The King, which are two things that they don't have but wish they did.
 
Here's an idea. I wonder why North Fans have such a high opinion of themselves and their "king". They - unlike other clubs - seem intent on searching out criticism of their club. Maybe it is another one of those media induced things, which wouldn't surpise me after the "if Carey can't do it, it can't be done" bull I head on Footy Feeback tonight.

As a Blues supporter, I can honestly say that if, and I do say if, those comments are on their site - and I couldn't find them mind you - they have every right to be there.

Wake up Long Jon - your "team" deserve everything said about them after the way the prelim was played.
 
It doesn't matter who the top team is, they should be rewarded.

The Finals are often flat affairs. The 1999 GF was one of the worst games of the year. North played very averagly, and the only reason they won, was becasue they were playing Carlton, a team who they couldn't even outscore in scoring shot (29 each)

I think the finals seperating the "men from the boys' as you put it is a MYTH. Grand Finals are often tame affairs not reflective of EITHER clubs ability.

Most Grand Finals don't live up to the hype. You know this, everyone knows it. it's often a crap game, not reflective of either clubs ability.

Oh sure, we care about winning the GF becasue of the recognition associated with it, but we would ALSO care about winning the "home and away" championship if that was given more recognition (it isn't given any recognition at the moment)

The best team of the year is found over 6 months, not 2 hours.

I think North Should have been awarded the "home and away" premiership in 1998, after finishing above 15 teams over 22 gruelling weeks. Peaking over 22 weeks, is an enourmous effort, being able to consistently perform at your best over the whole seaosn, rather than over three weeks like Adelaide did.

You often hear soccer fans say how thet would rather win the premiership (finishing top) than the FA Cup. The reason is becasue a 6 month season seperates the men from the boys, and proves who the best tream is. You have to consistently play well, and PEAK over the whole 6 months. You can't afford many flat spots becasue someone will get top spot off you.

Oh sure, top spot is not given as much recognition in Aussie Rules, but that;s not the point. It's still just as hard to win as in soccer. Just becasue it's not recognised, doesn't make the actual acheivement any less, does it. It's still the hardest thing to accomplish. Ask any soccer fan. Winning the FA CUP is very similar to winning the GF in that you have to perform under pressure ON THE DAY< but is given NO WHERE NEAR as much recognition as the premiership (for finishing on top ovf EVERYONE after 6 months)

It's got nothing to do with soccer either. It could be any sport that recognises it's winners this way. it could be Volleyball, or lawan bowls for all I care. The sport itself is irrelevant.

Top spot, should be given more recognition. It's as simple as that.

Home and away games often provide better games than finals which rarely live up to the hype. Oh sure, SOME finals do, but they are hardly ever reflective of how good a team has been over 6 months.

Is the FA Cup winner declared champins of the whole season ? NO !!! They are the champions of the FA Cup tournamnet. That's all.

North should have been H & A premiers in 1998, while Adelaide should have been declared finals series champions. Why the hell were Adelaide declared premiers of the WHLOLE season ?? What the hell has their performance in ONE math got to do with their performance over 22 rounds where the BEST are seperated from the rest ?

Oh sure, they deserve recognition for besting North on the day in 1998. I'll be the first to give them recognition. But that recognition shoiuld only carry as far as the 4 week finals series.

Then you still have to perform ON THE DAY, barney. You still have to win ON THE DAY. Nothing changes. Thatwill keep you happy. North are still premiers in 1999. But pemiers OFG THE 4 WEEK FINALS SERIES.

Simply the best team over 22 rounds (North in 1998, St.Kilda in 1997, Sydney in 1996, Carlton in 1995, WCE in 1994), get rewarded for being the BEST over 22 rounds, AND THEN the winner of the finals series gets rewarded for winning the GF.

I love the GF, by the way.

Top spot deserves more recognition, because it is the hardest thing to acheive. Ask any coach. They've all been saying it recently. Pagan, especially, and also Matthews, Parkin, Sheedy, and Blight was a huge advocate too
 
Interestingly enough, if you look at the 2 teams who won the two TEAM trophys that there are avaliable to win in 1999 (Essendon and The Kangaroos), it would have been interesting had they met in the GF.

The McClelland Trophy winners, Essendon, who were the best over 22 rounds (and not recognised for it), would have started favourite against the Roos, who of course eventually won the Cup by beating Carlton.

I think in 1996, North Melbourne would have MURDERED Essendon (I go for the Bombers by the way), if the two teams had met in the GF. This was nearly the case as the Bombers were one point away from the GF in 1996. North would have killed Essendon.

However, having won the McClelland trophy in 1999, and watching Norths flat performance against Carlton in the GF, Essendon would have most likely beaten the Kangaroos easilyin 1999.

North were not as strong as they were in 1998, and 1996. In fact in 1999, the Roos only had a percentage of 115 !!! That's right, for every 100 points their opposition scored, the Roos only scored 115 themselves. Not exaclty a great percentage is it !

Essendon would have won the GF had they made it (like I said they would have got thrashed in 1996), and the Bombers may just a chance to prove a point in the Ansett Cup Grand Final !. You never know.

Essendon beat the Roos by 26 poijts despite Carey kicking 10. What would they have done to the Roos in the GF, with Carey perhaps not fully fit, after watching them play only mediocre against Carlton. It probably would have been yet another one sided Grand Final.

Still, it's history. And history will havr the Bombers as McClelland trophy winners in 1999 and the Roos as Grand Final victors. Nothing can change that.

It's jusrt a pity the two clubs didbn't meet, so we could see what would have REALLY happened !
 
Hey Barney,
I seem to remember two games last year when North where unable to beat Essendon. Seems to me a bit presumtous to assume that they would have beaten them in the GF.
 

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Finals are a different game lewie.. i dont remember anyone giving carlton much hope against the bombers either...funny game football.No such thing as a sure bet in footy
past results count for nothing.
 
sarah,

we need to talk.

It would be fair to say that the lions have had certain concessions granted to them that may seem on the surface, somewhat unfair, however when you look into them a little more they are quite founded.

Even if they weren't you have a short memory. Fitzroy and the Bears merged in 96 before that the FFC were treated very poorly by the AFL eg. sponsor deal with galaxy stopped, proposed games interstate were halted and they are other examples where the AFL turned it's back on a foundation member of the VFL for the good of the game interstate.

Now if the Lions appear to be treated favourably it's well overdue. It is a pity that Prof Oakley didn't do it earlier.

If it makes a little easier Sarah, try to remember that there is a significant part of Victoria (FFC) in the Brisbane Lions.

(If you would like examples of how this club is trying to preserve the history & tradition of this club please let me know)
 
Barney.

Actualy, the thing is the finals are not really much of a different game at all. There is an old saying which I'n sure youve heard. It says, "The Grand Final is just a game of footy"

The GF gets a lot of hype, thats all. Hype make people respond to it more. It makes people think the actual acheivement of winning is greater than anything. If it wasn't given that much hype, and recognition, you wouldn't want to win it as much as you currently do. The acheivement of winning the GF has never ever matched the recognition given to it. Invariably the best game of the years is a home and away match. In 1999, the best game was Ess v North in Round 17. One of the greatest games of all time.

Teams give 100 percent every game. What, do you think players don't try, deliberately, so they can "lift" in the finals. There a number of home and away games, where the coach could not have asked ANY more from his players, even if it were a final.

Many final are lacklustre. Many are great, sure, but many are dull, and lack intensity. The GF in 1999 was dull, and lacked pressure. Hardly, the environment to find the years best team.

The years best team is found oer 6 months not two hours.

But if you perform in the finals you should get credit, I agree.

But if you win in the finals, you should be the premiers JUST of the finals. Its a bit stupid for Adelaide, when they beat the Roos in 1998 to be the premiers of the ENTIRE year. All they won was a 4 week tournament ! They should have been final series premiers, while the Roos, who were the best team over 6 months, should be declared home and away premeirs in 1998

BOTH those two great clubs in 1998 should have got recognition. The Roos for winning a 22 week season, and the Crows for winning a 4 week tournament.
 
If you wanna see how great we are treated by the AFl and tv coverage, become a Lions fan, and an insommniac in one, as all our games,have been shown at 11.45 in the evening. Yay for us.
Anyway, Carey can count himself lucky Brucie put in a few good words about the King, cause If justie had its way, hed be kicking a footy in his 2x10 cell with Big Bubba.Two sexual assualt charges and he still gets off.
 
I think both Port and Crows fans will testify, that we also get a pretty shit deal from 7 in Adelaide. Apart from being subjected to the lousy mike work of Dribbling Drew Morphett, and that intellectual barnstormer Neil Kerley, we are more often than not subjected to delayed telecasts as well. Not as late as you, but still not live! ;( so don't feel too bad.

As for that ugly/bald full back for North, he was lucky not get pinged, but it's not the first time. In 1998, he was let off for swinging at the 'ball' in a marking contest. Unfotunately Keatings helmeted head was in the way and his jaw was shattered. Keating was never the same man after that day.

Now I ask you, most full backs/defenders punch forward to deflect the ball out of there opponents hand and spoil don't they? Mick Martyn swung that day in a sideways roundhouse motion. Hmmmm. You be the judge. If you can remember the game, it was the one Rehn was pinged on the boundary for holding the ball. Great game that, even if we lost. Nevertheless 'Baldy' is a dirty bum.
 
Just remember Sarah, that the interstate clubs play a large part in keeping the league and it's struggling Victorian teams alive. (Gate reciepts, merchandise, entry fees...)
Sydney and Brisbane are getting a few concessions now, (no other interstate teams are though), but they are the future of the AFL. All the special deals they get, and threre's really not that many, will help establish good clubs with strong supporter bases and excellent facilities.
The introduction of interstate teams has already managed to 'rescue' traditional clubs from extiction (or merger as the AFL call it).
 
Eagle_fan

There is a well known anomaly in that the majority of 'big' sponsorship money goes to the interstate teams. This is so they can have plenty of signage on television transmission.

Now the main target audience for this signage is the melbourne TV viewers, the Biggest AFL TV market. Ironically they are not tuning in to see adelaide or west coast or sydney, but their team playing away.

AFL rules probably equalise this money up, to correct any 'artificial' bias.

So please don't claim your interstate clubs are carrying the rest of the AFL. The truth is all clubs need each other.
Imagine if the old VFL clubs pulled out and left one or two "merger teams" in the AFL. then played a VFL style competition. Both leagues would be much worse off but the 'AFL' would suffer more.

Or divide the 16 teams into two conferences (IS teams plus bulldogs and Roos in one, Traditional VFL clubs in the other) the winner play off in the grand final. It just wouldn't happen
 
I live in Melbourne. Until Victorian fans accept that it is now the AFL and not the VFL, the competition is doomed.
They dont become members of their teams, thus the teams struggle finanacially. The AFL dividends given to all the clubs, include revenvue from interstate tv rights.
I am and old Bear, now a proud Lions fan.
Try living here to be ridiculed for supporting an interestate team.These people are truly silly,
From discussions with close friends I believe that their are a few Melbourne based teams who face grave immediate futures.
As for 2 separate comps. Maybe the melbourne based supporters would love to have all Melbourne teams in one, and all the rest in the other, including new Tassie and a new Sydney or Qld team.
Problem with that is that, the finanical windfall from tv rights to these Melbourne teams would dry up.Then they would be in a worse mess financially.
I can only see that their will be a few teams lost in the next few years.That the financially strong clubs will survive.eg, Carlton, Adelaide, West Coast, Fremantle, Essendon.Some of the others will be in real strife eg North, Doggies, Brisbane,St Kilda., all are struggling financially.The bottom line will win in the end, always does.
 
geez...........
Firstly, exactly WHICH whinging essendon fans are you talking about barney ??? (apart from Dan24, but he dosent represent the majority of bomber fans)- we lost the damn pre-lim fair and square, and theres no 2nd chances- I, and most bomber fans realise this. What can we whinge about ???? The only ones to blame are the players. there is no conspiracy or umpires or AFL tampering. we lost it. end of story.

To eagle fan- saying no other inter state clubs are getting concessions. Isnt that exactly how the eagles won 2 flags ??? By getting to basically pick any players from a whole state beofre anyone else gets a shot. You end up with this "maginificent 7" crap- that WILL never occur again, because of "proper" draft rules which are now in place.

And as for north melbourne, that team without doubt (and i noticed this because i have a mate who is a huge north fan and he agreed with me)- gets the most "non calls" from umps, than any other side. When i say non calls, i mean the umps will let play continue for north where, any other side would get pulled up. They get away with murder on the field- the sort of things that other teams routinely get free kicks paid against them for. I noticed this last year, and have been reminded again in the ansett game i saw, how the umps choke on thier whistles for north. At first i thought i was imagining it- but what is "undisciplined" by another team is just "hard at the footy stuff" by north. watch 'em and see.........
 
I'm not sggesting splitting the competition, as I think it is great as it is (I wish the AFL agreed)

I'm just sayinf if there was an interstate 'conference' or something like that then nobody in Victoria would want to watch Adelaide v West coast or fremantle v anybody. Victoria is the biggest TV market but most of the games come from interstate. There is BIG sponsorship for interstate teams in order to get signage at the grounds. Ironically the sponsorship money goes to eagles etc but the 'audience' supports the VIC teams that are playing there.
 
Greta, Brisbane may not get the TV coverage
but they sure as hell get everything else!

Regarding your reference to Carey's
sexual assult charges, my understanding is
he was charged with one instance of something that amounted to 'groping'
(an unforgivably disgusting action, I grant you).

I believe the second "sexual assult" allegation involved a BRISBANE player if my memory serves me rightly.

Little bit like the pot calling the kettle
black, hmmmm...
 

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